Hornby 2019 announcements

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

True, and Hornby have periodically lost sight of that lesson over the years, almost causing history to repeat itself.

Tri-ang trains were primarily intended to cater for those of us for whom Hornby Dublo was out of reach. That they would also attract a proportion of those who could afford the products of Binns Road was inevitable, but was possibly as much related to the latter's tardiness in adopting new technology (2-rail) and their ossified (expensive) 1930s production methods as any issue of quality. HD cost what it cost because of how it was made and it became seen as old-fashioned (which it was). All of which bore striking parallels with what also did for nearly all of the British motorcycle industry. 

How things worked out does perhaps offer a lesson on pricing that will still resonate today. That demand for (relative) cheapness may be satisfied but can lead to  the loss of products people really wanted but couldn't, or wouldn't pay for. To be supplanted by items made to sell at prices they could and would stump up but usually lacking a "certain something" that its predecessors had possessed. 

The way we decide between price and absolute quality are nothing new, but the choices we make are inextricably linked to the Law of Unintended Consequences. If we prioritise cheapness above all else, one outcome that can be expected is reduced choice. We should, therefore, be careful what we wish for.

John

Agree with much of that.  We should not forget that in reality prices are decided by two things - profitability and the market.  Any sensible company will ensure that 'profitability' covers all its  business costs and they can be considerable (as Hornby's were until LCD got to grips with some of them).   The market is a slightly different kettle of fish as it requires knowledge of how the market is working and how your products are selling and Hornby haven't been too clever in some respects at this in the past - hence the previous management dumping stock for over-ordered (from the factory) models.   Hornby now appear, again thanks to the LCD influence I would think, to be beginning to understand how pricing will work in influencing the market hence some 'very reasonable' prices for some items sitting alongside 'high' prices for others.  For example provided they get the size of their factory orders right they will make good money selling the new non-gangwayed GWR coaches at an RRP  only a whisper short of £50 a throw but they appear to fully understand that some other of the coaches announced for this year will go into a market where the achievable market price will be lower in order to get the right volume of sales.

In some respects their marketing is becoming more sophisticated than it has ever been in the past and it will be interesting to see what sort of impact this approach has on their bottom line.

[Coryton]

4 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Agree with much of that.  We should not forget that in reality prices are decided by two things - profitability and the market.  Any sensible company will ensure that 'profitability' covers all its  business costs and they can be considerable (as Hornby's were until LCD got to grips with some of them).   The market is a slightly different kettle of fish as it requires knowledge of how the market is working and how your products are selling and Hornby haven't been too clever in some respects at this in the past - hence the previous management dumping stock for over-ordered (from the factory) models.   Hornby now appear, again thanks to the LCD influence I would think, to be beginning to understand how pricing will work in influencing the market hence some 'very reasonable' prices for some items sitting alongside 'high' prices for others.  For example provided they get the size of their factory orders right they will make good money selling the new non-gangwayed GWR coaches at an RRP  only a whisper short of £50 a throw but they appear to fully understand that some other of the coaches announced for this year will go into a market where the achievable market price will be lower in order to get the right volume of sales.

In some respects their marketing is becoming more sophisticated than it has ever been in the past and it will be interesting to see what sort of impact this approach has on their bottom line.

They also seem to have (re-)introduced models in the Railroad range at fairly keen prices, but without dropping the price of existing models. in the range...something which I imagine would not go down well with retailers who have them in stock now.

It will be interesting seeing how the Railroad pricing policy continues.

Meanwhile, Bachmann appear to be about to have another round of offloading surplus stock to retailers at vastly reduced prices.

[The Stationmaster]

7 minutes ago, Coryton said:

They also seem to have (re-)introduced models in the Railroad range at fairly keen prices, but without dropping the price of existing models. in the range...something which I imagine would not go down well with retailers who have them in stock now.

It will be interesting seeing how the Railroad pricing policy continues.

Meanwhile, Bachmann appear to be about to have another round of offloading surplus stock to retailers at vastly reduced prices.

