RMweb Gold longchap Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 I acquired via eBay, one of the revised S E Finecast kits for the GWR Metro Tank, the one with the etched nickle silver chassis. Unfortunately, the diagramme refered to in the instructions for folding up the chassis components is sadly missing and one of the more complicated parts needs a few folds. I've identified the parts I don't need for the other gauges and think I've more or less figured how to get the frames together, but would be most grateful if some tidy modeller still had a copy of the chassis drawing which they could post, so I could identify and put everything in the right place, including some of the smaller parts. What is the consensus regarding a ridged or sprung set up? I've not built a compensated, or indeed etched chassis before, this being only my second loco build in 35 years, but I'm reasonable competent, so will appreciate some advice on the subject. Many thanks, fingers crossed and Happy New Year to all. Chassis etch pic attached Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ianLMS Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 Have you e-mailed SE Finecast to see if they can send you a copy? http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/Locomotives/New%20and%20Revised%20Loco%20Kits%20Page%202.htm I built a SE Finecast 4F recently but stuck with rigid chassis. I may build up confidence to try a compensated/sprung chassis when I build my Millholme Patriot!! We'll see! Good luck and look forward to seeing it progress. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I suggest keep the front axle rigid, but use the compensation beams provided in the kit either side of the drivers. This will give 4-point compensation, which for a 2-4-0 can provide better lateral stability than 3-point. Normal tophat bearings can be used in the compensation beams, but I suggest thinning them to avoid axle-snatching when or if the beams move in opposition to each other. You'll probably need to thin them anyway to make space for the gearbox, which will need to float with its motor of course. I think if you wanted to spring the whole lot, you probably wouldn't be asking how to do it here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold longchap Posted January 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 Yes, I emailed them before Christmas and hope they indeed reply. However, I want to get a move on with the chassis built at least, before my UK trip later thius month, where I can obtain more parts I may need from the Eastleigh show and mayby a trip up to Finecast themselves, as I need a chassis for an 850 Class saddle tank, another older Wills Finecast bodyline kit I built over 30 years ago! I remember your 4F well and good luck with your Patriot build. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold longchap Posted January 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 I suggest keep the front axle rigid, but use the compensation beams provided in the kit either side of the drivers. This will give 4-point compensation, which for a 2-4-0 can provide better lateral stability than 3-point. Normal tophat bearings can be used in the compensation beams, but I suggest thinning them to avoid axle-snatching when or if the beams move in opposition to each other. You'll probably need to thin them anyway to make space for the gearbox, which will need to float with its motor of course. I think if you wanted to spring the whole lot, you probably wouldn't be asking how to do it here. Thanks Miss P and your are correct regarding comprehensive (currently too scary) springing! However, I'll be sitting in on one of the loco chassis demonstrations at the Eastleigh show and asking questions and will also enquire at Pendon when I attend one of their courses, both later this month. Their loco chassis construction weekend should dispel some of the mystery and fears. I'm attracted to springing, but above all want as reliable running as my skill level can provide! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ianLMS Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 I have recently picked up an old book by Iain Rice on 4mm Etched Chassis construction and he covers compensation/sprung chassis techniques extremely well. Might be worth seeing if you can pick up a copy from Ebay or a show if you intend going down that road. If I do attempt it on the Patriot I will definately use this book for guidance. Ian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold longchap Posted January 7, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) A good tip Ian and I'll be looking out for a copy at the Eastleigh exhibition at the end of the month, as the postage to France from Amazon and others is just silly. Best, Bill Edited January 9, 2019 by longchap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDaniels Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I acquired via eBay, one of the revised S E Finecast kits for the GWR Metro Tank, the one with the etched nickle silver chassis. Unfortunately, the diagramme refered to in the instructions for folding up the chassis components is sadly missing and one of the more complicated parts needs a few folds. I've identified the parts I don't need for the other gauges and think I've more or less figured how to get the frames together, but would be most grateful if some tidy modeller still had a copy of the chassis drawing which they could post, so I could identify and put everything in the right place, including some of the smaller parts. What is the consensus regarding a ridged or sprung set up? I've not built a compensated, or indeed etched chassis before, this being only my second loco build in 35 years, but I'm reasonable competent, so will appreciate some advice on the subject. Many thanks, fingers crossed and Happy New Year to all. Chassis etch pic attached I built a Wills (as it was then) Metro tank many years ago and updated it with the etched chassis. I like the prototype, a pleasant change from the 0-4-2T and they were, in their latter years, widely spread throughout the system. I also like the kit and it's nice to build a model that didn't have as many variations as the 517's. I wouldn't be too frightened about a compensated chassis. I have one loco using the CSB system, one sprung and all the others compensated.My Metro has the rear axle fixed with the compensating beam resting on the front driving axle and pony truck (not sure if that's the correct term). Kits that have provision for compensation are easier as they're designed with this in mind. The important thing is to ensure that the floating driving axle has no play within the hornblocks, time spent on ensuring this is well spent. Ignore anything you read about filing the bearing, I use grinding paste and moving the bearing up and down within the hornblock using the handle of a needle file. Also useful to scratch a "T" on one face of the bearing to ensure it goes into the hornblock the same way each time ("T" = top). The aim is to have the bearing sliding freely within the hornblock without any play. The rear bearings are of course fixed, the usual 1/8th inch bore top hat variety. It's also important to have the axle spacing jigs, these look like an extended 1/8th axle with the ends turned down. Put one of these through the fixed rear bearing, the other through the bearing and hornblock assembly (a spring is provided which goes over the axle in