TrainController UK price hike

[Crosland]

Yes , but only from the last year or so , in relation to digital sales , ie where no physical product is shipped , require you to compute the vat of the country of destination and not the country of origin ( which is the case for physical sales , below a certain annual threshold )

 

Agreed, but I thought Train Controller was based on a physical USB key for licensing.

[beast66606]

Agreed, but I thought Train Controller was based on a physical USB key for licensing.

 

It is - one of my arguments with him, if you're at an exhibition and the key breaks / gets stolen then you are stuffed, I asked if there was a way to get a temporary license from the website for say 48 hours to cover this - he really went off on one at that suggestion.

[RFS]

Agreed, but I thought Train Controller was based on a physical USB key for licensing.

 

It is, but only when you buy a full licence for the first time. I got my USB stick when I first upgraded to version 7 from 5.8, which just used an emailed key and which was obviously open to being used by more than one person. Thereafter, paid-for upgrades to versions 8 and 9, and from silver to gold, just consisted of an emailed licence key.  I assume the software licencing works on the basis that the emailed key for the upgrade only works with the specific USB stick originally purchased.

Edited January 16, 2019 by RFS

[WIMorrison]

The USB stick is known as a dongle and is actually very a old anti-piracy technique that has largely been dropped in favour of more effective software based protection methods.

 

I used to see this a lot, and I can’t recall any program (other than TC) that still uses this way of working.

 

What this suggests to me is that the underlying code base is old

Edited January 16, 2019 by WIMorrison

[RFS]

The USB stick is known as a dongle and is actually very a old anti-piracy technique that has largely been dropped in favour of more effective software based protection methods.

 

 

Software-based protection methods usually require connection to the internet which is not a requirement of TC. I suspect many users of TC have separate, dedicated PCs for running TC in their railway room that do not have internet connection. Furthermore, I would think anything that complicates Mr Freiwald's operation in this area is likely to be anathema to him!

 

The advantage of a physical dongle is that you can move it from PC to PC easily. 

[WIMorrison]

They generally require internet connection to register the software not to activate the licence for the software which has the algorithms to unlock and prevent duplication built into the software.

 

Also as most people download the software via the Internet - and use email, etc for support I think you will find that the incidence of a totally dedicated, model railway computer is very low

 

I do agree though that making life easy for users isn’t high on Herr Freiwald’s list of priorities

Edited January 16, 2019 by WIMorrison

[melmerby]

They generally require internet connection to register the software not to activate the licence for the software which has the algorithms to unlock and prevent duplication built into the software.

 

Also as most people download the software via the Internet - and use email, etc for support I think you will find that the incidence of a totally dedicated, model railway computer is very low

 

I do agree though that making life easy for users isn’t high on Herr Freiwald’s list of priorities

Hi Iain

The advantage of the dongle is that someone might have a home layout, exhibition layout also working on something at a club.

Only the dongle needs to move, it can be used on any PC

Using other methods would require three licences, surely? (unless the PC is moved to each layout!)

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[WIMorrison]

The iTrain licence allows you to install the software on as many PCs, Macs or Linux devices as are owned by the licence holder. I use it on 2 different devices and can network them together to have multiple people operating the layout at the same time

 

Perhaps Dhr Berkout is more trusting of his customer base than Herr Freiwald

[Andymsa]

Maybe we should be asking ourselves will TC users upgrade to v10 if it's released, or will users just stay with there current versions. What will users look for, ease of the upgrade dealing with an agent or not knowing who's liable for issues as this appears fluid. TC was expensive enough already for the gold version but with 15% added this I believe has pushed it out of reach of many except those with deep pockets. What does the future hold for TC only time will tell, but any business that's shrinking doesn't bode well or sells its products to a country based on that country's political views is madness. Any upgrade would need to be something special I think for users to consider even upgrading.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Andymsa

[melmerby]

Maybe we should be asking ourselves will TC users upgrade to v10 if it's released, or will users just stay with there current versions. What will users look for, ease of the upgrade dealing with an agent or not knowing who's liable for issues as this appears fluid. TC was expensive enough already for the gold version but with 15% added this I believe has pushed it out of reach of many except those with deep pockets. What does the future hold for TC only time will tell, but any business that's shrinking doesn't bode well or sells its products to a country based on that country's political views is madness. Any upgrade would need to be something special I think for users to consider even upgrading.

