Magnorail moving car system

[NIK]

Hi,

 

Re how to bridge baseboard joints:

 

I don't know the force involved in pulling the chain along or the dimensions of the chain links but might magnets be inserted into the middle of a chain link so the link can be separated?.

 

A 6mm diameter 4mm long N52 Neo magnet has a pull of 1.37Kg.

 

Would have to arrange the chain guides so two magnetic pair links aligned at a baseboard.

 

I think the system allows more than one motor to drive the same chain providing they all run at the same speed so at least one motor per baseboard may help.

 

An alternative to magnetic joints in the middle of a link might be a screwed joint in the middle of a link. Take up the roadbed at the baseboard joint (hard to avoid this bit), run the chain until the screwed joint links (marked with bright paint) align with the end of the board, unscrew the halves with an electric screwdriver and put in pins to secure the chain ends to the baseboards for transit etc.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[rue_d_etropal]

Quote

The regular return loop wheel on Magnorail is 52mm diameter so you can run two straight lanes between them at  about 62mm centres even where the motor is situated. On my N dogbone track I have narrowed the lanes to about 30mm centres to suit the scale.

I seem to remember hearing that in the layout I was referring to, a new gear wheel , smaller  was built . 

I was talking to one of the group involved in that layout(operating not building ), and he said it was one chap who built the roadway and only he knew the details. I am sure I read something about it in one of the magazines.

[47137]

I feel like a little boy opening his first train set. A box full of parts to build into something mine.

 

The road surface will end up most of 8 mm above the baseboard when the Magnorail track is surface-mounted. The minimum radius of the Magnorail chain is going to be about 55 mm when the chain is running in its track, reducing to about 30 mm in the 180 degree return loop. Both of these radii seem fine to me, and I will be able to fit just over a metre of chain into my rather confined site.

 

For a car turning at a mini roundabout, I'd like to modify the 180 degree turn so it is more like 210 degrees, to follow the splay of the edges of the road.

 

This is looking good. I will have about a metre of chain and track left over to add to another starter kit, to go onto my next layout one day.

 

- Richard.

[Mike Harvey]

Good luck with the installation. I am sure it will be possible to get the 210 degrees roundabout without too much trouble. There is a short learning curve getting the knack for joining and installing the road sections, and joining up the chain links. Look forward to seeing it working in due course.

[47137]

On 16/10/2020 at 22:23, Mike Harvey said:

Good luck with the installation. I am sure it will be possible to get the 210 degrees roundabout without too much trouble. There is a short learning curve getting the knack for joining and installing the road sections, and joining up the chain links. Look forward to seeing it working in due course.

 

As far as I can see, I must have one accessible and unmodified return loop so I can connect the final link in the chain.

 

I also need an gap (an oversize hole in the baseboard) beside the motor drive assembly so I can extract the entire chain if I ever want to rebuild it with a different sequence of links.

 

Does this sound correct?

 

Many thanks,

 

- Richard.

 

[Mike Harvey]

Richard

 

I load up the chain and join the links through one of the return wheels. The links need to be at 45° to each other for joining up anyway so there is no real advantage in doing this at the motor.  Doing it on the return wheel base provides a solid work platform. Anywhere else you are dangling the chain above the channel with potentially dire results if the assembled chain slips to one side.  Don't ask how I know. With the return wheel removed there is space to lay the links at 45° to each other and feed the chain on towards the motor. You can change the sequence and spacing of the magnet links on the wheel by having a few spare links with the different magnet spacings to give a float.

[47137]

I have built a prototype in barely an afternoon. It is a very simple scheme but I have got to think, the Magnorail is a marvellous system:

 

The idea is to test this track thoroughly and then use the paper template to rebuild it on the layout.

 

Question. It would be good to get the magnets arranged with "north" facing upwards to match up with the Magnorail standard and let me use a RTR bicycle or someone else's model. My kit arrived with its twelve magnets all stuck together in a block. To try to find the "north face" I have floated them in water on a slip of card:

 

If I adjust the card and wait a few minutes, the block always ends up with the six smaller magnets pointing towards the left (as in the photo), which happens to be towards the compass north. So - please, can someone try this out and tell me, does the "north face" indicated this way stick to the underside of a RTR bike?

 

- Richard.

