Permenant exhibitions and visitor attractions

[Ian_M]

I'm a long time lurker here, rarely posting.

 

Over the Christmas break I've been pondering whether there's much future in my current IT career, and considering whether I could be my own boss for a while in a different field.

 

The plan that's starting to take shape in my head is to open a 'visitor attraction' based around some good quality, entertaining, model railways.

 

Some years ago I visited "the wonderful world of trains and planes" in Birmingham which is close to what I'd like to replicate. Unfortunately it seems they had cash flow and premises issues which meant they had to close. Another example is at Fort Victoria on the Isle of Wight. I'm aware of Pendon but have not yet managed a visit. Also aware of the plans for Ashford in Kent.

 

I'm wondering if anyone can help me with some research and recommend any other model railway visitor attractions that I could look at.

 

For the moment I'm just pondering and probably don't have enough capital to take it much further, but if anyone has other advice to new business start ups (particularly the retail side of things) then feel free to PM me!

 

Thanks

 

Ian M

[MarkSG]

A few thoughts. In general, running a visitor attraction - of any type - as a standalone business is hard, because you need a certain minimum number of paying visitors to cover your costs, and you're unlikely to have those in the early days. Most successful small-scale visitor attractions tend to be adjuncts to an established and successful business, such as a shop or a farm.

 

A good example of that in the model railway field is Bourton Model Railway, which is essentially a few rooms at the back of an existing model shop. Which, for what it is, does quite well. It's not up to Pendon standards of finescale craftsmanship, and it's nowhere near Miniatur Wonderland when it comes to the wow factor, but it does show how you can make a small scale visitor attraction a commercial success. It does help, though, that it's located in a village which is a major tourist destination, and just down the road from several other important visitor attractions. Which is another thing to consider - a visitor attraction needs footfall, and, unless you are big enough to be a destination in your own right, you need to be somewhere that already has a pool of visitors to draw on.

 

The other way of doing it is to make it essentially volunteer-run, which cuts down costs considerably. That's how Pendon works, for example. But that's not an option if your goal is to make it a sustainable business as a replacement for your current career. 

[F-UnitMad]

Someone apparently said that the best way to make a million pounds in model railways is to start with Ten million.

 

If Pete Waterman had to pull out of/close down his JLTRT O Scale kits company, that shows how hard it can be.

The trouble with permanent model railway exhibitions is that it's always the same, more or less, so to my mind only worth going once, if at all. To be honest, once I'd seen the Birmingham exhibit online, for me there wasn't enough any "wow" factor to make me want to see it for real.

Consider - would people go to a club Exhibition year after year if it was always exactly the same layouts every time?

For me the standard would have to be Pendon/Minatur Wonderland as well. There are permanent layouts at Mevagissy (along with a full-RRP Shop) and Lynmouth. Ok this is my opinion & mine alone, but the one at Lynmouth in particular was pretty mediocre, I thought. Only ever went to either once. However, when my summer holidays have coincided with one of the Hayle Club Shows, I've always gone there.

[Ian_M]

Thanks for the info so far. I'd not come across the Bourton one before. Any others spring to mind?

 

I'm based in York, which does have some railway linked tourism already... I agree that it's a risky business and there's a high chance of losing everything. The difficulty seems to be making the correct predictions of footfall. A crystal ball seems to be the most reliable method available.

 

I think a model shop, also with gift type stuff, would need to be a part of the experience. It's almost expected to have a shop in every museum or similar nowadays. I wonder what sort of profit these type of mini shops actually make?

[The Johnster]

Now, I am by no means anyone you should take any notice of when it comes to business planning, but I would be asking the question 'who do I think will pay to see my permanent exhibit'.  They seem to come in 3 basic types; 1) Pendon type layouts, serious modelling for serious modellers who are aware of it's existence, a fairly defined and predictable customer base, 2) Mevagissey type touristy layouts, to be honest not very good and trying to capitalise on providing trippers with somewhere to go out of the rain, and 3) the mega-complex very intricate and showy 'German' minatur vonderland types.  

 

If you want to do serious or at least semi serious modelling in this way, presumably so that you can build a big layout that will at least partly pay for itself, I would be looking to 'piggyback' it on to an existing railway attraction that already draws a sizeable number of the sort of knowledgeable people who will appreciate it and not mind paying at the turnstiles.  You need to be open and operating at the same times as the piggy whose back you are riding, which will probably be a preserved 'heritage' railway or similar set up, and this will have implications for staffing, maintenance, and running costs, with a trade off of cost between staffing with operators and automating with computers.  'Open every weekend in the season' won't be enough!

 

The shop needs to be a pretty good one in it's own right, offering a full range of models and materials at competitive prices to draw the crowds in.  This will be effectively a separate business needing it's own staff and budgeting.  Offering a basic range and staging the odd loss leader to drum up trade won't cut the mustard; the shop needs to be a serious player with a good showroom and an online presence.

 

The big German exhibits show the sort of scale at which you have to operate for this to be viable, and fairly shamelessly play to the tastes of the general public.  They are complex and sizeable businesses in their own rights, employing full time expert staff to  keep them running.  I do not want to rain on your parade, but I can't see this being a success in the UK.

