Medstead and Four Marks - Before the preservationists...

[sem34090]

Hello all! 

 

I thought that I would start a thread on this through which I could ask sundry questions about the building of the layout. Prototype information won't be much of a problem, nor will access to the site, but technical aspects might be. Also I thought that some may be interested to see this project unfold.

I think the ideal way to start this thread is an introduction to the station and its history, of which there is relatively little to write about.

 

The station was the latecomer amongst the stations on the Mid Hants line from Alton to Winchester, opening three years after the other stations in 1868, when it was opened as 'Medstead' (The 'Four Marks' was added in 1937 as the latter settlement grew thanks to the railway). As best as I know the station was initially installed for timetabling reasons to provide a loop between Ropley and Alton utilising the only level track on that stretch of line. At this time there was a single siding into a small goods shed (set back from the station and still extant) served by a headshunt from the up line.

 

Several accidents have concerned the station over the years, and most are at least partially attributable to the station's location at the top of a 1 in 60 climb in both directions ('The Alps' as they are commonly referred to) and its being the highest station in Southern England at 644ft above sea level. An example of such an accident is the one that actually ended up 'occurring' at Ropley but was caused by actions at Medstead. This one is a less serious one, but is the only one I have so far found the accident report for. A more serious one 'occurred' at Alresford and if memory serves me correctly involved a goods train held on the 1 in 60 by a pair of 10ton brake vans that simply couldn't hold it there, resulting in the train careering 6 miles along the line before running into the dirt at Alresford.

The Ropley incident is detailed as follows by the Board of Trade:

 

Board of Trade (Railway Department)

8, Richmond Terrace, Whitehall, London, S.W.

January 21^st, 1901.

Sir,

I have the honour to report, for the information of the Board of Trade, in compliance with the order of the 2^nd instant the result of my enquiry into the causes of the collision which occurred on the 27^th December, about 5.10 p.m.; near Ropley, on the London and South-Western Railway.

In this case, the 2.45 p.m. passenger train from Waterloo to Southampton, on arrival at Medstead Station, had to detach its last vehicle, a horse box. After this was done and the train had started towards Ropley, the next station, the horse box took charge, and following the train down the incline, collided with the rear brake van at a point about 300 yards beyond Ropley Station.

The collision was fortunately not a violent one, and only five passengers complained of having been shaken.

One pair of wheels of the horse box was derailed and the buffers of the box and brake van were locked and damaged, but the horse appears not to have been injured.

No damage was done to the permanent way.

This accident and the previous one led to the LSWR extending the loop at Medstead to accommodate the longest goods trains between the down-end loop points and the siding points and the provision of catch points at the Ropley end of the Up Loop in 1901.

 

Not much appears to have changed at the station, besides the name, until January 1967 when the loop was closed, the signalbox closed and staff removed from the station. The station and the rest of the line closed in 1973, reopening under the MHR  on May 28th 1983. In the 1990s a footbridge (Using the main span from Cowes) was installed at the Ropley end of the station. Alongside the station is an expanded yard that is used by the railway's S&T and Wagon departments. The current stationmaster is Dr. Keith Brown.

 

Now, on to the model.

 

The idea for this was brought about on Saturday 22nd in a conversation with the stationmaster about how we could possibly entertain passengers further during the line closure between Medstead and Alton next year. I suggested that possibly a model railway display could be put together, for initial display in the Down Platform shelter with a view for permanent or semi-permanent display in the Goods Shed on the Up Platform. For us it made sense that the display should depict our station as it was in the past, to allow a comparison to the modern image of the station. Initial ideas have included automatic operation of the layout with a 2H DEMU alternating with a Pull-Push train (M7 Hauled), the pair passing in the loop. 

 

The shelf that this is intended to eventually sit on has dimensions of approximately 12ft by 2ft, but I am currently envisaging an overhang of 18 inches (supported by legs) to allow a circuit (at second radius) to be incorporated. The plan currently stands as below, though further conversations on Tuesday may change this:

Another option would be to model the station in 2mm, but the following count against this:

• 2mm is smaller and in some ways less suited to a permanent public display than 4mm.
• 2mm is less robust in some ways than 4mm.
• Most of us at Medstead are 4mm modellers.
• Suitable buildings and stock are more easily come by in 4mm.
• Some 4mm components have already been purchased or made.