Edited October 21, 2020 by 47137

[Mike Harvey]

I have to confess that I did not worry too much about N and S conforming to the Magnorail standard. I did as you have done and then made a reference magnet, basically a magnet embedded in a piece of foamboard with N written on it in Red. Thereafter I marked the magnets by attaching them to the reference and colouring the end pointing away from the reference in red. . All my red ends point towards magnetic north. I am only using cars, trucks and buses so I just make sure that the road magnets have a red magnet facing up ahead of a red magnet facing down in the direction of travel. For the slider the same convention applied red up ahead of red down. Sometimes I put the slider on the wrong way round when changing a vehicle. After a few inches travelling in reverse I discover the error and flip the slider through 180° horizontally.

[47137]

I bought the "bicycle" starter set even though I wanted to run a model car - the bike set seemed like better value for money and it comes with the medium speed motor. So I have had to make my own vehicle slider:

 

This is for a 1:87 scale Mini. I took a piece of 1/4 in. wide brass and whacked in two detents 18 mm apart. 18 mm to match the Q and R links. I took a length of 1 mm square brass rod, put it in the mini drill and turned one end down to make it round. Folded to an L shape and soldered this to the brass. Then added two round magnets using the magnets in the chain to align them.

 

Looking at the Magnorail instructions, I drilled a hole in the underside of the car just behind the front axle:

 

Unfortunately, the sled comes into a view on a sharp curve (38 mm radius to centre of channel):

 

So I put the sled into one of the pre-existing holes under the car:

 

This runs beautifully. The rear wheels limit the sideways movement of the sled, and it stays out of sight.

 

I guess I must build one of the bikes now and have it on the track some distance away from the car.

 

- Richard.

 

 

[Mike Harvey]

My sliders all have the locating peg back and front outboard from the magnets, so two holes in the underside of the vehicle, and reversible if the magnet polarity is the wrong way round. Pleased that Magnorail is fulfilling its appeal.

[47137]

I cannot help thinking, an installation of Magnorail has a great deal of appeal over the narrow gauge feeder we used to include in our standard-gauge layouts. With a 30 mm minimum radius (on the 180 degree return loop), even a micro layout can have a bit of working roadway. Fun to build and something to hold the attention of a viewer between the trains.

 

I suppose, my next challenge is to devise an application for the 400 mm or so of channel and chain and the spare return loop I have left over. Perhaps something to shuttle backwards and forwards, operated by a servo with a long actuating lever.

 

- Richard.

Edited October 22, 2020 by 47137

[Mike Harvey]

1 hour ago, 47137 said:

 

I suppose, my next challenge is to devise an application for the 400 mm or so of channel and chain and the spare return loop I have left over. Perhaps something to shuttle backwards and forwards, operated by a servo with a long actuating lever.

 

- Richard.

Have you room for a short funicular?

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

Have you room for a short funicular?

 

Depends which trousers I put on.

 

Mike.

[47137]

8 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

My sliders all have the locating peg back and front outboard from the magnets, so two holes in the underside of the vehicle, and reversible if the magnet polarity is the wrong way round. Pleased that Magnorail is fulfilling its appeal.

 

I have assembled my first cyclist. The Magnorail rather lost its appeal for the duration. She pedals along ok when the motor is running flat out, and stops pedalling when I reduce the speed. A bit uncanny really.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

17 hours ago, Mike Harvey said:

Have you room for a short funicular?

 

Not really. The landscape is supposed to be a mixture of reclaimed land and marshes. I do however have room for a mini digger, shuttling backwards and forwards between a hole in the ground and a pile of earth. Needs a bit of thinking through but I like the idea.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

On 22/10/2020 at 21:08, 47137 said:

 

I have assembled my first cyclist. The Magnorail rather lost its appeal for the duration. She pedals along ok when the motor is running flat out, and stops pedalling when I reduce the speed. A bit uncanny really.

 

- Richard.

 

I have tackled both cyclists, neither with any great success:

 

My first one (left in photo) pedals some of the time but the legs tend to go backwards at the knee and "lock up". My second one (on the right) never pedals and the legs keep falling off at the hips, but this build looks like it is closer to the instructions.

 

I wonder if anyone can suggest which arrangement of the upper legs is correct?

 

- Richard.

[Enterprisingwestern]

15 minutes ago, 47137 said:

I wonder if anyone can suggest which arrangement of the upper legs is correct?

 

 

NHS replacement hips?

 

Mike.

[47137]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

NHS replacement hips?

 

Mike.

