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Now with Videos! Stranraer ‘themed’ loft layout 1959-64


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Cheers :)

 

It is indeed a nice project idea with some big trains and lots of van/xp freight...

 

I’ve found this which is a nice picture of a fowler tendered Jubilee blasting away from the Harbour 

 

(link to external picture)

 

Not my own picture.

 

If I can create some of this atmosphere I will be very happy indeed :) 

 

Theres some other locos in steam in the Harbour station you can just see the plumes of smoke! 

 

Do do you think that’s Period 2 ex LMS stock at the front onto Period 3 corridor stock? 

 

The Jubilees seem quite common on the line and the boat trains.   That’s good as they are at least more reasonably priced than the rare Hornby Clans.  

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/de/55/e8/de55e8ae8173ba74e0b402cb52376eae.jpg

 

de55e8ae8173ba74e0b402cb52376eae.jpg

Edited by danstercivicman
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5 hours ago, danstercivicman said:

 

Do do you think that’s Period 2 ex LMS stock at the front onto Period 3 corridor stock? 

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/de/55/e8/de55e8ae8173ba74e0b402cb52376eae.jpg

 

de55e8ae8173ba74e0b402cb52376eae.jpg

 

Yes looks like a P.2 Non corridor Brake 3rd heading P.3 Corridor stock I think.

 

That fence should be easy to replicate with some old bullhead rail too.

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Good to know,

 

It’s like a very early crash barrier fence! 

 

I like the fowler tender Jubilee.  Doesn’t suit it at all but adds interest! 

 

I think from reading the Clan Diagram was down Northern Irishman (arrived 5:25am).  Then the 11:44am to Glasgow, back on the 17:10hrs then back to Carlisle on the 22:00 UP Northern Irishman.  Is it safe to assume the Jubilee would have had the same diagram? 

 

From reading the Mogul Crabs were well used on the line.  Looks like they piloted relief and specials and along with STD 5’s and Stanier Black Fives were the main bread and butter power. 

 

 

 

 

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Depends how accurate you want to be (and / or how much you want to spend)!  The Airfix (Dapol) LMS non gangwayed Brake Third is a similar but slightly different type, with a lavatory compartment:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/60592/Dapol_4P_010_014_RTR_57ft_Stanier_non_corridor_brake_in_BR_maroon_unlined_M20540/StockDetail.aspx

 

Whereas the coach in the picture seems to be the same type as the Hornby ex LMS non gangwayed Brake Third:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/431076/Hornby_R4691B_57_non_corridor_brake_third_M20752M_in_BR_maroon/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

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Cheers  :)

 

Yes I had feared that it would be the Uber expensive Hornby coach!  

 

I have an ex LMS Airfix non corridor and a P2 Mainline Brake (corridor). 

 

I guess the Airfix one will have to do for now!  They run on Hornby wheels so are quite smooth runners.  

 

Until I can remortgage the Jubilees will look after the 6P workings :) 

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I have been busy looking after a poorly toddler and researching the workings of the line!

 

http://www.carlisle-citadel.co.uk/nighttt.htm

 

This site has some useful information.  It appears there was a Newcastle-Carlisle express which connected with the Northern Irishman.  That would explain the TC element to the timetables I guess.

 

Most of the stoppers seem to have used the Town Station leaving the Harbour for the expresses, parcel, XP and cattle workings. 

 

I think trains to Glasgow and Dumfries can be added.

 

I’m ok with that as it means I don’t need to invest in a STD 4MT 4-6-0 or an Ivatt 2MT.  I’ve found no evidence the Hunslet made it to the Harbour so again that’s a bonus!

 

The Crabs must have done as they appear in photographs piloting Jubilees and Black Fives :) 

 

Also a lot of pictures of double headed Black Fives.  That’s around £300 of Hornby-eek!!!! 

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Thinking about the backscene.  I’m tempted to hand paint one.  Should I use lining paper over the ply then paint onto that?  

 

I need to capture at the pier end open sea/small portion of land.  

 

Behind the station I need to capture Cairnryan and the loch then a gradual increase in hills towards the road bridge...

 

The other option is emulsion- any ideas on good colours? 

 

And.. I’ve also put the Jubilees body back on properly so there no gap...

Edited by danstercivicman
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On 03/02/2019 at 23:01, danstercivicman said:

There’s not many pictures of the Harbour but here’s my thoughts:

 

1) parcels at Harbour and perishables direct from the boat into vans.  There were five roads (tracks) at the end of the pier

 

2) cattle from the boat to the cattle dock towards the land side of the pier (again st harbour station)

 

3) ferry fuel oil at the pier 

 

4) milk from road tankers off the boat- here I am not sure whether they would have driven to the town goods yard or loaded on the pier

 

5) at some point bunkerage/coal would have been required for the coal fired ships. 

