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Now with Videos! Stranraer ‘themed’ loft layout 1959-64


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Working on the Harbour Station Throat:

 

The Prototype involves a cross over into a Y for Platform 1 and 2. This appears fine on the prototype but I have concerns regarding running and reliability..

 

I can clearly see why the Prototype used this arrangement. It allows the Centre roads to be shunted to the sidings.

 

The NLS maps show five lines by the ferry fuelling point not four and more sidings towards the road bridge.

 

The modified version should remove these issues and hopefully allow some resemblance of reality..

 

 

I have used the NLS Maps to get close to the Prototype and then compare with the modified no reverse curve version.

 

 

 

post-22023-0-56509900-1546209795_thumb.jpg

 

 

Taking the layout to the essentials (ignoring Stranraer Shed and Goods Yard) I get this which I hope captures the feel... looking at mapping it is a long straight run to the harbour after it curves away from the junction. The Cairnryan Road runs over the track making an ideal scenic break and runs back to Stranraer Shed in a cutting with a further road bridge.

 

Stranraer Shed and goods yard is a sprawling mass in the centre of a Y with the left hand tracks running off towards the old Port Patrick Station.

 

Around eight lines for the shed.

 

Around eleven lines for the goods yard

 

Around five lines for the carriage sidings

 

Three main lines into two into one and off to the next stop Dunragit I think?

 

The whole trip was recorded and available on the NLS site...before the line closed

 

https://movingimage.nls.uk/film/3696

 

Locowise the Layout needs:

 

Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 46467?

Crab 5MT 42738

Black Five x 2

STD 5MT

Hunslet D2575?

Class 126

Clan

 

BR MK.1 sleepers

Comical ended fuel tankers

Conflat/parcel vans

BR MK.1’s

 

The whole layout will use ID backscenes

post-22023-0-42763100-1546209870_thumb.jpg

Edited by danstercivicman
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I took stock of my locos and rolling stock this am.

 

I have

 

Black Five

Ivatt 4MT

STD 4 2-6-4t

Class 128 DPU

Fowler Crab 5MT

 

8x BR Mk.1 (various)

3x BR Ex LMS P3 coaches

5x BR Ex LMS suburban (various)

 

6x Fish Vans

4x Fruit Vans

2x Milk Tank

Around 6-10 other freight

3x Brake Vans

 

That should be enough stock to start. I sold the rest...

 

Trackwise I’ve got enough to start the throat

 

Woodwise I’m lacking!!!

 

Point wise I’ve got enough to start the throat...

 

I think time to build at the end of January

 

Cattle wagons! Need some of those!

Edited by danstercivicman
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Nice project. A bit of a change from the last one!

 

Definitely better to go for maximum length to get the right effect.

 

That 16-coach train would have been an exception and too long for the platforms. I think that you can run shorter formations and still be realistic.

 

Can't remember the date (probably about 20 years ago) that a Plan of the Month in Railway Modeller covered Stranraer.

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Cheers :)

 

It’s definately a big change but one I think that’s realistic. Especially as the loft has two beams running across which are level and as long as I use them as a guide it should help :) Being single track the wiring should be easier for my limited skills and it’s essentially a very long plank into the sea!

 

I think the whole site is very good for railway modelling. The shed branching off, carriage sidings and Stranraer town station add another dimension.

 

Interestingly, the site is well covered by train simulators on YouTube. Most of the track layout is prototypical (from the NLS maps) but they modify the Harbour throat and the access to the shed road which I will follow.

 

I like how the scenarios involve shunting from the Harbour to carriage sidings. Shunting from the yard to the Harbour and trains leaving from the town as well.

 

I tried prizing some points off my minories layout this morning but it’s so well ballasted they will break :( my daughter lent a hand pulling ppl off the platforms and putting them into boxes.

 

The only one not excited about the new plan is my wife!

 

I would be up the loft on my day off but the baby had an op so I’m on daddy duties instead..

 

Ah well next set of days off maybe!!!

 

I’ll try and find the article

Edited by danstercivicman
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Not an expert and happy to be shot down in flames, but I'd reckon that for the period you are modelling the odd Clayton type 1 might turn up as well from time to time. 

 

My general impression is that you need a lot more general merchandise goods wagons and vans if only as a 'pool' to draw from, but you seem to have captured the essence of the place.  The ships are going to be a whole nother issue, though; your viewpoint is from the west looking east across Loch Ryan, and ships berthed on the viewed side of the jetty.