Bachmann do that annually in order to keep stock levels (and costs) down - but what ends up being sold like that is the less popular stuff of course. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

7 minutes ago, Coryton said:

They also seem to have (re-)introduced models in the Railroad range at fairly keen prices, but without dropping the price of existing models. in the range...something which I imagine would not go down well with retailers who have them in stock now.

It will be interesting seeing how the Railroad pricing policy continues.

Meanwhile, Bachmann appear to be about to have another round of offloading surplus stock to retailers at vastly reduced prices.

Interesting if Bachmann have to do that. Their prices do seem to have risen so much more than everybody else's.

[bigherb]

18 hours ago, Pete Darton said:

Just a shame there is such a limited choice of diesel locomotives on the Hornby Railroad range. Hornby was created to provide affordable model trains to the masses and that dad and son could enjoy model trains together. 

Not sure the range is limited, they have released classes 20,31,37,40,43,47,50,73,59/66 off the top of my head. 

[Coryton]

6 minutes ago, bigherb said:

Not sure the range is limited, they have released classes 20,31,37,40,43,47,50,73,59/66 off the top of my head. 

Also a 55.

But in the current catalogue there is just:

66s (in many liveries)

Two "Royal" 47/7s

A "Bagnall" shunter in fictitious BR green 

A pair of 43s in original livery (but no coaches in matching livery)

A Foster Yeoman 59 (with a Yeoman tippler wagon in the Railroad range available to go with it)

A class 55 in blue

 

[Coryton]

11 minutes ago, Pete Darton said:

It great if they have sold versions in the past but what if you want to buy one now. You go to somewhere like hattons and the older models just come up as out of stock. Why are all the railroad models made in limited numbers. I can understand the higher quality models having limited editions to make them more valuable (not that I agree with this approach). If you can’t afford it this year then there should be enough stock to buy it next year or the year after. If a certain model sells well why don’t they make more so other people can buy them. Surely making more makes good business sence. Some will say that stockists don’t want to store surplus stock, but if they sell over time then nothing lost. With the power of the internet the choice isn’t limited to each years offical releases.

 

Unfortunately, if a retailer buys (and has to pay the supplier for) too much stock that sits on the shelves or in a storeroom waiting to be sold many years later, there's a good chance that what is lost is the retailer.

 

[Legend]

Pete . You wouldn't buy all stock up front with the idea of selling it over the next five years .  For a start you have spent a lot of money which is now tied up in stock and cant be used  to pay wages, rates the gas bill , more stock of something people want now .  Unless you have a bottomless pit of money you just wouldn't operate this way, and even if you had its still a very inefficient way of running business .  Well run businesses need to generate positive cash flow . Buying stock that lasts years is a negative cash flow and generally is how businesses go bust.

[Fenman]

37 minutes ago, Legend said:

Pete . You wouldn't buy all stock up front with the idea of selling it over the next five years .  For a start you have spent a lot of money which is now tied up in stock and cant be used  to pay wages, rates the gas bill , more stock of something people want now .  Unless you have a bottomless pit of money you just wouldn't operate this way, and even if you had its still a very inefficient way of running business .  Well run businesses need to generate positive cash flow . Buying stock that lasts years is a negative cash flow and generally is how businesses go bust.

 

Exactly. It’s why the well-known saying is “cash is king”, not “loads-of-ancient-unsold-stock-sitting-on-the-shelves-just-in-case is king”.

 

Paul

[Coryton]

33 minutes ago, Legend said:

Pete . You wouldn't buy all stock up front with the idea of selling it over the next five years .  For a start you have spent a lot of money which is now tied up in stock and cant be used  to pay wages, rates the gas bill , more stock of something people want now .  Unless you have a bottomless pit of money you just wouldn't operate this way, and even if you had its still a very inefficient way of running business .  Well run businesses need to generate positive cash flow . Buying stock that lasts years is a negative cash flow and generally is how businesses go bust.

 

Absolutely.

 

Holding stock might look OK on the profit and loss but that's not much help when you've run out of cash.

 

So instead you need Hornby to make a big batch and keep a full warehouse so that shops can buy in as required.