 

The NHS would do a better job than me. I have reached a personal limit in the hobby - I don't have the fine motor skills to put these together and make them work.

 

Never mind - I bought the Magnorail kit to run a model car not cyclists.

 

To everyone reading this: I'm not trying to put anyone off. Magnorail is a marvellous system and, like all kits, can work wonders in the right hands. The cyclists are a small part of what it can do; and you can buy cyclists "ready to run" too.

 

- Richard.

Edited October 25, 2020 by 47137

[Mike Harvey]

Looking at the cyclists thighs, as you say, one set is on the wrong legs. I don't know if the video on this page might help. Based on the original version but the principle is probably the same.

 

https://www.magnorail.com/en/faq

Edited October 26, 2020 by Mike Harvey

[47137]

At times like this I think it is best for me to remember what I am trying to do. I want a car having a test drive and doing a U-turn at a mini RA. This is fair enough; but really, cyclists don't do this. However appealing the models. So I've put my cyclists to one side, and I can call my prototype "finished".

 

I've posted up the details on my layout topic - I think they are more relevant there and I musn't  start cross-posting.

 

- Richard.

Edited October 30, 2020 by 47137

[47137]

I wonder, does anyone have first-hand experience of using reed switches with Magnorail?

 

I have three magnets in my chain. Two placed with north upwards, for a model car; and one placed with north sideways, to trip a reed switch.

 

So far, one of the two car magnets trips the reed switch perfectly, the second car magnet trips the switch after a fashion but with a high electrical resistance, and the dedicated "sideways" magnet has no effect at all!

 

- Richard.

[Mike Harvey]

I have not used reed switches. Maybe worth rotating the reed 90° along its axis to realign the contacts.

[47137]

I made two mistakes at the same time. I muddled up the link with the "switch" magnet with one of links with a "car" magnet. And I had managed to get the "switch" magnet polarised along the length of the chain, not across the width of the chain.

 

With these put right, the multimeter obligingly shows a pair of short circuits when the "switch" magnet goes past (the magnet trips one reed then the next) and ignores the "car" magnets altogether. 

 

This seems a good time to set things aside for another day, but I have given the "switch" magnet a blob of bright yellow paint.

 

- Richard.

[Mike Harvey]

Pleased you got it sorted. Magnets, of course, have a mind of their own. I converted some N Fleischmann Profi couplers to magnetic operation. Magnetic repulsion was being used to actuate the uncouple function. The couplers had 1mm diameter x 1mm long magnets in them for which the orientation of the poles was critical. I devised a reference magnet, picked up the 1mm magnets from it with a scalpel, and , hopefully, wiped them into a predrilled 1mm hole in the coupler the correct way up. Worked 95% of the time but there were still a few strays. :-)

[47137]

I think I am heading in the right direction, but I want my reed switch to be much more reliable. At the moment, it trips when the chain is running fairly slowly, but doesn't trip at higher speeds.

 

I am using an Arduino (not a multimeter) to try to detect switch closures.

 

I can think of plenty of questions, but there seems to be a dearth of quality technical information out there. For example,

• should I be using a particular type of reed switch?
• should I be cutting away the side of the Magnorail channel to get the switch closer to the magnet?
• if not, how about putting a second reed switch on the opposite side of the rail, wired in parallel with the first?
• maybe the Arduino isn't fast enough to spot a closure of a fraction of a second?
• or is there indeed a maximum speed at which this sort of magnet/reed switch combination will work, and I have already found it?

If there is a resource out there, preferably in writing with pictures rather than a video, I will jump on it.

 

I've pasted the sketch in below in case this is relevant. It is my very first bit of embedded code, and at the moment it seems more reliable than the hardware!

 

- Richard.

 

int switchState = 0;
void setup() {
  pinMode(3, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(2, INPUT);
}
void loop() {
  switchState = digitalRead(2);
  //
  if (switchState == HIGH) {
    // switch contacts are closed
    digitalWrite(3, HIGH);
    delay(1000);
    digitalWrite(3, LOW);
  }
}

 

Edit

After posting this lot, I returned to the model and cleaned a scrap of hot glue out of the Magnorail channel. This seems to have made reliability far better, but I don't really understand why. Operation with the chain running at around 120 mm/s is fine, and this is all the speed I would want. At the moment, adding a second reed switch on the opposite side of the channel and wired in parallel with the first looks appealing.

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by 47137
See footnote