IMHO the upgrade from V8 to V9 was somewhat underwhelming. It did offer some useful upgrades but did not seem as much of an advance as from V7 to V8.

I'm unlikely to upgrade any further unless some earth shattering additions are part of the package.

I made a suggestion to the Forum wishlist ages ago to add support for multi-track traversers & sector plates (As at Birmingham Moor Street & Snow Hill) but nothing ever happened, I was expecting it to be included in V9 when extra support for such things as sector plates was announced - but no. A trick missed.

 

Keith

[Alan Kettlewell]

IMHO the upgrade from V8 to V9 was somewhat underwhelming. It did offer some useful upgrades but did not seem as much of an advance as from V7 to V8.

I'm unlikely to upgrade any further unless some earth shattering additions are part of the package.

I made a suggestion to the Forum wishlist ages ago to add support for multi-track traversers & sector plates (As at Birmingham Moor Street & Snow Hill) but nothing ever happened, I was expecting it to be included in V9 when extra support for such things as sector plates was announced - but no. A trick missed.

 

Keith

 

I too think about skipping upgrades (unless free) but I worry a bit about getting too far behind and then the cost to upgrade across several versions to the latest might be a big expense all at once.  Also a concern that older versions may eventually become unsupported.   So although a bit trapped into it, I'm happy to keep bang up to date and upgrade as they occur.  I reckon I've spent about £1000+ on the software (including +4D Sound) since 2005 so I may as well keep going - and I love it anyway so I just put up with the owner's lack of manners.

 

Cheers … Alan

[Alan Kettlewell]

Hi Iain

The advantage of the dongle is that someone might have a home layout, exhibition layout also working on something at a club.

Only the dongle needs to move, it can be used on any PC

Using other methods would require three licences, surely? (unless the PC is moved to each layout!)

 

Cheers

 

Keith

 

 

The iTrain licence allows you to install the software on as many PCs, Macs or Linux devices as are owned by the licence holder. I use it on 2 different devices and can network them together to have multiple people operating the layout at the same time

 

Perhaps Dhr Berkout is more trusting of his customer base than Herr Freiwald

 

I use my USB Licence/Dongle on two computers - on a dedicated laptop down in the shed which is too far anyway to connect to the web, and I bring it up to the house to use on my PC where I'll do any updating as and when, but I also carry a separate USB memory stick with a copy of my Train Controller file on it so I can do any amendments to the layout, construct new schedules, test new ideas etc whilst away from the layout.  It works for me and I maintain awareness of it's value as a licence key so I'm careful to look after it like it was a £500 note!   

 

I've heard about incidences where a dongle has been stolen at shows, or lost or damaged, however I've never seen nor heard of what the outcome has been when RR&Co have been approached regarding the loss, and replacement.   Possibly, replacements may have been made free of charge (I don't know) but if so I could understand the company may want to keep that a bit quiet to discourage carelessness - I mean just carelessly losing the thing as opposed to outright theft or damage which perhaps can't always be managed.

 

A little bit off topic but just general discussion offered about it.

 

Cheers … Alan     

[Andymsa]

I use my USB Licence/Dongle on two computers - on a dedicated laptop down in the shed which is too far anyway to connect to the web, and I bring it up to the house to use on my PC where I'll do any updating as and when, but I also carry a separate USB memory stick with a copy of my Train Controller file on it so I can do any amendments to the layout, construct new schedules, test new ideas etc whilst away from the layout.  It works for me and I maintain awareness of it's value as a licence key so I'm careful to look after it like it was a £500 note!   

 

I've heard about incidences where a dongle has been stolen at shows, or lost or damaged, however I've never seen nor heard of what the outcome has been when RR&Co have been approached regarding the loss, and replacement.   Possibly, replacements may have been made free of charge (I don't know) but if so I could understand the company may want to keep that a bit quiet to discourage carelessness - I mean just carelessly losing the thing as opposed to outright theft or damage which perhaps can't always be managed.

 

A little bit off topic but just general discussion offered about it.

 

Cheers … Alan

 

Hi Alan,

 

Regarding returning a damaged USB stick, I had another member state that he returned his stick and could even prove it arrived in Germany. But it got lost somewhere there. Freiwald would not replace it and the user ended up buying another. So if I were to return it I would chose the most expensive option then insure it aswell. I think I remember that all you need to do is pay for the he cost of a blank USB and it would be sent once old stick had been received by friewald.