 

But that doesn't work because Hornby has exactly the same problem - they can't tie up cash in stock that won't sell for years either (and while model shops tend not to be all that profitable, I don't think Hornby is at all profitable at present). Ideally they get a container-load of models in and straight away they are all sold to shops or as direct sales on-line. If that happens, maybe they'll do more later.

 

When Hornby do a "limited edition" you know it because they make a point of it, and give you a fancy certificate. The rest are made in batches not to try to force the price up but because that's how production works these days. For things they want to keep continuously available, they make more batches as and when required. You can always buy "cheap and cheerful" 0-4-0s in one colour or another. The Railroad 06 tends to be available. 

 

I agree that it's frustrating that so many models come and go, and if you miss your chance you have to get them second hand. Even worse for someone starting out at the wrong time to get the stock they want. It would be lovely if everything Hornby had sold in the last, say, 15 years was still available new.

 

But I don't see an alternative given the current system. Hornby no longer have their own factory churning out models vaguely resembling the prototype that use a large set of common parts, where they can do a few more of this and a few more of that as required.

 

It is also worth noting the far, far wider range available at any one time now than in, say, the 80's. 

 

Where they perhaps could do better is making sure that things that should always be available actually are, and here I'm thinking of track not rolling stock. Track is pretty fundamental and it is disappointing that in recent times availability has been a bit hit and miss. Perhaps Peco have a big advantage there in carrying out their own manufacturing (in the UK I believe).

 

 

 

[Talltim]

On 11/01/2019 at 12:27, Wickham Green said:

............. but, as far as Hornby are concerned, that ought to be an increased spend from the rest of us ................................. and WE might be crying in our beer on Monday if t'other lot make an ALL LNER announcement and leave US out in the cold.

The US gets a Big Boy!

[Talltim]

I'm not against the concept of a Coca Cola train, (other fizzy beverages are available), however I do find the choice of stock for it strange. I'd have thought that steam, or a really modern loco would appeal more to the sort of market it is aimed at, and for a liquid product a tank car of some type would be appropriate. There is competition even in this market, and quite frankly most of it looks more attractive to me, although some may be set at a higher price point.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Talltim

[MarkSG]

9 minutes ago, Talltim said:

I'm not against the concept of a Coca Cola train, (other fizzy beverages are available), however I do find the choice of stock for it strange. I'd have thought that steam, or a really modern loco would appeal more to the sort of market it is aimed at, and for a liquid product a tank car of some type would be appropriate. There is competition even in this market, and quite frankly most of it looks more attractive to me, although some may be set at a higher price point.

 

I suspect there are two main reasons for the choice. Firstly, they've picked a loco and rolling stock that looks vaguely like the truck in the advert. And, secondly, it needs to comprise cheap items that have already covered development costs and merely need a new livery, since this is going to be aimed firmly at the price-sensitive, impulse-buy market.

 

I have a feeling, too, that most of them will end up selling through toy shops and supermarkets, rather than specialist modelling outlets. The people who buy them aren't going to be searching on eBay or Amazon for Coca Cola train sets.

[Talltim]

On 01/02/2019 at 15:19, Pete Darton said:

Has anyone thought the type C customers are children that want to get into the hobby? Children don’t have lots of money and quality models are not there biggest priority. They just want model trains that go. The new Hornby class 66 which is a lot cheaper is great for them, just need more choice on the market for them. Model railways isn’t just about making trains go around a track. It’s about making you own scenery and painting your own locomotives in colour you want and putting on transfers. The old plastic looking Lima models were ideal for this. That’s why there needs to be cheaper models on the market. 

When I was a kid it was all about upgrading those (now dated looking) Lima models and P4ing them. Can't be bothered with that now...

[Talltim]

2 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

I suspect there are two main reasons for the choice. Firstly, they've picked a loco and rolling stock that looks vaguely like the truck in the advert. And, secondly, it needs to comprise cheap items that have already covered development costs and merely need a new livery, since this is going to be aimed firmly at the price-sensitive, impulse-buy market.

 

I have a feeling, too, that most of them will end up selling through toy shops and supermarkets, rather than specialist modelling outlets. The people who buy them aren't going to be searching on eBay or Amazon for Coca Cola train sets.

