Pre Grouping fan Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 I read the number of the van in the photo at Toton as 55037 which put it in series with the LSWR ones. I have very limited knowledge of brake vans so can't go much further. It looks to me like the route restriction plate/lettering has been removed/painted over as the body looks clean in that area. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted December 31, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 55037 was a diagram 1543 van and therefore correct. Some records suggest a withdrawal date of c1963 and was apparently one of the last two in service. Sightings include Templecombe in 1961 and a repair at Eastleigh in 1962. ( Info courtesy of Mike King- Southern Wagons Pictorial-OPC) Ex Midland 2f 58173 was a Toton loco and was still there in September 1959. Rob. Edited December 31, 2019 by NHY 581 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 17 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said: I read the number of the van in the photo at Toton as 55037 which put it in series with the LSWR ones. I have very limited knowledge of brake vans so can't go much further. It looks to me like the route restriction plate/lettering has been removed/painted over as the body looks clean in that area. S55012, page 22 of "British Railway Wagons No.5 Cattle & Brake Vans"(1), also has no route restriction plate. Location is stated as Wadebridge, June 1959 and it has the fateful COND painted on it . S55045 on page 90 of "The Acquired Wagons of "British Railways Volume 1 Fleet Composition and Brake Vans" does have such a plate although its wording is illegible and the location etc of the photo is not stated. Might have been useful if Hornby had not printed the plate on the wagon so giving an option to use or not the supplied etch plates. (1) G Gamble, Chenoa Publications 1997 ISBN 1 900298 05 8 (2) David Larkin, Crecy Publishing 2018 ISBN 9780860936824 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Picture shows my Hornby LSWR brake van and a Bachmann brake van that I repainted earlier showing the difference in the brown colour. The Hornby LSWR brake vans have sold well in the Swanage Railway shop and the grey ones have sold out so the milk chocolate shade of the LSWR and SR versions has not deterred people from buying them. They are £5 cheaper than the Bachmann SR pillbox brake van which is the correct colour. There is a drawing of LSWR brake van number 10318 on page 56 of HMRS Livery Register no.3 LSWR and Southern published by the Historical Model Railway Society which shows where the restriction notice was fixed by the Southern Railway. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Another photos found of S55037 stated to be at Guildford June 1960 "Wagons of the Southern 9 More LSWR brake vans", Terry Gough, Railway Modeller July 1971 (article also includes a drawing of the type) - again no route restriction plate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opelsi Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 My 'milk chocolate' SR van went back for refund yesterday as I prefer 'plain chocolate' - funny how modelling mirrors real life - lol We might of course be pleasantly surprised if a subsequent version/release by the Big H is produced in darker form - here is hoping! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinTrucks Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 4 hours ago, Opelsi said: My 'milk chocolate' SR van went back for refund yesterday as I prefer 'plain chocolate' - funny how modelling mirrors real life - lol We might of course be pleasantly surprised if a subsequent version/release by the Big H is produced in darker form - here is hoping! One lives in hope! Happy New Year! Martin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFSmith Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 My 'milk chocolate' van is going back as well. When I saw the pre production photos I assumed the colour would be corrected. Must pay more attention in future. With regard to the 'Not to work....' plate. It appears on a picture of 55009 on page 63 of Southern Wagons vol 1. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Turning over the page to page 64 of Southern Wagons is a picture of S55039 on plate 107 with the St Leonards board above the handrail on the left side. This is the same position as in the drawing on page 56 of HMRS Livery Register no. 3 LSWR and Southern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2020 The placing of the route restriction boards seems to have varied somewhat on the prototypes. On the BR versions of the model they are printed in different places on either side. Incidentally, should my grey one include a set of boards to stick over them, or do they just come with the SR livery? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 The grey one should have a set of boards to stick over the printed ones. These were in the gap in the plastic packaging where you open it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said: The grey one should have a set of boards to stick over the printed ones. These were in the gap in the plastic packaging where you open it. Thanks, mine must have fallen out without me noticing. Finding them should take care of this evening. First job is to remember where I was standing when I opened the box.... John Edited January 2, 2020 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Mine turned up today, (quick dispatch by Gaugemaster). Runs very freely, no droop with the couplings. A few years ago, the prospect of being able to buy stock like this off the shelf would have seemed very unlikely - so good for Hornby! 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymx5 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Disappointing that the colour is so wrong. I looked at one on a layout at the FROME exhibition today and it just looks wrong. Especially if it is next to a correctly coloured LSWR wagon ( of which I have several). Yes of course one can repaint and reletter but my natural meanness makes me reluctant. So I think I will hang on a while and see what Hornby do It’s not as if I don’t already have an LSWR brakevan but I was expecting Hornby would do better than my 1970s effort 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, barrymx5 said: It’s not as if I don’t already have an LSWR brakevan but I was expecting Hornby would do better than my 1970s effort Is that a etched brass body - I picked one made up cheap at a toy fair some years ago but it had a very thin roof that eventually took offence at being handled and the whole body collapsed in on itself. It went in the box of "things to sort out" and may now never reappear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I can only console my disappointment in the LSWR/SR color by reminding myself that had Cambrian made their promised Diagram 1543 kit, I would have had to paint it. My pair are still somewhere in a container perhaps on the high seas. Has anyone attempted dismantle sufficiently to repaint? