Retirement car

[meil]

To answer the OP, if your budget will stretch to it then look at a Lexus. They may not get the same glowing reviews as Euro cars but they're beautifully made, score consistently well for reliability, dealers have a good reputation and in terms of owning a nice car with no pain you probably won't do any better. However, they're not the cheapest cars.

Their SAT NAV is cr*p.

[giz]

I do not like the badge or brand, NOTHING wrong with admitting it and saying TOYOTA.

 

I call them Toyota Lexuses or use the Japanese model name.

 

Yes they are all sold in Japan as Toyotas

No they aren't. They have been sold in Japan as Lexus for about the last 15 years. Prior to that they were sold as Toyota as the Lexus brand didn't exist in Japan.

 

For example, only the 1st generation of IS has ever been sold as a Toyota (Altezza). From the the 2nd generation on they have only been sold worldwide as a Lexus. There is no equivalent rear drive Toyota.

 

You might as well say that all Audis, Skodas, Seats and Bentleys are Volkswagons as they all contain common parts.

Edited January 3, 2019 by giz

[giz]

Their SAT NAV is cr*p.

Most built in navs are pretty crap though compared to online mapping, aren't they? I don't find them particularly worse than other makes, some of which (in Jaguar and Fiat hire hire cars) I haven't even managed to input a destination.

[Tony_S]

Most built in navs are pretty crap though compared to online mapping, aren't they? I don't find them particularly worse than other makes, some of which (in Jaguar and Fiat hire hire cars) I haven't even managed to input a destination.

My Land Rover has the same sat nav as Jaguar. I find it really easy to use, either entering exact address or doing a search for a destination.

[Dunsignalling]

Yes, it's strange the Fabia has stayed the same size but the Octavia/Golf has gone up! The Passat/Superb estates are now enormous, though!!

 

With regard to purchasing, I bought a Fabia from London which was delivered to my door, I test drove the same model locally to confirm it was OK but bought long distance from another Skoda dealer. Went OK but was still under warranty, out of warranty I wouldn't be so confident!. 

 

 

My acquaintance reckons the next Polo should be just the size he wants.

 

I was looking for a used Fabia estate. People round here hang on to them and the nearest one in my price range on Autotrader at the time was 300 miles away.

 

In hindsight, I'd have been better off keeping my twelve-year old, 96k 206, and skipping the 207 altogether before getting my immaculate low mileage not-quite-five-year-old Yeti for 40% of its original price last year. 

 

Whilst there was nothing really wrong with it, I never enjoyed the 207 in the same way I grew to love my 205XS and 206 D-Turbo, each of which I kept for ten years with very little expenditure beyond normal servicing and tyres.

 

John

Edited January 3, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The 'retirement car' is a current topic of my Mrs so it is interesting to read this for other perspectives. Her primary wish is for a two seater that can magically accommodate three more adults, but only when she wants it to. I will leave it to other readers imagination just what might be the motivation. (I feel the answer may be something like the Yeti with easily removeable seats, but she didn't like that particular item when a friend had one, so it may have to be a mod shop job on a car she does like.)

 

...The Avenger was actually a really good car.

Were my Pa still compos mentis (vascular dementia has deprived him of most of his past) he'd be cheering that opinion. He bought an ex-demonstrator 1600 Avenger in 1976 (my recollection), and  maintained it himself (So simple!) until realising that his reactions were not up to road conditions* in 2003, and thus gave up driving. The old jalopy then spent a few months banger racing, so it wasn't by any means 'all done' at that stage.

 

*The location where this occurred is on the A6033 / B road junction midway between Haworth and Lees: the last time I went past - which must be three years ago - it still had not been improved (or eliminated) and driver behaviour hadn't changed either. (It's a little bit of Yorkshire where drive on the right is clearly the law.)

[jjb1970]

I do not like the badge or brand, NOTHING wrong with admitting it and saying TOYOTA.