Finally, a question - Does anyone know where we could source one of the Hornby Magazine-commissioned Skaledale models of our station building? It isn't completely accurate in every regard, but it's a very close match and could easily be adapted to more closely match the prototype.

[Miss Prism]

MRC Sep 1964 has an article on Medstead and Four Marks in one of its 'editor visits' series.

[Miss Prism]

MRC September 1964 has an article on Medstead and Four Marks in one of its 'editor visits' series.

 

[sem34090]

Thanks for that - It'd probably be worth finding that.

[Annie]

What a lovely station.  It's really good that it's been preserved and is being cared for so well.

[sem34090]

We try, we try, and it's always lovely to hear complements like that, even though I myself am not involved in the upkeep of the station. Although modern requirements have led to the Ropley end being changed beyond recognition, the station retains something of a "small country station atmosphere".

 

Hopefully the model will show that.

[Northmoor]

My favourite station on the Mid-Hants, a lovely place to sit and watch the world go by.  Must pop round when the trains are terminating there; with all the running round it'll almost be like 1986 when locos were changing from steam to diesel and vice versa. 

 

See if you can create a scenic break at the Ropley end (tall trees?) to hide the sharp curve, you can compress the distance to the bridge at the Alton end.

[sem34090]

It was always my favourite as a visitor, so I was glad that Mr Legg (Well, the operations department!) allocated me there! As you say - A nice place to sit and watch the world go by. 

 

Please do pop in and see us! I mean, we'll be rushed off our feet but all the same! You could even pop in tomorrow and have your last run up to Alton behind a 9F for a few years...

 

For the Ropley end I am certainly considering that, and at the Alton end the cutting will hide a lot of it. My logic at that end is that we're simply flipping the curve so that instead of curving South it curves North.

[RailWest]

>>>its being the highest station in Southern England at 644ft above sea level.....

 

Hmm, that depends upon how you define 'southern' England.

 

Princetown was generally regarded as the highest station in England IIRC, and on the "Southern Railway" that honour probably went/goes to Woody Bay :-)

[sem34090]

Yes, but we need some claim to fame!

[Oldddudders]

>>>its being the highest station in Southern England at 644ft above sea level.....

 

Hmm, that depends upon how you define 'southern' England.

 

Princetown was generally regarded as the highest station in England IIRC, and on the "Southern Railway" that honour probably went/goes to Woody Bay :-)

Southern England is not South West England, and vv. So the highest point in Southern England is Leith Hill, Surrey, at 960 feet.

[Bibby Line]

A very good friend of mine lived at Four Marks with his garden facing the railway line close to the station. He built a model of the Medstead and Four Marks station.

 

He was a very skilled man, amongst many other things, a draughtsman and he measured up and drew drawings of the buildings. He built most of the buildings etc. from those drawings.

 

If you can, please look at the December 2012 Model Rail Magazine that includes a 7-page article.

 

I believe that his wife might still have his scale drawings, if of interest, I would ask if he could copy for you.

 

I look forward to following your layout.

[Mallard60022]

>>>its being the highest station in Southern England at 644ft above sea level.....

 

Hmm, that depends upon how you define 'southern' England.

 

Princetown was generally regarded as the highest station in England IIRC, and on the "Southern Railway" that honour probably went/goes to Woody Bay :-)

 

Princetown is in the deep west dear boy and even Woody Bay is still west, as Dudders comments. The west begins after Bristol on the 'down'  and west of Weymouth/Portland Bill.

Southern England is that rich lump (except for a lot of Kent and some of Reading) south of Oxford and Cambridge, east of Bristol and Weymouth and even includes Essex

 .Ooop north, as we all know, is above Watford Gap on a map. Bedford doesn't know where it is and the 'Midlands' is a mystery.

Highest station in the south is...…….Box Hill?

A. Janner.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Mallard60022

[sem34090]

A very good friend of mine lived at Four Marks with his garden facing the railway line close to the station. He built a model of the Medstead and Four Marks station.

