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Hornby - New Tooling - Terrier


Andy Y
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Blimey, I wasn't expecting that!

 

But I'm still holding out to see who announces some Isle of Wight versions first...

Yes it's a shame that both Rails' and Hornby's are of similar configurations and neither have yet offered any long bunker versions which would suit the IoW etc.

 

Chris KT

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I've already got two on order from Rails, and have paid the £30 deposit for each, so looks like I'm going to have to stick with Rails for now, which looks to be a shame from the photos above.  Let's wait and see for the reviews.

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And still no umber version!

Indeed! Ideally that's what I'd need too! That said, 655 is at least 655 not simply 55, so it's a bit later. Still a bit early for me but I may try and get one anyway. Then sell one of my old tooling ones. Or my K's one.

 

Looking at both makes of small tank locos in recent times, Hornby's will have more weight while Dapol's will be easier to fit DCC sound.

 

Mind you the appearence of a 6 pin chip in their range will help.

 

Glad Hattons had a sale as it postponed my 2 deposits I planned for Rails versions.

 

Note: Rails do outside condensor pipes which does not appear on the Hornby ones.

That might be because, by the time 55 had been renumbered 655 the condensing pipes may have been removed, as did happen.

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It's an interesting price point it is coming in at, not only have Hornby by the looks of it got to market first (the Dapol version was just a cab at Warley wasn't it) they have also beaten it well on price too.

 

A shot across the bows, not only does Hornby not want to lose models but it is fighting back on price too.

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I was on the verge of ordering a couple of the Rails / Dapol Terriers, but will wait to see what Hornby's are like before deciding.

Choice is all well and good, but the potential profit loss to both parties due to duplication is worrying. 

I hope Rails and Hornby don't fall out over the Terrier the way Hattons and Bachmann seem to have over the 66

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In regards to the recent Hornby announcement. We can confirm that the NRM/Dapol/RAILS terrier project will definitely still go ahead. The project is well advanced and more updates will follow in due course.

 
Rails always welcomes competition, we feel the product will stand the test against others in relation to quality, accuracy and fidelity.
Edited by Oliver Rails
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Indeed! Ideally that's what I'd need too! That said, 655 is at least 655 not simply 55, so it's a bit later. Still a bit early for me but I may try and get one anyway. Then sell one of my old tooling ones. Or my K's one.

 

That might be because, by the time 55 had been renumbered 655 the condensing pipes may have been removed, as did happen.

 

My comments refer to general possibilities. For example Rails do Bodiam with condensor pipes while Hornby offer Rolvenden without. Both A1 locos in service on the KESR in 1905 (and a very tempting complimentary pair they make too).

None of the 5 Hornby offers have condensors so maybe this is a detailed area for Dapol/Rails to explore (Fenchurch would be good choice right now) that Hornby "maybe" excluded from their detail options in their tooling. A voir...

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It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at Rails and Dapol today.

 

I wonder if Rails will lower the price of their version? Assuming the £30 deposit for the Rails version is non refundable, and you decided to cancel your order, You would only need to pay an extra £9 to get a Hornby Terrier and that is at RRP with discounting you might be better off.

 

I’ve got a whole lot of the old Terriers, I’m hoping that eBay prices for the older ones will drop considerably so I can buy a few more of the ones with obscure liveries.

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Well, I have a sound-fitted Terrier on pre-order at Rails but still welcome the Hornby versions. As there are DCC-fitted versions, one or two might keep the Rails one company in future...

 

Still remain surprised that nobody has offered a J69 yet, though... Bachmanm have a small LNER tank in the J72, and I get the feeling that Oxford have "lost interest" to some extent since their boss took a job at Hornby.

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If they're due here in a few weeks - Andy's post says that the first 3 variations will be in the shops in February and the other 3 in April - it certainly won't be Hornby pulling out, they must be nearly on a ship by now!

 

boat from china is around 4 weeks so mostly already on there way

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I have had a quick look and offer this initial assessment of what Hornby has shown us. On the whole they look very good and the pre-Grouping choices seem to represent the chosen conditions well. I was expecting the RAILS/Dapol to be a show stopper, so a very interesting comparison is in the offing. I’m certainly going to keep the RAILS/Dapol ones on order, but will probably add a couple of the Hornby ones to the roster in due course. 

 

655 Stepney 

 

Note this is far from the persevered/Thomas the Tank condition, which is essentially that of an A1X in anachronistic Improved Engine Green.  Hornby depict a pre-Grouping  in-service model, in line with the welcome recent trend for doing so.  Hornby, I think, first did this with the SE&CR H Class.

 

The condition depicted is typical of the appearance of the class from the 1890s to the application of the umber livery from 1905 in that it lacks the condensing pipes.  In general these were removed when class members went into the works to have 14” cylinders fitted.  In the Case of No.55, this was in 1894.

 

Here, though, we have the re-numbering to 655.  This was part of the first series of re-numbering, taking place 1900-1902 and done to make numbers available for new Billinton B4 locomotives.  B4 No.55 was completed in July 1901, so that might indicate when Stepney was re-numbered, and, indeed, Middlemass in his book states that Stepney was duplicate listed in June 1901.

 

The new numbers were applied in a number of ways.  Probably the most professional-looking form was the use of gold transfers in place of the old brass plate.  This was the case with Stepney.

