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TrainController UK price hike


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23 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

 

Thanks for the info. Yes I have seen this survey on the forum regarding if connected to the internet. This causes me concern as well as it has been mentioned here and by various people and vendors that he might be winding down these days and let's be honest we are not getting any younger.

 

It smacks of someone with a pet project that they won't let anyone else in on.

If/when he decides to give up, is there anybody else to take the helm?

TrainController has been going for some time (Version 1 was January 1995) and by now he should be only the figurehead of the company with others doing the day to day running but I get the impression he is still very hands on.

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I think that part of challenge maybe getting someone to take it on in the present guise because the codebase is very old and almost nobody writes using those frameworks anymore because most stuff is now written to be cross-platform.

 

That said, someone would buy it - if only just for the customer base, then update the code into a more modern cross-platform framework then provide a conversion and upgrade path for existing users - that is of course assuming that Mt Freiwald is willing to sell which could be another completely different story ;) 

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1 hour ago, peach james said:

There are times I am glad I stuck with 5.0 :)  No Dongle, just a pass code...which I have both electronically and written down.

 

James

 

Indeed I still have my 5.8 licence key along with the downloaded file and manual so if I'm ever in this situation again in the future, and TC is no longer being supported, then I have something to fall back on.  I had started to worry during this incident that I wasn't going to get a replacement dongle so I did check out my 5.8 version and it still works on the latest Windows 10.  But the layout plan would have to be redefined from scratch.  I reckon 70-80% of what I use is in 5.8 still. 

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2 hours ago, RFS said:

 

Indeed I still have my 5.8 licence key along with the downloaded file and manual so if I'm ever in this situation again in the future, and TC is no longer being supported, then I have something to fall back on.  I had started to worry during this incident that I wasn't going to get a replacement dongle so I did check out my 5.8 version and it still works on the latest Windows 10.  But the layout plan would have to be redefined from scratch.  I reckon 70-80% of what I use is in 5.8 still. 

And you can still download ver 5.8 here:

https://www.freiwald.com/pages/download58.htm

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2 hours ago, RFS said:

 

Indeed but I'm covering myself against the situation where Freiwald ceases trading and the website goes offline …..

 

There are other methods which would remedy his business ceasing, but if he did cease and the software was not to continue at the very least some sort of unlock code would be developed I would like to think. But knowing how he behaves at times I'm not thinking this very likely.  But it m not going to right off software which was fairly expensive in the first place.

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On 10/04/2019 at 09:10, Andymsa said:

 

Just wondering in what way did the stick die. This is something that has concerned me, in that if mr freiwald ceased trading for what ever reason and the stick subsequently went wrong you are stuck with an expensive doorstop. I would ask him this question but I know I won't get a good reply.

A scale model door I assume? :crazy_mini:

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This has got me to thinking regarding USB defects and time layout would be down. I'm going to get I- train aswell why is that, well there is so much uncertainty with traincontroller and it's future and I do have serious concerns in running the layout without software. I do prefer traincontroller but I have to be realistic. So once version 5 of I-train comes out I'm getting it, this would also give time in learning it.

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That seems crazy. You're spending loads of money on the vague notion that one day a sequence of events may happen that could cause you a problem?

 

That's not realistic at all IMO!

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10 minutes ago, njee20 said:

That seems crazy. You're spending loads of money on the vague notion that one day a sequence of events may happen that could cause you a problem?

 

That's not realistic at all IMO!

 

 

Its not that crazy as it seems mr freiwald is not getting any younger and as been pointed out the code for the program is rather dated and who will take on the further development of traincontroller, I hope someone does. The program does what I want as for many others aswell and has taken many years for me to get the design and operation as I want it. Now with ITrain to get the same or similar operation as I have with traincontroller will involve a steep learning curve. Yes I can wait until something happens with traincontroller but will then have to design and debug itrain at that time which will take out any automatic operation of the layout for some time. But if I start now there won't be as much work involved and I'll have a good idea how the itrain program works. This is not an ideal situation but the facts are what they are, also of late it has become apparent that some downscaling appears to occurring in my opinion.

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But your purchase is predicated on:

 

1. Traincontroller ceasing to be available

2. Herr Friewald not putting in provision for existing users in perpetuity when 1) occurs.

3. both of those occurring and then your existing USB stick breaking


That's 3 things that need to occur for you to have to switch. Buying I-train now to prevent the fallout from all of those occurring, which seems unlikely at best doesn't seem realistic to me. Even if that did happen 10 years down the line what if there's a far better alternative by then, you've paid for I-Train for years for no reason. It's your money though.