 

He was a very skilled man, amongst many other things, a draughtsman and he measured up and drew drawings of the buildings. He built most of the buildings etc. from those drawings.

 

If you can, please look at the December 2012 Model Rail Magazine that includes a 7-page article.

 

I believe that his wife might still have his scale drawings, if of interest, I would ask if he could copy for you.

 

I look forward to following your layout.

I remember that article and strangely enough we were talking about this layout only Yesterday when discussing the project for a 1930s-period model.

 

If you would be able to PM me the drawings that would be very much appreciated, even though we have ready access to the prototypes. Especially helpful would be drawings for the goods store on the up platform and the down platform shelter. We have the signalbox sorted already, and intend to source one of the Hornby models of the station building. 

 

Thank you very much indeed.

[jamespetts]

A very interesting project and one whose topic I had not spotted until now. One or two thoughts which may or may not be helpful, if I may. Firstly, I suspect that your leanings towards 4mm are correct; for a public display, which will include many people with less than ideal vision, a larger scale is likely to be preferable. It is very hard to get anything pre-nationalisation in 2mm scale (I looked into this extensively last year), whereas there are a wealth of Southern models in OO. It seems likely that you want to build this layout quite quickly, so it would make more sense to use the more popular scale.

 

The fiddle yards seem somewhat lacking. I cannot be entirely sure without checking the geometary, but at first glance there appears to be space at least to double the number of fiddle yard roads, which would greatly increase operating variety. One can never have too much fiddle yard, I think.

 

Also, you have incorporated the very sharp curves at the edges of the layout into the scenic section; that does give a bit of a toy train atmosphere; my own preference is to put the entrance to the fiddle yard before the sharp curves, although tastes in this respect vary, some preferring to have slightly more scenic space.

 

Automation is a very interesting idea, and one which I have looked into in some detail for my own planned layouts. What sort of operations did you wish to automate?

 

A layout based on the Meon valley line before preservation is of interest to me not least because of some recent discussions that I have been having on this forum with respect to how trains operating through the Meon valley line might have interacted with the imaginary location in which I plan to set my layout.

 

In any event, it will be most interesting to see this develop.

[sem34090]

Well the cost proposal for the layout is in 00, with 00 stock, so that's now settled.

 

There's not a huge need for masses of fiddle yard space, but we may add some in. every point is another £10 on the limited budget though.

 

The curves at the left may go, but on the right they may stay as far as the bridge that will provide a natural scenic break.

 

I'm afraid this isn't the Meon Valley line! That's long gone! Though I too am planning a fictional location with a branch from the Mid Hants for my Beauclere layout: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140953-beauclere-southern-railway-western-division-circa-1931/

[jamespetts]

Ahh, yes, of course - this is the Alton to Arelseford line; only Alton was part of the Meon valley route.

 

In any event, they are all interesting - I shall be intrigued to see how they develop.

[sem34090]

Indeed, though most of the Meon Valley line as far as Butts Junction still exists in some form, and certainly the formation up to that point could have track laid on it. Even with the bridge there being replaced allowance is being made for what was the Meon Valley line but would become an MHR loop or siding if relaid.

[Oldddudders]

Highest station in the south is...…….Box Hill?

No scientific study done here, but Tattenham Corner comes to mind.

 

Edit : Nunhead is a likely candidate for highest station in the London area.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Oldddudders

[sem34090]

"Further news from the alpine front, Sir!"

 

Plans are currently being drawn up (by yours truly) for a lever frame to work the layout with when it's either being operated properly at Medstead (I.E. with someone there running it) or at a show in the future.

[sem34090]

And further site surveys have resulted in an end to this project - We simply haven't got anywhere to put it!!!

 

There is another model railway project being developed in its place, so watch this space...

[sem34090]

This offers something of a hint, following that open-ended statement -

[sem34090]

You may laugh, Mr Northmoor, but rest assured that the above image represents a crucial part of the revised plans for a layout at Medstead!

 

[woodenhead]

8 hours ago, sem34090 said:

You may laugh, Mr Northmoor, but rest assured that the above image represents a crucial part of the revised plans for a layout at Medstead!

 

And the top of a skateboard affixed to the wall?

[sem34090]

Nothing to do with me!