 

I have seen three photographs of Stepney in this condition.  None show the buffer mounted front outer lamp irons depicted on the model.  The rear splasher intruding into the cab appears over large, but perhaps this is intended as a necessary design compromise, if, indeed, it is any more than an optical illusion.  The guard irons look wrong to me; chunky and oddly cranked compared with the elegance of the originals. Other than these relatively minor issues, I am most happy to say that I have spotted any problems with the tooling. 

 

I suggest the logical date for a repaint into umber was upon conversion for motor train working, which, in the case of 655, was in 1907.  As such, it contrasts nicely with the RAILS/Dapol 1880s condition A1 with condensing pipes and iron brake shows.

 

The moronic Era system merely tells you that the loco ran in this condition at some point between 1875 and 1922. Big Help. This particular model appears suited to mid-1901 to 1907. Replace the transfer numerals with an etched plate and you can take the model back to 1894.

 

K&ESR No.5 Rolvenden

 

Hornby here bags the second KE&SR Terrier, RAILS/Dapol having announced Bodiam.  Whereas Bodiam had retained condensing pipes, Rolvenden did not. Like the RAILS/Dapol model, this represents the earlier condition, so the two models should complement one another.

Again we have the buffer mounted front outer lamp irons which are not present judging from photographs of Rolvenden in this, and indeed in later condition.  Again the odd and nasty guard irons.

 

Bunker rails were here but not the blanked ones Hornby have shown.  Hornby seems to have tooled for one cab variant here, blanked coal rails and window bars; good for an A1X, but not correct for Rolvenden. A three-quarters view of Rolvenden in the condition depicted by Hornby, the rails are open and there are no window bars. These are not impossible features to correct.

 

No.751

 

Unlike the other two “Era 2” releases, this model goes head to head with RAILS/Dapol; the same loco in the same condition. It will be interesting to see them together, but there was only one SE&CR Terrier, so no-one is going to need to own both the RAILS/Dapol and the Hornby model, so this is a particularly aggressive choice for Hornby.

 

There are the same minor reservations as with the others.  Again, the photograph of 751 in this condition shows the absence of the buffer mounted front lamp irons.  The more I look at those guard irons the more they disturb me; they are totally wrong shape!

 

That aside, again we appear to have the appropriate physical condition for the depicted. I was particularly pleased to see that the vacuum exhaust pipe leading from the cab front along the boiler.

 

All in all, for RTR models it looks as if there will be a good degree of fidelity to the chosen prototypes and a willingness to tool for the key variants.

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In regards to the recent Hornby announcement. We can confirm that the NRM/Dapol/RAILS terrier project will definitely still go ahead. The project is well advanced and more updates will follow in due course.

 
Rails always welcomes competition, we feel the product will stand the test against others in relation to quality, accuracy and fidelity.

 

 

Thanks for a prompt statement Oliver. Other suppliers in similar positions have kept quiet for some time. I'm very much looking forward to my Rails 32655, and any forthcoming updates. 

 

Interesting that Hornby have announced more than their usual standard 3 variants of a new model - taking lead from other manufacturers perhaps? I had written off Hornby doing the terrier again as there are so many variations of tooling required to make the most of the multitude of liveries.

Edited by Torn-on-the-platform
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I'm kinda glad I held off preordering a Rails one, I shall likely buy the Hornby version of 2662 for purely selfish financial reasons. 

 

Rails are usually my website of choice though, I hope they won't be offended if I order a Hornby one from them? They get my money either way :') 

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I was on the verge of ordering a couple of the Rails / Dapol Terriers, but will wait to see what Hornby's are like before deciding.

Choice is all well and good, but the potential profit loss to both parties due to duplication is worrying. 

I hope Rails and Hornby don't fall out over the Terrier the way Hattons and Bachmann seem to have over the 66

I don't think Terriers are anywhere near as important to overall Hornby sales and profits as 66's are to Bachmann. What can Rails do, stop selling Hornby? Plus Hattons are also competing against Woodland Scenics, which Bachmann distribute.

 

Both Hattons and Rails need to bear in mind other retailers are commissioning things from Hornby and/or Bachmann or others without also competing directly with them. It is clear both manufacturers have decided it is time to lay down some markers. Challenging existing manufacturers head on with their existing product ranges is a risky strategy. Note that the likes of Rapido and Revolution have avoided that. And if you get drawn into a battle on a new front (manufacturing) you can take your eye off your core business (retailing). There is no shortage of retailers to step in if Hatton or Rails lose drop the retail ball.

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I've pre-ordered this too from Rails. I also hope this doesn't hurt Rails/Dapol's profits too much, but to be honest until today I wasn't really in the market for the Stepney model since I have Hornby's previous version already. But this new tooling does look great, especially for the price on offer. Will look great next to my Bluebell engine!

Edited by drt7uk
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Doubtful.  The quote above in the announcement indicates no tooling had been done when the Rails/Dapol version was announced and it is the tooling that is the expensive bit.

 

It might be a reaction to what Dapol did with the large prairie based on speculation on here at the time of the Dapol large prairie announcement.

 

Maybe, but the first ones are due to be released in February, which AFAIK is sooner than the rails one. Plus SK had already had plans to retool so as he says much of the work was already done, maybe it was just about finding a production slot?

 

 

Luckily we had already completed much of the work so it was purely down to having steel cut and models produced.

 

I'm hoping that we don't see a repeat of the Adams radial - although I don't think many people will complain about over saturation of new terriers..

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