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymx5 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 8 hours ago, Butler Henderson said: Is that a etched brass body - I picked one made up cheap at a toy fair some years ago but it had a very thin roof that eventually took offence at being handled and the whole body collapsed in on itself. It went in the box of "things to sort out" and may now never reappear No it’s plasticard with wire. The main problem was with transfers: I could only find post grouping so had to make my own L and W to try and match the S and R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 12 hours ago, autocoach said: I can only console my disappointment in the LSWR/SR color by reminding myself that had Cambrian made their promised Diagram 1543 kit, I would have had to paint it. My pair are still somewhere in a container perhaps on the high seas. Has anyone attempted dismantle sufficiently to repaint? Good morning Ken, This is the trio I've had for review in BRM.................. Undo four screws in the chassis, and the body comes off with ease. Then gently lift the floor out from the body (revealing a full interior - including the sanding-operating lever!). The only problem with repainting might be the flush-glazing (unless brush-painting is undertaken). These are very fine models, but the issue of the colour of the LSWR and SR versions is a problem. Regards, Tony. 3 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Ken, This is the trio I've had for review in BRM.................. Undo four screws in the chassis, and the body comes off with ease. Then gently lift the floor out from the body (revealing a full interior - including the sanding-operating lever!). The only problem with repainting might be the flush-glazing (unless brush-painting is undertaken). These are very fine models, but the issue of the colour of the LSWR and SR versions is a problem. Regards, Tony. ........ and - one thing I'd not spotted before - the solebars should be body colour on the LSWR & SR vans ( like virtually all wagons else before nationalisation ) .... let's hope Hornby can get them in Bourneville brown too ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 My vans have come over the ocean. They arrived this morning and I can now say they are a wonderful recreation of the LSWR/SR Diagram 1543. It would be a pity to have to paint out the fine printing on the solebar so I may leave it black but matted a bit more. As my two vans will be re-painted at some point in time I couldn't resist a little advance messing with the lettering to give them a home on my new layout: 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 The 2020 announcements feature more seemingly milk chocolate brake vans yet there is a LSWR open wagon clearly in a darker brown colour - will the lightbulb go on at Margate or will it need a great big hammer 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Butler Henderson said: The 2020 announcements feature more seemingly milk chocolate brake vans yet there is a LSWR open wagon clearly in a darker brown colour - will the lightbulb go on at Margate or will it need a great big hammer Yes it does seem odd that they are producing their generic 3 plank in correct shade of brown but the actual LSWR brake van is incorrect. I have cancelled mine and will wait for the Kernow one instead. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) In the HMRS Livery Register no.3 LSWR and Southern book, as referred to by Robin Brasher above, goods rolling stock for the later LSWR period, roughly 1905 to grouping, wagon brown colour is described as the following: (on P.44) Dark Brown dark brown weathering to a terra cotta shade dark umber brown with black underframes and white letters Very dark umber Dark greyish yellowish brown Dark greyish brown Take your choice! I'm confused about what the main body colour should be. Terra cotta seems closest to the Hornby model. The ends are described in the book as "dull red" so that looks ok. There is a recipe for "dark brown" given. quaker green in oil 2lb 2oz purple brown in oil 6 0z Orange chrome yellow 1/2 oz Drop of black in oil 1/2 oz There are several references for that including records held by BR SR at Eastleigh. Suppose one could mix one's own colour.... Edited January 7, 2020 by railroadbill 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Careful with that word "underfame" ....... I think it's generally accepted as meaning solebars & headstocks downwards - but sometimes you see descriptions implying that the 'frame' members are painted body colour and "the underfame black", implying black below the solebars & headstocks ( literally, under the frame ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Back in the day, well quite a few days ago, must have been late 70s early 80s, I made some ABS LSWR wagons ( the type with rounded ends) in O gauge. They ended up running on a friend's coarse scale layout. Because I tend not to throw things away (just in case like) I've found the paint I used. Humbrol Authentic Colour enamel, (remember that?) It's HR 142 wagon brown, a mid chocolate brown with perhaps just a touch of red. It's a bit lighter than GWR chocolate brown, and was allegedly right for LSWR. I've just taken the lid off and the paint is still liquid and stirred up well, even after perhaps 40 years! H'mm maybe it could still be ok for a couple of LSWR wagons to go with the brake van.... Current Humbrol acrylic paint 110 is the equivalent, according to the IPMS. * The ABS kits were white metal, very thin with crisp detail. Adrian Swain did some very good stuff imho. Edited January 7, 2020 by railroadbill Extra info 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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