 

These are only opinions of course, and as I have stated I am not someone whose opinions in this field should be taken any notice of.  I genuinely wish you the best of luck should you proceed with this project; given your location the NRM or NYMR might be worth approaching.

Edited January 5, 2019 by The Johnster

[Steamport Southport]

Thanks for the info so far. I'd not come across the Bourton one before. Any others spring to mind?

 

I'm based in York, which does have some railway linked tourism already... I agree that it's a risky business and there's a high chance of losing everything. The difficulty seems to be making the correct predictions of footfall. A crystal ball seems to be the most reliable method available.

 

I think a model shop, also with gift type stuff, would need to be a part of the experience. It's almost expected to have a shop in every museum or similar nowadays. I wonder what sort of profit these type of mini shops actually make?

 

Wasn't there a model railway exhibition next to the station in York?

 

The fact it's no longer there may be a good indication on how successful it was...

 

 

 

Jason

[MarkSG]

The Mevagissey and Bourton exhibitions are, I think, the only way it reliably works on a small scale. Essentially, you have a shop, in a tourist area, and the exhibition is really just a way of bringing more people into the shop, which is your primary source of revenue. But that really only works if you have a shop in a tourist area. I don't think it would work somewhere where there isn't the footfall to be attracted through the doors. 

 

Other than that, the only two successful (so far) business models seem to be either really big (Miniatur Wonderland) or really high quality (Pendon). But neither of those would be within the reach of a sole trader or family business.

[Slug]

What happened to the model railway attraction that was next to the station in York?

 

I heard that it was forced out by high rents, I assume it couldn’t find anywhere else suitable in York. I was under the impression that it was going to relocate elsewhere, but I don’t know what happened.

 

Apologies in advance if any of the above is incorrect.

[MarkSG]

Wasn't there a model railway exhibition next to the station in York?

 

The fact it's no longer there may be a good indication on how successful it was...

 

York Model Railway left because the lease on their premises expired and the landlords wanted a higher-paying customer. It didn't fail as such, it just lost its venue. But that wasn't really a business, it was more like a permanent club layout open to the public. I don't think the operators made much money out of it.

[ardbealach]

There is also one at Betws y coed station with layouts, model shop and outdoor miniature railway.  (AM)

[phil_sutters]

I suspect that to make a model railway or group of model railways of good enough quality to become a visitor attraction would take a major investment of both time and money before you can even open the doors to the public. In the past there have been model railways as attractions for holiday-makers at the seaside, usually on or near the seafront, but I don't recall seeing any recently.

 

In this area of Sussex the Eastbourne Miniature Steam Railway is primarily a 7.25" steam railway with scale locos and ride on coaches. It has a small model section. I only have a photo of the N gauge layout, but there may be more. The other outfit is the Brighton Toy and Model Museum, which has an 00 scale layout and a large tin-plate layout, as well as a large collection of model railway stock in a number of scales. In both cases the layouts are a small part of the total.

 

This is part of the large tin-plate layout.

Edited January 5, 2019 by phil_sutters

[great central]

There's this one in Norfolk, set up as a side project by the owner of a transport company I think. Stand to be corrected.

One or two members on here were involved in the building of the layouts I believe, maybe they can offer some sort of insight? I went once shortly after it opened, in truth can't say I was particularly impressed and unlikely to visit again.

 

Edit: a read through the about us section of the website could give some idea of what is involved.

 

http://wroxhamminiatureworlds.co.uk/contact-us/

Edited January 5, 2019 by great central

[Blue Max]

There is a large layout running at Trago Mills, Newton Abbott, well I believe it is still running? 

[Steamport Southport]

There is a large layout running at Trago Mills, Newton Abbott, well I believe it is still running? 

 

Ah! The infamous Trago Mills of Mock The Week fame.

 

 

 

Jason

[hmrspaul]

York Model Railway left because the lease on their premises expired and the landlords wanted a higher-paying customer. It didn't fail as such, it just lost its venue. But that wasn't really a business, it was more like a permanent club layout open to the public. I don't think the operators made much money out of it.

York would be very difficult. Rents are very high, but the main problem would be that the NRM is free and has a model railway - and the person mainly charged with keeping it going finds it difficult to obtain stock that will keep up with the daily running. York has so many attractions that few visitors manage even a few, and several small exhibitions have closed.

 

As it was, the replacement of the model railway is one of the most interesting, expensive and successful alcohol outlets in a city stuffed with similar. But it is the only one where it is possible to sit on the platform and watch the trains go by! I know which I prefer.

 

Paul

[Ian_M]

Thanks again for the examples, and the healthy dose of realism. My number crunching show that rent, rates and wages are indeed the major challenges.

 

I'll continue with my research for now - I'm certainly not going to rush into anything right now.

 

Are there any model shop owners who are willing to share turnover and average spend figures?

[polybear]

Model shops are closing left, right and centre.  That's a clue.

