Jeff Smith Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I have mentioned this on other threads but now want to consolidate into one thread. Having now acquired an unstarted K's bubblepack heritage 63xx I now need some chassis options for P4. Wheels will be Gibson, hornblocks, probably also sprung Gibson as I like to assemble wheels onto axles before installing on the chassis. Motor and g/b choice will come later. Options I know something about include the Gibson milled frames, designed for the above hornblocks, with 3,500 gal tender frames also available. The Comet chassis kit which includes coupling and connecting rods, slide bars, cylinders, etc, but I don't know if it can be built in P4 with compensation. So if anyone has additional suggestions or info about the above two I would be most grateful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Could the South Eastern Finecast chassis kit for the 61xx be modified to fit the 43xx? Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Jeff As most of the Comet Chassis can be built to P4 standards,I cannot think it would be an issue with this kit. You may have to buy P4 spacers and possibly the pony truck as these parts in the kit may only be for 00 gauge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I would send a quick email to Wizzard Models asking for a price for the 43xx chassis plus parts to build it to P4 standards, as I believe the kit will only have parts to build it to 00 gauge Frame spacers are the easiest bit, they do P4 pony trucks ( as they sell a separate pony truck fret with an 00 & P4/EM versions. Not too certain about the cylinders. The details on the website are a bit sparse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2018 No reason why you can't build a Comet chassis to P4 standards. Ullypug of this parish is doing this with an Ivatt 2-6-2T on his blog at the moment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 What an awful web site. The Comet kit is listed at £16.50 incl VAT. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/gwr-4300-2-6-0-frames-set-lf29/ It is listed as 00 so some additional P4 frame spacers will be needed. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) What an awful web site. The Comet kit is listed at £16.50 incl VAT. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/gwr-4300-2-6-0-frames-set-lf29/ It is listed as 00 so some additional P4 frame spacers will be needed. Gordon A Not really. All the information is on the Comet Models website including downloads and PDFs of the instructions. http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/ That's just the frames. The item needed is Chassis Kit LCP29 43XX 2-6-0 which is complete apart from motor, wheels and gearbox. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/gwr-4300-2-6-0-chassis-pack-lcp29/ And yes, they are designed for P4/EM and also for sprung axleboxes. I think the spacers can be exchanged when ordering. http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/Catalog/pdf/LF29.pdf Jason Edited December 30, 2018 by Steamport Southport Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I think the first issue of some kits were less adaptable than the modern ones. Certainly the pony truck etch has 2 trucks which covers all 3 gauges, a request swapping frame spacers may be the only requirement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Not really. All the information is on the Comet Models website including downloads and PDFs of the instructions. http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/ That's just the frames. The item needed is Chassis Kit LCP29 43XX 2-6-0 which is complete apart from motor, wheels and gearbox. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/gwr-4300-2-6-0-chassis-pack-lcp29/ And yes, they are designed for P4/EM and also for sprung axleboxes. I think the spacers can be exchanged when ordering. http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/Catalog/pdf/LF29.pdf Jason Jason, If anyone didn't know that the Comet site was still up with the info in sections that are easily manageable, and you went straight to the Wizard site, then YES it IS a terrible website! You do not have options on the site to filter a lot of stuff out of the way. That said they are great to deal with! Khris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Ok, thanks for all your inputs. Having read the instructions I'm wondering if the loco is meant to sit on the springs or fully compress them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Partially compressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Partially compressed. Fantastic, thanks, I assume these are the same as, or have been inherited by Comet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Jeff Ayers of Comet commissioned them, the product being shared with Brassmasters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 The link kindly supplied by Miss Prism states that the springs will fully compress for a six coupled loco at 1kg. My 63xx complete kit, including tender, weighs 0,68kg so I guess will be fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 The link kindly supplied by Miss Prism states that the springs will fully compress for a six coupled loco at 1kg. My 63xx complete kit, including tender, weighs 0,68kg so I guess will be fine. However, it appears that there is no provision for height adjustment. If the body ends up too high it would be difficult to lower it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 However, it appears that there is no provision for height adjustment. If the body ends up too high it would be difficult to lower it. Correct. That is one of the penalities of using that type of spring. A normal (CSB) approach is to build slightly too low, which then allows a slice of