Good point on the shape maybe matching the Coca Cola truck.

The people they need to sell sets like this to are the buyers for supermarkets and tat sellers. I would still say that for them there are more attractive alternatives out there.

[The Johnster]

The irony of the Coca Cola train is that the thing in the advert is in fact a train, decorated to look like a convoy of lorries with the track hidden by snow!  So the model is a train that looks like a lorry that looks like a train...

 

It is presumably intended to be seen as carrying crates of bottles or cans, the form in which Coke is familiar to most people, which is why it doesn't have tank wagons, though a train of 100 ton bogie tanks would look great in that livery!

[Coryton]

2 hours ago, Talltim said:

I'm not against the concept of a Coca Cola train, (other fizzy beverages are available), however I do find the choice of stock for it strange. I'd have thought that steam, or a really modern loco would appeal more to the sort of market it is aimed at, and for a liquid product a tank car of some type would be appropriate. There is competition even in this market, and quite frankly most of it looks more attractive to me, although some may be set at a higher price point.

 

Goodness! i had no idea there was such a bandwagon to jump on.

 

I suppose we'll see if the UK market is ready for this...

[PMP]

19 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The irony of the Coca Cola train is that the thing in the advert is in fact a train, decorated to look like a convoy of lorries with the track hidden by snow!  So the model is a train that looks like a lorry that looks like a train...

 

 

The Coke advert ‘train’ is a convoy of trucks animated to look like caravan of trucks .

https://www.coca-colajourney.com.au/stories/history-of-coca-colas-christmas-trucks#ath

The holiday trains in the states and Canada are run by the railroad companies as charity and community Christmas displays, with benefits going to the en route communities, or in CP’s 2018 train, donations going to food banks. The idea behind the set is partly to get the train set under the tree at Christmas time, thus helping to sew the seeds of interest in the hobby from youngsters playing with the train set under the tree. It also gets the Hornby brand re-established (hopefully) as part of ‘Christmas’.

 

The tie in with Coca Cola is a branding excercise for that time of year, high profile TV ads, allowing this set to be marketed in the Christmas period in the big supermarkets, garden centres, and the high street, sold as part of the decorations. The vehicles in the set are reliable existing tooling which take the logo design and branding with no modifications, making the set cost effective to produce. This Christmas set concept tied in to the Coke  brand has been done for many years in the US, in various scales and are quite collectable. Coke brand collectors will go for this too as well as regular families, and Hornby collectors. If it does well you can expect to see a variation again in 2020.

Edited February 6, 2019 by PMP

[Steamport Southport]

We've had the Coca Cola trucks in the UK for well over twenty years.

 

Unfortunately a bunch of PC nutters got it banned from Liverpool (and other places) last year.  

 

https://www.theguideliverpool.com/the-coca-cola-truck-is-definitely-not-coming-to-liverpool-this-christmas/

 

 

Jason

[GraemeWatson]

Some of my favourite novelty wagons from my youth were the Hornby Duracell tank wagon, as well as the Polo wagon...

Neither of which existed or carried liquid battery juice or mint flavour on the real railway...

Fair play to anyone who wants a coca cola set!

Edited February 8, 2019 by GraemeWatson
Spelling

[JDW]

I think the Polo wagon was intended to carry the holes, not the mint flavour... 

 

 

[GraemeWatson]

14 minutes ago, JDW said:

I think the Polo wagon was intended to carry the holes, not the mint flavour... 

 

 

Of course, it all makes sense now!

[Widnes Model Centre]

Hornby R3643, Britannia Class "Anzac" and R3638 West Country "Bude".

 

According to Hornby they would be with us on the 19th February 2019.

 

Well done Hornby. Out for delivery to us today.

 

Even more signs of significant improvements on delivery schedules from the new management.

[Oliver Rails]

 

Hornby R3643 Anzac Britannia and R3638 Bideford West Country are now in stock @ Rails! 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Oliver Rails

[Oliver Rails]

Hornby R3643 Anzac Britannia and R3638 Bideford West Country are now in stock @ Rails!