[melmerby]

I use my USB Licence/Dongle on two computers - on a dedicated laptop down in the shed which is too far anyway to connect to the web, and I bring it up to the house to use on my PC where I'll do any updating as and when

 

Cheers … Alan     

How far is too far?

Mine is 75 feet away from the house with a dedicated PC networked using home plugs. With my fibre broadband I still get 40+ megabits download speed.

 

Keith

[Talltim]

Perhaps it’s good not to have internet in the railway room.

[Andymsa]

How far is too far?

Mine is 75 feet away from the house with a dedicated PC networked using home plugs. With my fibre broadband I still get 40+ megabits download speed.

 

Keith

My railway room is 80 ft away. When I built it I had the foresight to put hard wire network cables in, the cable length is around 150ft with redundant backups that is run underground in dedicated cable runs. These are separate from the mains power feeds to the railway room. Edited January 18, 2019 by Andymsa

[WIMorrison]

Perhaps it’s good not to have internet in the railway room.

Why on earth shouldn’t you?

[RFS]

Why on earth shouldn’t you?

 

Because you end up browsing places such as Hatton's and Rails, which can become quite expensive … 

[Talltim]

Or spend all your modelling time on RMWeb and get nothing done!

Edited January 18, 2019 by Talltim

[model-trains]

If I was in my train room I would be playing with my trains.  

 

Browsing can be done in the home later, on the laptop, mobile or tablet. 

 

My internet is supplied to the garage via an ethernet cable from the house, using a T-Link wi-fi extender, to get a strong wi-fi signal across the bungalow, from the router to the wall closest to the garage/train room, the ethernet cable then goes through a cavity and single brick wall and connects directly from the T-Link extender to the PC.

 

I wouldn't be without internet access, but for me my train room is for building the layout, playing trains and building scenery for the layout.

 

It is always handy to have the forum available though LOL. 

[Alan Kettlewell]

How far is too far?

Mine is 75 feet away from the house with a dedicated PC networked using home plugs. With my fibre broadband I still get 40+ megabits download speed.

 

Keith

Tis 40 yards from the rear of the house to the shed and the broadband box is in a room near the front of the house. However I don't have much need to be on the net while I'm down the shed and I find it easy enough to bring the laptop up to the house if ever I need to connect it to the net - but I don't need to very often. If I have a need to look up something on the net while I'm down the shed, sometimes handy for modelling references, then I use my smartphone.

 

All in all I'm quite happy with that arrangement - works for me.

 

Cheers ... Alan

[njee20]

I use powerline adapters to get wifi in the garage, works well, sounds like it may be what Melmerby uses too. It is noticeably slower; c85mpbs in the house versus c40mbps in the garage, but as that's more than enough I've never spent time trying to optimise or improve it.

[melmerby]

I use powerline adapters to get wifi in the garage, works well, sounds like it may be what Melmerby uses too. It is noticeably slower; c85mpbs in the house versus c40mbps in the garage, but as that's more than enough I've never spent time trying to optimise or improve it.

It depends on the distance.

Originally I was told be "those in the trade" that homeplugs (such as my Devolo dLan 200) only work on the same RCD in the consumer unit.

So I tried using the adapter I was already using indoors down in my railway room. No problem.

The router is on one RCD, the railway room is on another and even has another RCD in the satellite consumer unit in the railway room itself, so three in total.

Incoming router speed around 75-76 mbps (up to 80 Mbps broadband package) around 40mbps after going through three RCDs and 75 feet of SWA cable (plus various amounts of 2.5mm T&E).

 

I tried using straight wi-fi to the router, but even using a dedicated aerial pointing at the router from the railway room didn't produce a satifactory signal. (too many brick walls)

 

Keith

[WIMorrison]

Keith

 

I believe it is the ELCB that knocks out the powerlinevsignal rather than the RCD, I can get a signal between RCD protected circuits (as you can) but an ELCB stops them, as does an electricity meter.

 

Also latest devices using MIMO can get very high speeds with much less degradation, but you will always get the speed of the slowest device so you cannot upgrade just one or two devices as these will be held down at the speed of the slowest that you have in the network.

 

Iain

[melmerby]

Hi Iain

 

I would have thought that the (Voltage controlled) ELCB would have an easier signal path as it is straight through a pair of relay contacts whereas a Current controlled ELCB (RCD) has to go through transformer windings nas well.

 

Cheers

 

keith