 

Personally I agree with that sentiment but it was probably a very pragmatic and hard headed decision to launch a separate premium brand to get around badge snobbery, not just about selling a high end car under a mass market badge but also lingering prejudices against some of the Japanese brands in general. Nissan did the same thing with Infiniti, and Honda with Accura and as has been pointed out VAG do it with their upmarket Audi, Porsche, Bentley etc brands whilst also maintaining the budget Skoda and Seat brands below VW. There are other examples, Ford had their premier automotive group for a while (that never worked for them), Citroen has spun off DS as a brand in its own right, Fiat have Alfa Romeo and Lancia and so on. I kind of wonder if the KIA Stinger would have become more established in our market if they'd invented a new brand (or bought up a defunct old Euro or American one to use), it's a terrific car but I suspect a lot of people buying a car in that class won't see past the badge. Honda had a similar issue with the Legend, the Honda Legend models tended to be beautifully made, well equipped and offered a lot more for the money than rival Euro marques but it always seemed like few could look past the badge.

[doilum]

That's ok. By the time it gets round to me it will have been sorted by some backstreet boys who are still using proper paint!.

115K? Just run in and entering the prime of life. Just worry about the new MOT emissions........

Just had call to collect daughter's astra. Passed first time!!

[giz]

My Land Rover has the same sat nav as Jaguar. I find it really easy to use, either entering exact address or doing a search for a destination.

Must admit i didn't try too hard with the Jag XE as I was only driving it between work and home but the Fiat was totally unfathonable. It didn't help that I was in Slovakia at the time.

[MJI]

No they aren't. They have been sold in Japan as Lexus for about the last 15 years. Prior to that they were sold as Toyota as the Lexus brand didn't exist in Japan.

 

For example, only the 1st generation of IS has ever been sold as a Toyota (Altezza). From the the 2nd generation on they have only been sold worldwide as a Lexus. There is no equivalent rear drive Toyota.

 

You might as well say that all Audis, Skodas, Seats and Bentleys are Volkswagons as they all contain common parts.

 

Or all Skodas?

 

Audi have lost that individuality they used to have, now they are just a posh VW

['CHARD]

Personally I agree with that sentiment but it was probably a very pragmatic and hard headed decision to launch a separate premium brand to get around badge snobbery, not just about selling a high end car under a mass market badge but also lingering prejudices against some of the Japanese brands in general. Nissan did the same thing with Infiniti, and Honda with Accura and as has been pointed out VAG do it with their upmarket Audi, Porsche, Bentley etc brands whilst also maintaining the budget Skoda and Seat brands below VW. There are other examples, Ford had their premier automotive group for a while (that never worked for them), Citroen has spun off DS as a brand in its own right, Fiat have Alfa Romeo and Lancia and so on. I kind of wonder if the KIA Stinger would have become more established in our market if they'd invented a new brand (or bought up a defunct old Euro or American one to use), it's a terrific car but I suspect a lot of people buying a car in that class won't see past the badge. Honda had a similar issue with the Legend, the Honda Legend models tended to be beautifully made, well equipped and offered a lot more for the money than rival Euro marques but it always seemed like few could look past the badge.

 

 

The Riley Stinger, sounds great! 

 

Better than the VAG Stinger, anyway, which would be a great cause for concern.  

[MJI]

The 'retirement car' is a current topic of my Mrs so it is interesting to read this for other perspectives. Her primary wish is for a two seater that can magically accommodate three more adults, but only when she wants it to. I will leave it to other readers imagination just what might be the motivation. (I feel the answer may be something like the Yeti with easily removeable seats, but she didn't like that particular item when a friend had one, so it may have to be a mod shop job on a car she does like.)

 

Were my Pa still compos mentis (vascular dementia has deprived him of most of his past) he'd be cheering that opinion. He bought an ex-demonstrator 1600 Avenger in 1976 (my recollection), and  maintained it himself (So simple!) until realising that his reactions were not up to road conditions* in 2003, and thus gave up driving. The old jalopy then spent a few months banger racing, so it wasn't by any means 'all done' at that stage.