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32 minutes ago, njee20 said:

But your purchase is predicated on:

 

1. Traincontroller ceasing to be available

2. Herr Friewald not putting in provision for existing users in perpetuity when 1) occurs.

3. both of those occurring and then your existing USB stick breaking


That's 3 things that need to occur for you to have to switch. Buying I-train now to prevent the fallout from all of those occurring, which seems unlikely at best doesn't seem realistic to me. Even if that did happen 10 years down the line what if there's a far better alternative by then, you've paid for I-Train for years for no reason. It's your money though.

 

The license fee for iTrain is a one time payment and equates at most 2/3 locomotives in cost. So in relative terms is a small amount considering what my whole layout is worth. If you have ever had dealings with mr freiwald you would understand the concern here. It's a bit like the titanic waiting until you need those lifeboats then it's too late. It might be a waste to some, but I'm trying to be proactive and not wait until it's a problem. Of course I may be proved wrong and I hope I am but I'll have piece of mind in any case.

Edited by Andymsa
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2 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

 

The license fee for iTrain is a one time payment and equates at most 2/3 locomotives in cost. So in relative terms is a small amount considering what my whole layout is worth. If you have ever had dealings with mr freiwald you would understand the concern here. It's a bit like the titanic waiting until you need those lifeboats then it's too late.

 

I wonder how long it will before the makers of iTrain realize, like Herr Freiwald when he reached version 5.8, that a licence key sent by email for a one-time payment is open to abuse by people passing the key on to their friends. After all, even for iTrain a single licence fee is a lot of money. 

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1 hour ago, RFS said:

 

I wonder how long it will before the makers of iTrain realize, like Herr Freiwald when he reached version 5.8, that a licence key sent by email for a one-time payment is open to abuse by people passing the key on to their friends. After all, even for iTrain a single licence fee is a lot of money. 

 

 

The difference here is that even if Itrain went over to a USB stick there is a good uk seller of itrain that seems to give it good support. A somewhat different situation for traincontroller where it has to be sent back to Germany.

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2 hours ago, RFS said:

 

I wonder how long it will before the makers of iTrain realize, like Herr Freiwald when he reached version 5.8, that a licence key sent by email for a one-time payment is open to abuse by people passing the key on to their friends. After all, even for iTrain a single licence fee is a lot of money. 

 

I think that you will find that Dhr Berkhout is rather more trusting of his userbase than Herr Freiwald ;)

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2 hours ago, RFS said:

 

I wonder how long it will before the makers of iTrain realize, like Herr Freiwald when he reached version 5.8, that a licence key sent by email for a one-time payment is open to abuse by people passing the key on to their friends. After all, even for iTrain a single licence fee is a lot of money. 

 

1 hour ago, Andymsa said:

 

 

The difference here is that even if Itrain went over to a USB stick there is a good uk seller of itrain that seems to give it good support. A somewhat different situation for traincontroller where it has to be sent back to Germany.

 

31 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

I think that you will find that Dhr Berkhout is rather more trusting of his userbase than Herr Freiwald ;)

I think some had found a way to hack the code to make it licence key free.

From what I can understand the current arrangement is harder to crack.

 

The arrangement with TrainController is that the new UK agent is now responsible. Just how responsible remains to be seen.

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13 minutes ago, melmerby said:

 

 

I think some had found a way to hack the code to make it licence key free.

From what I can understand the current arrangement is harder to crack.

 

The arrangement with TrainController is that the new UK agent is now responsible. Just how responsible remains to be seen.

 

But who are digital river who are apparently the uk agents for traincontroller. I had not heard of them and I don't know if there are individuals you actually deal with, it certainly does not fill me with confidence for sure.

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32 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

 

But who are digital river who are apparently the uk agents for traincontroller. I had not heard of them and I don't know if there are individuals you actually deal with, it certainly does not fill me with confidence for sure.

*IIRC Digital River have always dealt with Freiwald's software but were irrelevant to the customer in the past as Freiwald was the official seller.* (see Edit)

 

A division of Digital River is now the official seller (re-seller?) in the UK. It's a change in the legal status.