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Not an expert and happy to be shot down in flames, but I'd reckon that for the period you are modelling the odd Clayton type 1 might turn up as well from time to time.

 

My general impression is that you need a lot more general merchandise goods wagons and vans if only as a 'pool' to draw from, but you seem to have captured the essence of the place. The ships are going to be a whole nother issue, though; your viewpoint is from the west looking east across Loch Ryan, and ships berthed on the viewed side of the jetty.

Yes, definately more general vans and conflats :) Seems cars were carried for export as well with an unloading thing in the head shunts at the pier ends I think...

 

There are some pictures of ships other than the ferry moored up but I think the ferry pretty much dominated.

 

I may therefore... invoke rule 1 and add some dockside facilities and ‘dredge’ the lock out abit. Maybe Cairnryan needed some extra docks for minesweepers or something??? Although it appears the military did not want to mix it at the docks... and the port was generally poorly regarded. I guess that’s why it’s such a derelict sure now :(

 

Thanks to Beeching as well...

 

Then the scalescenes boat can more up?

 

Or the cattle siding could run off scene to some docks?

 

Not sure if a Clayton would make it up the 1/86 gradient I expect it would brew up :)

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Not an expert and happy to be shot down in flames, but I'd reckon that for the period you are modelling the odd Clayton type 1 might turn up as well from time to time.

I would be amazed if a Clayton got anywhere near Stranraer. (Cue picture of one doing exactly that!)

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There have been a number of previous threads dealing with the Port Road, this one for instance:http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97593-the-port-road-and-branches/page-4?hl=%20the%20%20port%20%20road

 

I have two or three pictures on my Flickr account - this one of the locomotive facilities has lots of modelling potential.

 

https://flic.kr/p/d51MDE

 

Interestingly I was involved fairly recently with a redevelopment plan for the area.

 

Being in Scotland the National Library for Scotland has plenty of historic maps for Stranraer.  A quick Google / Bing search for NLS Old Maps should bring up links for both large scale OS and OS Town Plans.

 

Good hunting.

 

Ray

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Cheers,

 

Yup the NLS site has been a massive help!

 

I do like the Shed it’s got a great deal of potential. Thanks for the link it looks like a great shed!

 

I’ve been up the loft just (putting the Christmas decorations away...) and measuring...

 

The back scene height will be 30cm.

 

The boards will be around 1m off the floor so I can store my aircraft models underneath.

 

I will need to get the lighting and the electric provision improved.

 

 

 

 

There have been a number of previous threads dealing with the Port Road, this one for instance:http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97593-the-port-road-and-branches/page-4?hl=%20the%20%20port%20%20road

 

I have two or three pictures on my Flickr account - this one of the locomotive facilities has lots of modelling potential.

 

https://flic.kr/p/d51MDE

 

Interestingly I was involved fairly recently with a redevelopment plan for the area.

 

Being in Scotland the National Library for Scotland has plenty of historic maps for Stranraer. A quick Google / Bing search for NLS Old Maps should bring up links for both large scale OS and OS Town Plans.

 

Good hunting.

 

Ray

Edited by danstercivicman
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The most exotic engines to work the line must have been the Hunslet and the Clan’s :)

How about an unrebuilt Patriot?

Edited by pH
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Rebuilt yes. I’d happily have a rebuilt patriot or rebuilt Scot as an exotic loco but only after my layout was fully built and once the roster of standard types was fully made up.

The rebuilt LMS 4-6-0s weren't allowed into Stranraer over either route. Unrebuilt Patriots were, but were very rare.

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Ah shame my fav engine the rebuilt Scot. Was that a clearance issue or weight?

 

Did any class 7’s use the line? I haven’t seen any pictures in the timeframe of anything over class 6

 

From what I’ve read it appears like there were weight restrictions on the line and a max speed of 75mph.

 

Would the weight restrictions also explain the lack of my second favourite engine the 8f?

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Ah shame my fav engine the rebuilt Scot. Was that a clearance issue or weight?

I don't know for sure, but the rebuilds were heavier than the originals. Royal Scots could be used to Stranraer over the Port Road, but not from Girvan, before they were rebuilt (though they would only have been class 6 at that time).

Did any class 7’s use the line? I haven’t seen any pictures in the timeframe of anything over class 6.

The Britannias, used on the Northern Irishman after it was diverted by Mauchline and Ayr when the Port Road was closed, were class 7.