 

*The location where this occurred is on the A6033 / B road junction midway between Haworth and Lees: the last time I went past - which must be three years ago - it still had not been improved (or eliminated) and driver behaviour hadn't changed either. (It's a little bit of Yorkshire where drive on the right is clearly the law.)

 

Pity about the banger racing, those 1600s were rather tunable. More fun as a back road blaster.

[giz]

Personally I agree with that sentiment but it was probably a very pragmatic and hard headed decision to launch a separate premium brand to get around badge snobbery, not just about selling a high end car under a mass market badge but also lingering prejudices against some of the Japanese brands in general. Nissan did the same thing with Infiniti, and Honda with Accura and as has been pointed out VAG do it with their upmarket Audi, Porsche, Bentley etc brands whilst also maintaining the budget Skoda and Seat brands below VW. There are other examples, Ford had their premier automotive group for a while (that never worked for them), Citroen has spun off DS as a brand in its own right, Fiat have Alfa Romeo and Lancia and so on. I kind of wonder if the KIA Stinger would have become more established in our market if they'd invented a new brand (or bought up a defunct old Euro or American one to use), it's a terrific car but I suspect a lot of people buying a car in that class won't see past the badge. Honda had a similar issue with the Legend, the Honda Legend models tended to be beautifully made, well equipped and offered a lot more for the money than rival Euro marques but it always seemed like few could look past the badge.

Regarding Kia, it doesn't seem to have helped Hyundai that much selling their bigger cars as Genesis but there does appear to be some confused marketing going on, especially in the US.

[MJI]

Personally I agree with that sentiment but it was probably a very pragmatic and hard headed decision to launch a separate premium brand to get around badge snobbery, not just about selling a high end car under a mass market badge but also lingering prejudices against some of the Japanese brands in general. Nissan did the same thing with Infiniti, and Honda with Accura and as has been pointed out VAG do it with their upmarket Audi, Porsche, Bentley etc brands whilst also maintaining the budget Skoda and Seat brands below VW. There are other examples, Ford had their premier automotive group for a while (that never worked for them), Citroen has spun off DS as a brand in its own right, Fiat have Alfa Romeo and Lancia and so on. I kind of wonder if the KIA Stinger would have become more established in our market if they'd invented a new brand (or bought up a defunct old Euro or American one to use), it's a terrific car but I suspect a lot of people buying a car in that class won't see past the badge. Honda had a similar issue with the Legend, the Honda Legend models tended to be beautifully made, well equipped and offered a lot more for the money than rival Euro marques but it always seemed like few could look past the badge.

 

Nissans premium badge is GT-R.

 

I quite like the Stinger, shows the Koreans are getting better.

 

Honda is just Honda, nothing wrong with the name, I know a few Civic fans, their image issue is the wrinklies in small ones.

[jjb1970]

Regarding Kia, it doesn't seem to have helped Hyundai that much selling their bigger cars as Genesis but there does appear to be some confused marketing going on, especially in the US.

 

A friend of mine in Houston has a Genesis, he swears by it. I've only been in it as a passenger but from what I could see it was lavishly equipped with every toy you could think of and then some, loads of space and it all felt suitably premium.

Nissans premium badge is GT-R.

 

I quite like the Stinger, shows the Koreans are getting better.

 

Honda is just Honda, nothing wrong with the name, I know a few Civic fans, their image issue is the wrinklies in small ones.

 

No, the GTR is a car, the Nissan equivalent of Lexus (or Audi to VW) is Infiniti.

[giz]

A friend of mine in Houston has a Genesis, he swears by it. I've only been in it as a passenger but from what I could see it was lavishly equipped with every toy you could think of and then some, loads of space and it all felt suitably premium.