the middle of the frame to ensure the two hornblocks are firmly located against the chassis sides). Once you have done this, it can be a bit fiddly, fit the coupling rods over the extended axles on both sides and this will automatically ensure the bearings are in the correct position. Once this has been achieved simply solder the hornblocks to the chassis. This very simple jig ensures that the axle centres are exactly the same distance apart as the ccoupling rods. The compensating beam is simply a reasonably solid brass rod. The chassis should have holes showing where the fulcrum of the beam is located. I use a fine bore tube (Mercontrol point control tubing is ideal) and solder the compensating beam to this. The wire through the two holes in the chassis is threaded through the tube which therefore allows the compensating beam to pivot even though the wire may be soldered to the chassis sides. One final point, the holes in the coupling rods need to be slightly larger than normal to allow for the slight variation in the distance between the axles arising from the deflection. That in a nutshell is the way I compensate my locos. In many respects it's actually easier than a fixed chassis where the axles all have to be exactly in line. To my mind the improvement in running is worth the extra time. One point I forgot to mention, driving on the rear axle may mean the motor intrudes into the cab. I used a Portescap 1219 with the adapter (can't remember who did them) which pushes the motor farther back into the boiler. If you're confident with a soldering iron and have the few tools required an etched compensated chassis isn't too difficult. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold longchap Posted January 8, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 Thanks JD for your words of encouragement and while I'm not frightened of a compensated chassis, I'll admit to just a little aprehension in building one, due largely to it being my first! However, I'm looking forward to getting stuck in and as the kit is designed to accommodate compensation, I'm perfectly happy to spend the time in carefully installing it as you suggest. Following the Metro, I have an M&L 633 class with another etched chassis. This time, I have all the instructions! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 If you pm me an email address I can send you a copy of the destructions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold longchap Posted January 10, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 All sorted and now and well on the way to starting the Metro, as Lofty has kindly provided full chassis destructions, which makes everything clear now and I'll be taking my time to carefully add compensation. A start can be made after I collect a wheel set, motor and gearbox from Roxey Mouldings at the Eastleigh show. I'll then be learning how to weather stock with an airbrush a week later with Mr Bonwick of this parish, then a quick visit to Didcot to replenish my stock of real loco coal!. I'm even updating my handheld slidey weight riveting tool with a posherer lever operated embossing press. The Metro might look half decent after all that. Thank you everyone all for your advice and encouragement. Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 All sorted and now and well on the way to starting the Metro, as Lofty has kindly provided full chassis destructions, which makes everything clear now and I'll be taking my time to carefully add compensation. A start can be made after I collect a wheel set, motor and gearbox from Roxey Mouldings at the Eastleigh show. I'll then be learning how to weather stock with an airbrush a week later with Mr Bonwick of this parish, then a quick visit to Didcot to replenish my stock of real loco coal!. I'm even updating my handheld slidey weight riveting tool with a posherer lever operated embossing press. The Metro might look half decent after all that. Thank you everyone all for your advice and encouragement. Bill Bill You will need a set of London Road Models (or similar) Hornblock alignment guides, I think about £4 a set but invaluable in the set up of either the hornblocks or axle bearings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold longchap Posted January 10, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 Bill You will need a set of London Road Models (or similar) Hornblock alignment guides, I think about £4 a set but invaluable in the set up of either the hornblocks or axle bearings Thanks for the tip Hayfield and I've just ordered a jig and hornblocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Thanks for the tip Hayfield and I've just ordered a jig and hornblocks. I use them for rigid chassis building as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Just to revive this thread, I received my kit from Dave Ellis (Mr. SEF) this morning. Reading the instructions it soon became clear that the current ones are not complete, as longchap found out! There is no diagram of any style that shows the placement of the various components of the body and chassis. More importantly there are various letter references concerning making alterations to the cab, bunker, etc. to build variations present in this large class. I phoned Dave who said he would investigate and call me back. The upshot is that SEF don’t have any of the missing images in the files that they got when they took over the kits! Also I was the first person to point out the omission. The question is does anyone out there in RMWeb-land have a copy of the images that they could pass on? The body modification references are 1) A & B for having an open backed cab 2) C for changing the bunker front shape The chassis instructions refer to a diagram about the fold-up spacers but this is also missing! TIA, Tim T Modelling South Wales branch-lines in EM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Thanks to Coachbogie I now have the body diagram. Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted January 29, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2023 On 04/01/2019 at 17:31, Miss Prism said: I suggest keep the front axle rigid, but use the compensation beams provided in the kit either side of the drivers. This will give 4-point compensation, which for a 2-4-0 can provide better lateral stability than 3-point. Normal tophat bearings can be used in the compensation beams, but I suggest thinning them to avoid axle-snatching when or if the beams move in opposition to each other. You'll probably need to thin them anyway to make space for the gearbox, which will need to float with its motor of course. I think if you wanted to spring the whole lot, you probably wouldn't be asking how to do it here. @longchap and I are of to Missenden soon to finally build our Metro tanks. I wonder if anyone has a photo of a completed, compensated SE Finecast chassis for one of these. Its not at all obvious to me from the diagrams included exactly how to use the two compensating beams provided. From this thread it seems the top hat bearings go into these beams but what then goes into the chassis plates? If the rear axle is driven and fixed do the top hats on this axle go through both the chassis plates and the compensating beams? Hopefully @t-b-g will know all that is needed but I just wanted to ensure I had all the bits I might need before setting off. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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