packing between chassis and body to get the correct buffer height. The coil spring approach should also be to build at correct height or slightly too low, but the only method of achieving this is varying the [equalised] weight over the drivers, which may not achievable in something like a Mogul. The typical fudge for the coil spring approach is to snip one loop off the centre spring coil, which will improve pitch stability, but increase the deflection on the drivers fore and aft of the centre driver. A more complicated strategy involves filing the 'top spring datum' line - not easy with the coil-holding tongues in situ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 A normal (CSB) approach is to build slightly too low, which then allows a slice of packing between chassis and body to get the correct buffer height. With the CSB chassis' I've built, once the weight is fitted in & centralised the CSB wire gauge is altered to suit to match the proper ride height. I don't see how a low chassis would work, as the cylinders are generally attached to the chassis so would then sit low? There are some good examples of both CSBs & Comet/Brassmasters/Markits coil sprung hornblocks on the clag.org website. There is also a Streamline Sheffield/John Brighton article online in pdf about building a Comet Ivatt class 2 tender loco with the coil springs. I'd also add to the general rule that Comet chassis' are designed to allow for P4, and frame spacers can be swapped at no extra cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I don't see how a low chassis would work, as the cylinders are generally attached to the chassis so would then sit low? I think you have misinterpreted what I meant by 'low'. I assume the OP would have read this: http://www.clag.org.uk/beam-annex3.html#vertical-adjustability Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 I think you have misinterpreted what I meant by 'low'. I assume the OP would have read this: http://www.clag.org.uk/beam-annex3.html#vertical-adjustability Actually I had not read that but it does look a bit complex for me. Having used the Gibson sprung horn-blocks before I might use them again. These have screw adjustment but are designed for the corner wheels to run on the screws with the springs pushing the wheels down for dips in the track. Centre wheels, as in an 0-6-0, can be set for up and down movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 Picking up this thread again, I have now settled on the build content. Comet complete chassis kit with sprung hornblocks, Comet tender chassis kit, Gibson P4 wheels, M1024 motor with Branchlines Multibox (53:1) and extender. The motor space is surprisingly limited and I wanted to drive the centre axle. An M1024 might seem a bit low power for a white metal body but this model won't see heavy service as most of my models go into a display case with only occasional running. The body has been assembled enough to ascertain the motor g/b space with a scale drawing. I also bought a s/h copy of Locomotives Illustrated for the GWR 2-6-0s and settled on 6363 so have ordered cab side plates from Modelmaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 Earlier this year I was able to see and photograph 5322 at Didcot. It has two additional round windows in the cab front. I cannot see this feature in any others of the class - anyone got an explanation for this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said: Earlier this year I was able to see and photograph 5322 at Didcot. It has two additional round windows in the cab front. I cannot see this feature in any others of the class - anyone got an explanation for this? Jeff, they were built with the porthole windows above the firebox and this feature was gradually removed from about 1925 onwards. Three things started to occur to GWR locos from around 1925 - the portholes were blanked over and new front plates were eventually fitted, a low vacuum pipe was fitted and heavier springs were fitted to tenders. The attached is a photo of one with the windows. Photo is from a negative I won on Ebay. Regards, Craig W 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 Craig, thanks, that's interesting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Jeff Smith said: Picking up this thread again, I have now settled on the build content. Comet complete chassis kit with sprung hornblocks, Comet tender chassis kit, Gibson P4 wheels, M1024 motor with Branchlines Multibox (53:1) and extender. The motor space is surprisingly limited and I wanted to drive the centre axle. An M1024 might seem a bit low power for a white metal body but this model won't see heavy service as most of my models go into a display case with only occasional running. The body has been assembled enough to ascertain the motor g/b space with a scale drawing. I also bought a s/h copy of Locomotives Illustrated for the GWR 2-6-0s and settled on 6363 so have ordered cab side plates from Modelmaster. Jeff Look forward to seeing the build, I have a couple of these kits to build/rebuild and also have a Comet chassis built to 00 gauge to fit a Bachmann body and tender, looking to build to EM gauge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 19 hours ago, Craigw said: Jeff, they were built with the porthole windows above the firebox and this feature was gradually removed from about 1925 onwards. Three things started to occur to GWR locos from around 1925 - the portholes were blanked over and new front plates were eventually fitted, a low vacuum pipe was fitted and heavier springs were fitted to tenders. The attached is a photo of one with the windows. Photo is from a negative I won on Ebay. Regards, Craig W Is that taken from Ponsondane level crossing? Regards Mark Humphrys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now