 

I wasn't implying there was anything wrong with the cars but like Citroen with DS, Genesis was originally a model that they've turned into a brand but they seem to have made a bit of a hash of it according to some US motoring websites.

[badgerV8]

Thought I'd throw in my "tuppenceworth".  Having spent a great deal of my life working on cars for a living and now working as a Vehicle Assessor, I've probably seen most fault trends on most vehicles.

My current car is my old company car which I bought from the lease company as it turned 3 years old, a 2015 Kia Cee'd Estate, 1.4 CRDi. It pulls well for its apparent small engine size, has no problems overtaking, returns 63+ mpg overall (including town, fast "A"-road and twisty-turny roads around the north of Scotland). It handles acceptably within the confines of our speed limits and the brakes are lovely - powerful and progressive with plenty of feel. It has a 7-year/100,000 mile warranty, no issues in 51,000 miles. My wife has an older Pro-Cee'd 1.6 CRDi, it's well over 130,000 miles now and has only needed a small switch on the clutch pedal (£25!) in all that time, other than normal wear & tear / servicing. My daughter has a Kia Rio 1.1 CRDi….. you can see the trend!

Yes, Kia and Hyundai are effectively the same company, most of the engine range is manufactured by Hyundai, the cars share common floorpans and underpinnings with slightly different outer panels and trim, yet Kia seem so confident of their product that they are prepared to give a longer warranty than Hyundai...

Within the next 12 months, I shall be buying another car - my Cee'd estate will go to the wife, I shall use her 2010 Pro-cee'd as a trade-in against a newer Pro-Cee'd for myself. The engineering quality of these cars really is so good, I would never ever contemplate anything from VAG (VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat) as we were forever seeing diesels coming into the workshop suffering with EGR faults and petrols with coil pack failures. I wouldn't touch anything French unless you like playing Russian Roulette with electrical gremlins and I wouldn't touch most modern Fords either - the Ka is now a Fiat 500 derivative with the usual dodgy Italian electrics, Mondeo's suffer from wheel bearing wear and suspension bushes (Focus suffers from suspension wear as well). BMW and Merc are just way too pricey for what they are, and let's not even consider the current abominations from Vauxhall, who's new models will undoubtedly be re-badged and slightly re-styled Citroen's now that ownership has passed that way!

So, as much as I was brought up on a staple diet of British Leyland (my father worked for them, so got good staff discounts!), Ford and Vauxhall, it's Kia all the way for me nowadays.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I find the French/Italian electrics thing rather bemusing/annoying.  Most European manufacturers use OE equipment from a number of suppliers including Bosch, Magneti Marelli, Valeo, Continental AG, Faurecia, etc. So what gets fitted in a French or Italian car also gets fitted in other brands from other countries.

 

The extended warranty thing is largely a marketing exercise. It has generally been used to increase sales or get a foothold into a new market. Given the Korean manufacturers probable lower production costs it is a good marketing policy as it attracts the reliability/cost conscious purchaser. GM had a five year drive train warranty in the US in the 1970's but didn't apply it to their relatively few sales in Europe where Chevrolet's, etc. carried the same warranty as Vauxhall and Opel products.

[James Makin]

That's really sad having to think about a 'last' car but if I did then I'd go for the best, most fun car I could afford that meets the level of practicality you're looking for, and if you're that kind of person, something that puts a smile on your face! Will you be relishing all those great times you've had eeking out the lowest pence per mile while on your deathbed?! (well, maybe some here might!!) 

 

I wanted to give a shout out to Ford as they can get overlooked, just sitting in the middle of the marketplace, not a prestige brand known for huge quality nor are they the cheapest or most innovative, but by in large making pretty reliable, functional and sweet-handling cars that do an effective job for a huge amount of people day in, day out with very little fuss or anyone raving on about them when these discussions come up!