 

6) the book also alluded to fish traffic before my period at the lairage?  Whatever one of them or wherever that was? 

 

Thats my thoughts anyway.  I can’t prove it but I’m planning:

 

1) cattle dock

2) van/parcels at the pier end 

3) milk tankers from the boat to fill up milk wagons in the sidings 

4) perishable produce direct from boat to waiting vans

 

I think my layout needs to move to 1961 as by 1965 much of this traffic probably died out? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s not cheap but it’s good, especially as it captures all the local branch lines...

Milk appears to have been big in the fifties with lorries hailing it across the sea on the ferry then pumping it into the milk tankers.

 

This has made me think of expanding the harbour side somewhat...

I’ve had it all working but now I’ve added the geographic control panel things have gone wrong eek! 

 

'Lairage' is an area used to house cattle before or after shipping; basically a number of cattle docks with fodder and water. At some ports, such as Fishguard, they were connected by covered ramps from cargo-deck level to cattle-dock level, out of view of the public. Apart from resting the beasts, it would allow the Port Veterinary Officer to inspect them.

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4 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

'Lairage' is an area used to house cattle before or after shipping; basically a number of cattle docks with fodder and water. At some ports, such as Fishguard, they were connected by covered ramps from cargo-deck level to cattle-dock level, out of view of the public. Apart from resting the beasts, it would allow the Port Veterinary Officer to inspect them.

In Ireland, the ferries were commonly referred to as the cattle boats, which of course at one time they were, but by the time I went on my first holiday there in 1963 (family touring camping, brilliant time for an 11 year old) the Fishguard traffic at least had separate ships for the passengers, which went to Rosslare, and the cattle, which came from Waterford.  

 

We had a night in a hotel in the town of Athlone, which very nearly featured a fight between my mother and an Irish woman who had perfectly innocently asked her if she'd come over on the cattle boat; mother, normally a quiet sort, took some exception to this, and thus was born a family legend...

 

The car had to go on the cattle boat to Waterford and we travelled from Rosslare on the train to pick it up, hauled by a Woolwich mogul in very clean black livery with the 'flying snail' on the tender.  The cattle boat was not a fast modern ship like the St Andrew, and we were in Waterford in plenty of time to see it coming up the river with our grey Ford Prefect as deck cargo, to be craned off on to the quay.  We drove it directly away to that night's campsite, at Dungarvan.  Return trip was Dun Laoghaire to Holyhead, with the car on the same ship.  

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21 hours ago, danstercivicman said:

I like the fowler tender Jubilee.  Doesn’t suit it at all but adds interest! 

 

I think from reading the Clan Diagram was down Northern Irishman (arrived 5:25am).  Then the 11:44am to Glasgow, back on the 17:10hrs then back to Carlisle on the 22:00 UP Northern Irishman.  Is it safe to assume the Jubilee would have had the same diagram? 

 

 

I know it's not a popular view, but I like Jubilees with Fowler tenders. (Actually, I like all Jubilees, except non-rebuilds with double chimneys - sorry!)

 

Yes, when Jubilees were used on the Northern Irishman, they did that return trip to Glasgow. 

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17 hours ago, danstercivicman said:

Also a lot of pictures of double headed Black Fives.  That’s around £300 of Hornby-eek!!!! 

 

Double-headed Jubilees were also used, on freight and passenger trains, but that was during WW2, before your time period.

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5 hours ago, danstercivicman said:

 

I don't think Stranraer had any of the larger Caley 0-6-0s in British Railway days. They did have several Jumbos though, plus Caley 0-4-4Ts and 0-6-0Ts. But since none of those are available RTR, the 812 class is the nearest Caledonian equivalent.

Edited by pH
Missing word
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Cheers thank you :)

 

My plan is to have:

 

Stranraer Trains 

 

The Northern Irishman (6)

 

DOWN Arr 5:45AM
UP Dep 10:00PM

 

Jubilee
Clan 

(5MT)

 

BG
Sleeper First
Sleeper Second
BSK
CK
SK
BSK

 

Larne Boat Train Carlisle (6/5) TC

Newcastle 

 

DOWN Arr 5:25AM
UP Dep 9:30PM

 

Jubilee
5MT
Clan 

 

BCK (TC) Newcastle E Stock
TSO
BSK
CK
SO
BSK

 

Express Goods 
(Worked by the Larne Boat Train Engine) 

 