 

Digital River:

https://www.digitalriver.com/

Some really big names use them.

 

EDIT* I'm having second thoughts about that as I think my memory may be playing tricks! I have thought Freiwald used them in the past when it possibly wasn't so.

 

I have definitely had some downloads from Digital River rather than a named company.

However only the licence code is sent from Freiwald and all my records show the originating address as Freiwald, Egmating DE

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On 06/01/2019 at 21:42, Andymsa said:

The name of the reseller is ShareIt. I have googled them and can't find any info about them and any connection to selling Traincontroller, so I am at a loss to what extent any support or comeback you would have. Freiwald has stated that the contract to buy will be with them, but you still get the download from freiwald. Personally I like to know whom I'm dealing with. As to phone support I'm of the opinion there won't be none

 

On 06/01/2019 at 21:49, WIMorrison said:

http://www.shareit.com redirects to http://www.mycommerce.com which is a Digital River platform used by several companies to receive payments internationally - think of it like Paypal for companies.

 

These aren't agents as we understand, they are merely a transaction processing company and your contract will still be with RailRoad and Co, though at the increased price :(

 

I am only guessing that this is what he means, and given his statements, I could well be very wrong.

 

On 06/01/2019 at 21:55, RFS said:

 

My understanding is that Sharelt is just the handling agent for the sale, and therefore will not be providing any technical support which will still be via Freiwald. If you have issues or questions, by far the best way is to raise them on the forum.  Freiwald prefers it that way as your question and answer is seen by everyone else on the forum and hence the knowledge is shared. 

 

I kknow it was 3 months ago but ...

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5 hours ago, Andymsa said:

 

The license fee for iTrain is a one time payment and equates at most 2/3 locomotives in cost. So in relative terms is a small amount considering what my whole layout is worth. If you have ever had dealings with mr freiwald you would understand the concern here. It's a bit like the titanic waiting until you need those lifeboats then it's too late. It might be a waste to some, but I'm trying to be proactive and not wait until it's a problem. Of course I may be proved wrong and I hope I am but I'll have piece of mind in any case.

I understand all of that, but there’s essentially no benefit to buying I-Train now. It’s not lifeboats on the Titanic at all, because you can still get the metaphorical lifeboats after the ship has sunk! It’s akin to filling your car with petrol and then buying a full Jerry can at the same time, in case your car develops a leak and there’s a fuel shortage at the same time. Still, like I said, your money, just seems crazy. Just deal with that issue if it arises, the value of your layout is irrelevant. 

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Software is not the same as hardware, the cost of the software development is fixed, the same cost if you sell 1000 copies into the market or 10 million copies,  the more copies sold, the the cost per copy drops until the amortisation of development cost drops down to mere pennies per copy. Freiwald are talking up their product, perhaps there product is slipping in the face of free to "download and use" open-source DCC train control  programmes

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22 minutes ago, Pandora said:

Freiwald are talking up their product, perhaps there product is slipping in the face of free to "download and use" open-source DCC train control  programmes

I doubt it.

It's only the UK where there is now a real price difference with the rest of Europe and that is partly due to Herr Freiwald's political views than anything else. (who else would bar sales to US states that voted Trump?:excl:)

JMRI, probably the best open source program,  is way behind. Yes, it does an awful lot but Traincontroller is IMHO much friendlier from an operating point of view. JMRI still comes across as mainly a "computer geeks" program.

JMRI needs much more work from the user to do many things.

BTW I still use JMRI Decoder Pro and did have a play with JMRI before I opted for TrainController.

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  • 1 month later...

I have raised illegal discriminatory pricing with my local MP, what Feiwald is doing is illegal under EU law 

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm

 

My MP has writen back to me, this is what he wrote

 

 

Thank you for your recent email regarding the single market and member states charging different prices.

I have raised your case with the Minister at HM Treasury raising your query and asking for his response.

As soon as I have a reply I will let you know.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

I have also contacted The European Consumers Council 3 times and no reply. they appear to be useless.

 

https://www.ukecc.net

 

As soon as I find out more Ill let you know, I wouldn't purchase anything from this company, its now a matter of principle for me.

 

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5 hours ago, PeterCB said:

... I wouldn't purchase anything from this company, its now a matter of principle for me.

 

Understandable, and were I in the UK I would do the same, but I suspect it is exactly the outcome he wants.  

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