 

I've owned 4 Focuses over the last 13 years now, covered about 200k miles collectively, had very few real problems and generally they've all been fairly cheap to resolve - the most common one as per an above posting is around suspension/trailing arm bushes & underfloor corrosion of heatshield panels on two of the cars but otherwise it has been a blast!

 

I have put the most miles on a Mk2 '57'-plate Focus ST which never let me down, and currently running a pair of RS' - the Mk3 RS is a great all-weather comfy performance hatch to make those dull Winter days even nicer! (at least it comforts the thoughts that us 'youngsters' may never get to retire ourselves haha!)

 

The new Mk4 Focus is very nice inside, and if they do a hybrid petrol/electric RS in a few years then it'd be a great car to have - and I'm still thinking about the aforementioned Mustang from earlier in this thread - now a US-spec 2013 Shelby GT500 with it's 662bhp would certainly help you collect the pension from the Post Office even quicker!

 

Cheers,

James

[Salmotrutta]

One of our neighbours just got a Tesla 3 as his last car and it's very impressive! He wasn't impressed when I called it a "TWSMO". Or a "That Will See Me Out".......

[rockershovel]

I strongly suspect that many electrical problems are due to under-specifying the harness and connectors to save a few pence. It’s a common feature of high-volume production.... Last year’s job (working for a rail sector electrical contractor) gave me an insight into this little-understood subject and it was quite instructive!

 

I didn’t realise the Ford Ka was now a Fiat derivative. My daughter-in-Law had one of the Fiesta-based ones and liked it, I always liked Fiestas... that’s my total knowledge of the subject...

 

I’ve never understood why a company of Toyota’s reputation, felt the need to have Lexus as a separate brand. Land Cruisers are right up there in the cost stakes, and THEY are badged as Toyotas...

[Fenman]

...

 

I have put the most miles on a Mk2 '57'-plate Focus ST which never let me down, and currently running a pair of RS' - the Mk3 RS is a great all-weather comfy performance hatch to make those dull Winter days even nicer! (at least it comforts the thoughts that us 'youngsters' may never get to retire ourselves haha!)

 

The new Mk4 Focus is very nice inside, and if they do a hybrid petrol/electric RS in a few years then it'd be a great car to have - and I'm still thinking about the aforementioned Mustang from earlier in this thread - now a US-spec 2013 Shelby GT500 with it's 662bhp would certainly help you collect the pension from the Post Office even quicker!

...

 

When Ford first designed the Focus, it was their specific intention to make it as easily accessible as possible for people with mobility issues - which was a pretty advanced piece of thinking in those far-off days. They succeeded. But then their marketing department decided it would be the kiss of death for the brand if they even mentioned that as one of its selling points, so they never did.

 

Now you write about it as a petrol-head's dream, so I guess the marketing people were onto something. 

 

Paul

[Peter Kazmierczak]

One of our neighbours just got a Tesla 3 as his last car and it's very impressive! He wasn't impressed when I called it a "TWSMO". Or a "That Will See Me Out".......

 

Surely ones last car will be a roomy hearse.

 

Plenty of room for the layout too.....

[Jol Wilkinson]

I’ve never understood why a company of Toyota’s reputation, felt the need to have Lexus as a separate brand. Land Cruisers are right up there in the cost stakes, and THEY are badged as Toyotas...

It is probably more about the image of Toyota not being sufficiently "High Class" rather than reliable, etc. Buying/leasing a "high end" car apparently implies that the driver is a person of importance and status, or so they think. People who buy less expensive cars sometimes go to great lengths to justify that decision on grounds of practicality, cost, reliability, etc. and so show what a sensible person they are.

 

Brand image has become increasingly important in today's society. For many people, what you wear, drink, drive, press to your ear, etc. is important in showing off their "worth" and position in society. "Vanity" number plates are a further example.

[The Dorset Wanderer]

Ford Kuga for distances and Focus Estate for the Railway layouts-best of all worlds-