Dep 12:20PM
Dep 9:42PM
(Arr TOWN) 

 

5MT
5 Crab 

 

Milk Train/Perishable 

 

UP Dep 10:55PM
DOWN Arr 6:00AM

 

5 Crab 
5MT 

 

Parcels

 

Dep 10:40PM
ARR 06:15AM

 

5 Crab
5MT

 

Express to Glasgow St Enoch ST 
(Worked by N.Irishman Loco)

 

Dep 12:17PM
Arr TOWN 8:53PM 

 

Jubilee
5MT
Clan 

 

P2 BK/P2 Non Corridor 
CK
BK
CK
CK
BK

 

Stopper Dumfries B

 

Dep 07:40AM
Arr 1:05PM
Dep 3PM
Arr 8:05PM 

 

**Class 126 DMU**


4P/4MT
5MT

 

CK
BK
BG
VAN 

 

Van Freight D/E

 

Dep 3:30PM
Arr 11:00 AM

 

5 Crab
4MT
5MT

 

Holiday Train XP/Military 

 

5MT
6
Crab

 

BK
CK
BK
CK
CK
BK
NON Corridor Second 

 

I’ve tried to indicate the lamp codes!

 

Lets hope that’s correct :)

 

The ECS will be propelled into the harbour some of it when not in use will be stored in the off scene carriage sidings. 

 

Comments feedback welcome :) 

 

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12 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

'Lairage' is an area used to house cattle before or after shipping; basically a number of cattle docks with fodder and water. At some ports, such as Fishguard, they were connected by covered ramps from cargo-deck level to cattle-dock level, out of view of the public. Apart from resting the beasts, it would allow the Port Veterinary Officer to inspect them.

 

 

Thank you for this.  Looking further I’ve found:

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1913-07-17/debates/d038d2b9-9f85-47df-8369-4fff855efbf3/IrishCattle(Lairage)

 

Appears it came up in parliament in 1913!

 

Also Railscot has the evidence I needed of 7MT’s at Stranraer :)

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/21/201/

Edited by danstercivicman
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Even though completion is a million miles away and there is nowhere for the trains to ‘run’, sometimes it’s nice to plan out the layout and populate it with vehicles.  

 

Pretty much thats how everything will look when complete except for the missing track!

 

There is so much to do! 

 

Which reminds me of one of my favourite musicians-one of the greatest of all :)

 

 

 

96CCEB40-565A-4CC0-936D-5C7F618883CE.jpeg

6BB55C0D-89AF-4957-9689-E0F50A33677F.jpeg

BE5A9BC5-AD31-426A-9ABF-C0E6CBE54B33.jpeg

A3AEA42C-7E98-4178-9254-A57C2E6E39FA.jpeg

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The Lairage is test laid :) 

 

The Lairage is where the cattle wagon is sitting.   The sidings are based ‘loosly’ off a plan dated 1903.  In the plan there is an extra siding and the Lairage is at the end of the headshunt bit.

 

My thinking is that milk tankers will roll off the Ferry to this part of the Station.  They will fill up and be joined by the cattle trucks.  Together and with other produce they will form a perishable train to Carlisle or the cattle market at Castle Douglas...

 

I still need to solder the stock rails and the feeds.

 

I managed to salvage the points off my minories layout and also rescued the catch point-saves a few quid! 

 

I’ve put the feed wires into the headshunts but haven’t soldered them or the common return up yet..

 

The layout is proving quite a joy to shunt!  

 

I will not ballast it for at least six months to test it all properly and test it in the summer heat! 

 

 

4FAD074C-339C-4C61-AFD6-9679A0221C8D.jpeg

710BEE58-C8E2-419B-8D26-68DBA7B49C13.jpeg

F1AED81C-A7A1-4D68-855E-4368AF225AB4.jpeg

Edited by danstercivicman
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1 hour ago, Ian Smeeton said:

The shedbash blog has some listings at various dates from 1947 - 1964.

 

See Here: http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2013/04/stranraer-1947-1964.html

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

It does indeed, I’ve used it to get some good numbers to renumber locos to.  

 

I’ve got the transfers just need to start...

 

Carlisle Kingmoor also supplied motive power-that’s where the Clan and laterly Britannia’s came from.

 

Corkerhill and Hurlford also appear good choices and my STD 4 tank was Beattock based.

 

The thing I have forgotten is ferry fuel oil wagons...

 

They appear to have been parked in the bay although it appears a ferry fuel point was added. 

Edited by danstercivicman
Ferry fuel
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  • danstercivicman changed the title to Now with Videos! Stranraer ‘themed’ loft layout 1959-64

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