Would the weight restrictions also explain the lack of my second favourite engine the 8f?

You can have an 8F. There are at least 2 records of Kingmoor 8Fs in the area in BR days. Look at the last post in this topic from an old version of this site:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5302

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Hello thank you.

 

The Jubilee’s definately worked the line so that might become my favoured exotic engine. Hornby Clan 6MT’s appears rare and command silly money.

 

Interesting on the 8F. Looks like most of my freight will need to be Crab, Ivatt and Black Five Hauled.

 

I will definately need more BR Mk.1’s

 

The sleeper coaches seem to have disappeared off Hattons now :(

 

Are Railway models becoming limited run??? The seasonality of stock is getting frustrating...

 

I think these trains will be the eventual goal:

 

1) Boat Train 6/7 BR Mk.1 (Euston)

2) Local Semi Fast to Dumfries 4 BR Mk.1/ex LMS P.3

3) Boat Train 6/7 BR Mk.1 (Glasgow)

4) Night Sleeper (Portion) 3 x Sleeper 4 x BR Mk.1 The Sleeper portion detaches and is coupled to the larger sleeper train off scene (Glasgow maybe?)

5) Local to Stranraer Town 3 x LMS Suburban (hailed by the tank engine)

6) Parcel Train

 

1) Fitted Freight

2) Pick Up Goods Visit

3) Fish/Meat

4) Fruit/Milk

5) Cattle Freight

6) Bulk oil for the ships

 

Not sure about the milk as there doesn’t seem to be any facilities.

 

To cut down on stock the Semi Fast will provide the portion of standard coaches for the Sleeper.

Edited by danstercivicman
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I decided to measure the loft after work tonight.

 

Bad news- its only 5770mm long

 

Good news- its still a bigger space than I've had before!

 

I've been re-planning the tracks accordingly.

 

I have tried to use the prototype throat.  I am still worried by the reverse curve but I do think it looks nice and I can then follow the exact signal plan.  

 

It appears trains at Stranraer were very long and effectively the Loco and a few coaches straddled off the end of the platforms.  This could be easily rectified by removing some of the goods handling at the far end... 

 

Please let me know what you think?

 

I am planning to cut the first wood at the end of Jan/early Feb and then the baords mid/late Feb (work permitting)..

 

Also looking at the NLS maps I am wondering why they didn't arrange the point work for P3 the other way round as in the second plan- this to me would permit longer trains and allow the loco to pull forward and release??

 

 

post-22023-0-92739700-1546550148_thumb.jpg

post-22023-0-97888700-1546552004_thumb.jpg

Edited by danstercivicman
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Looking at the route availability of various locos:

 

BR 7MT -8

BR 6MT- 8

Jubilee- 8

 

Rebuilt Scot- 9

Rebuilt Jubilee- 9

Rebuilt Patriot- 9

 

Black Five- 7

STD 5MT- 7

 

Stanier 8F- 6

 

So it looks like the line class must be 8 for the Stranraer Line...

 

I guess that also means that a Britannia would have been permitted?

Edited by danstercivicman
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Apologies I’d misread your reply :)

 

That’s good to know! Thanks for the named train hint too!

 

I’m finding it hard to find coach formations for the boat trains. There appears to be very little focus on the coaching stock/kind during the late crest BR period.

 

It’s also interesting to see how the pier gradually expanded from a very small pier to abit of a monster!

 

Yes, and they were used - see post#43 above.

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Also looking at the NLS maps I am wondering why they didn't arrange the point work for P3 the other way round as in the second plan- this to me would permit longer trains and allow the loco to pull forward and release??

 

No problem with longer trains - just follow prototype practice. The engine of the Euston boat train would propel the empties (up to 16 carriages on occasion, as described above) back out of the Harbour station, then pull forward into the Town station and release from the train there.

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Interesting :)

 

That’s a big backwards propelling move...I guess less risky as it’s single track and I assume token controllled?

 

It does seem that the whole operation was quite linked with the shed being tucked inside the triangle and the larger good facilities down by the town station.

 

At least it allows for lots of flows to the Harbour-long distance and local moves!

 

Would you happen to have an idea on timetables?

 

No problem with longer trains - just follow prototype practice. The engine of the Euston boat train would propel the empties (up to 16 carriages on occasion, as described above) back out of the Harbour station, then pull forward into the Town station and release from the train there.

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  • danstercivicman changed the title to Now with Videos! Stranraer ‘themed’ loft layout 1959-64

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