I suspect the the best one way would be to take on an established niche range and have an on-line presence, along with perhaps Exhibition attendance with a trade stand.  But it's not easy (ask C&L) and you're very unlikely to get rich.  It'll be hard enough just making a living as a sole income.  Think hard and do a lot of research would be my advice.

[Neil]

Thanks again for the examples, and the healthy dose of realism. My number crunching show that rent, rates and wages are indeed the major challenges.

 

I'll continue with my research for now - I'm certainly not going to rush into anything right now.

 

Are there any model shop owners who are willing to share turnover and average spend figures?

 

The problem with a model shop in York is that it would be competing with the excellent Monk Bar Models. Other model shops in York have come and gone, none have lasted the course. I'm not sure that the city has sufficient trade to support more than one.

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks again for the examples, and the healthy dose of realism. My number crunching show that rent, rates and wages are indeed the major challenges.

 

I'll continue with my research for now - I'm certainly not going to rush into anything right now.

 

Are there any model shop owners who are willing to share turnover and average spend figures?

 

I doubt anyone would share figures in the way you are thinking of but a number of model shops are registered at Companies House and their outline accounts are published there however at east two of them also offer their own 'exclusive' r-t-r models plus you also need to be aware of their trading policies as you look back at past year's figures.  Here is an example although in the case of some concerns only a limited amount of information or balance sheet will be submitted so it is difficult to ascertain turnover figures -

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05131251/filing-history

[peterl]

There are two permanent model railways on display in the Museum in Immingham N.E.Lincs. The Museum is in the Civic Centre along with the library etc and next to a largish retail area. Doesn't actually make any money although they now hold a model railway show each year to raise funds for the Museum.

Peter

[Jonboy]

Anyone mentioned Peco-Rama yet as a permanent exhibition example?

 

The big issue with experience based businesses is you either pay big for a good location with high natural footfall, or you spend the difference in rent between a cheaper premises and such a location on marketing to create your own footfall.

 

If you haven’t got good parking within 200 yards as well then it’s almost certainly a non-starter.

[ullypug]

In my youth I worked at the model railway in Weston-super-Mare in the mid-late 1980's. This was in sea-front premises leased from the council. The owner (Brian Oliver) used to open at Easter, then close until Whit week after which he'd stay open until the end of the tourist season at the end of September.

He used to have to take work over the winter months, but he made a living out of it. I believe he was involved with a similar set up in Torbay somewhere back in the 1960's.

Although a tourist attraction, the theme was the history of railways, so you had Rocket and Locomotion on the top level, running down to modern image on the lower levels. I really wish I'd taken photos back then.

I remember the layout was based on a series of loops on different levels, each with multiple trains on each, something like 40-50ft long by about 15ft. In some cases up to a dozen running on loops, shuttles back and forth. Control was traditional with reed switches under the track and magnets on the rear coaches breaking loops into sections and triggering switching to adjacent sidings via old Post Office relays.

Brian sold locos from display stands but it wasn't really a shop as such.

It really was an ideal job really!

[blueeighties]

Opening a shop or exhibition attraction in the current market is a very risky venture, if not actual commercial suicide. The high street is dying, as Dylan once Said, The Times They are A Changin. Not wanting to appear overly negative, but I run a (thankfully), very successful model railway customisation business, online. It's got to the point where I have wondered if it's time to look at retail premises due to business growth, but trade friends, some of who own shops, have told me to avoid like the proverbial plague.

[PaulRhB]

To be honest the only way I could see it making enough money would be as part of a group of attractions that draw in the overall footfall and if cheap enough they choose to pay to go in. Grabbing their attention over the others is the challenge to get them in. The business is also going to be highly seasonal as tourists are where the money is for such an attraction so the winter is likely to be slow unless the attraction itself draws in Christmas crowds and you can cater for that market too.

One I used to be involved in was a miniature railway in a country park. The shop stocked model railways because the owner wanted to, they didn’t make the real money consistently. The various Thomas themed products, diecast toys, flags, hats and books and general tourist, ‘I’ve been at the Country Park’ products outsold the model railways but the greatest profits were in the cafe. If you’re in a group of attractions that includes a known coffee chain then that’s probably a non starter. The railway itself drew people in because it runs around the main part of the park with a station at the play park and picnic field so is visible to the majority of visitors and the main station is designed to get people off and they have to walk past the cafe! It took a huge investment from his previous successful business to build it up. So the park creates the footfall and the mile run the advertising draw to that big crowd with a savvy idea depositing them at the shop and cafe. It’s really run by five people with part time and seasonal staff of about 10 then around twenty volunteers who run the 7 ¼ inch trains for fun, the volunteers aren’t going to be so easy to find to run set display layouts.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I've been pondering whether there's much future in my current IT career, and considering whether I could be my own boss for a while in a different field...

 

 Can you use some of your present skills to produce something uniquely different in the UK? An exhibit demonstrating packaged layout automation solutions and supporting services as your USP. I suspect you would have to cover wireless/rechargeable as well as good old DCC. (Making it easy for the customer to spend money on achieving their goal is a proven plan if the demand is sufficient.)