Hornby - New Tooling - Terrier

[truffy]

On ‎23‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 00:11, MatthewCarty said:

R3783 - May https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/locomotives-by-class/a1x-terrier/sr-terrier-0-6-0t-2662-era-3.html

Oooh, just in time for my birthday. Happy birthday to me!

[chuffinghell]

Where is the GWR Portishead? 

[Miss Prism]

The LBSCR boss and spoke flare was very distinctive. Hornby seems only to do generic driving wheels.

 

[Pre Grouping fan]

3 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

Where is the GWR Portishead? 

Not in this batch

[wainwright1]

The wheels on the picture of Stepney are definite just coloured plastic, very similar to the incorrect 'pinky' colour Hornby have painted all their more recent old  L.B. & S.C.R. liveried Terriers, albeit with the gaps painted in on the balances. The picture in the Hornby catalogue shows the model with the lining panels on the tanks and the wheels look the same colour as the body, so hopefully all will be well when the model arrives. The bottom section of the boiler which appears to be unpainted plastic, seems to show a similar problem to the Oxford Adams Radial etc, where this is produced as part of the running plate casting, but does not quite align properly with the rest of the boiler. Lets hope that on the production models this can be pushed up into the correct position and painted to match.

Comment has been made about the guard irons not being the right shape. I wonder if they have been shaped to fit behind the sand boxes on the locos which had them moved below the footplate ? Perhaps Hornby have only tooled one option for this or maybe there might be correctly shaped ones for each type ?

 

I am looking forward to these arriving with three on order at a very reasonable price. (Just hope that they get the right shade of green on the S.E. & C.R. one this time).

Also hoping for the Isle of Wight pre-grouping ones next year. Anybody doing Oldbury 4 wheeled coach kits yet ?

 

RB

[RichardLong]

3 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

 

Also hoping for the Isle of Wight pre-grouping ones next year. Anybody doing Oldbury 4 wheeled coach kits yet ?

 

RB

 

I'm not sure the Oldburys ever ran with Terriers.  The Oldburys were all IWR (as far as I know), whereas the Terriers were all IWCR and FYNR.

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

The wheels on the picture of Stepney are definite just coloured plastic, very similar to the incorrect 'pinky' colour Hornby have painted all their more recent old  L.B. & S.C.R. liveried Terriers, albeit with the gaps painted in on the balances. The picture in the Hornby catalogue shows the model with the lining panels on the tanks and the wheels look the same colour as the body, so hopefully all will be well when the model arrives. The bottom section of the boiler which appears to be unpainted plastic, seems to show a similar problem to the Oxford Adams Radial etc, where this is produced as part of the running plate casting, but does not quite align properly with the rest of the boiler. Lets hope that on the production models this can be pushed up into the correct position and painted to match.

Comment has been made about the guard irons not being the right shape. I wonder if they have been shaped to fit behind the sand boxes on the locos which had them moved below the footplate ? Perhaps Hornby have only tooled one option for this or maybe there might be correctly shaped ones for each type ?

 

I am looking forward to these arriving with three on order at a very reasonable price. (Just hope that they get the right shade of green on the S.E. & C.R. one this time).

Also hoping for the Isle of Wight pre-grouping ones next year. Anybody doing Oldbury 4 wheeled coach kits yet ?

 

RB

 

You can only ever need one SE&CR 751 in this livery.  I am going to see what Rails/Dapol's version looks like; I think the NRM link/"museum quality" aspiration and the higher spec. announced suggests that the Rails/Dapol version will be worth the wait.

 

It has been said by both me and others that you cannot base a judgment on a painted sample; we need to see the real thing in due course. Certainly the colour and bad 'panel fit' of the lower boiler is discouraging, as are a number of features either crude or plasticky, but we shall have to see. For this reason, it is not perhaps worth concentrating on the decorative matters, but the tooling can presumably be assessed at this point.  

[IWCR]

32 minutes ago, RichardLong said:

 

I'm not sure the Oldburys ever ran with Terriers.  The Oldburys were all IWR (as far as I know), whereas the Terriers were all IWCR and FYNR.

During WW1 there was a lot of additional trains run for workmen to Cowes for the shipyards.

The Isle of Wight Central had 4 terriers at the time and the Freshwater line one, Oldburys certainly were used for some of these trains hence yes it is likely that they did run together.  Apart from through workings from the Isle of Wight Railway  and Freshwater line there would have been Central run trains as well, they had taken over and were using some of the Oldburys which the IWR had withdrawn in 1914.

At the end of WW1 the Workmens Trains came to an end and Terrier haulage after this would be unlikely.

It is just possible it also occurred in early Southern days, the last Oldburys were withdrawn in 1927 although by then O2 haulage was the norm for Ryde to Ventnor,  The first Terrier allocated to Ryde shed was in 1929 however one was borrowed from Newport during 1927 for Bembridge branch use.

 

Pete

 

 

[Edwardian]

Some details compared

 

[Ian J.]

I hate to say it, but Hornby do seem to have 'rushed' their Terrier into production. Some of the things that aren't great aren't exactly difficult to get right.

[scots region]

7 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Some details compared

 

 

Oh dear, it does seem to be a bit, 'fine on the first glance, no so fine on second and third glances'. 

[Pre Grouping fan]

It hopefully they are addressing these areas. One that cant be tweaked much are the guard irons  because of the HO track gauge plus the fact the chassis has to be made narrower to allow enough side play in the axles.

[friscopete]

The Rails version will never sell in model shops ,tourist railway shops , on Ebay except used or possibly for  gain,etc .The Hornby will sell all over the world in shops.Maybe Dapol will take it over after a few years. OK The NRM will get it and some hot marketing  will mean it will sell but as I said earlier Hornby are the train set of England .A few lost or incorrect details wont stop it selling out there.I was on the North Norfolk  when they had the little Terrier (forgotten which one ,getting old ) chugging up and down ,a total delight .I was  wearing a photographers bib and a guy came up and asked if Hornby made a model and where he could get it .Nuff said .

 

formerly the artist known as alfsboy

Edited February 10, 2019 by friscopete

[adb968008]

16 minutes ago, friscopete said:

The Rails version will never sell in model shops ,tourist railway shops , on Ebay except used or possibly for  gain,etc .The Hornby will sell all over the world in shops.Maybe Dapol will take it over after a few years. OK The NRM will get it and some hot marketing  will mean it will sell but as I said earlier Hornby are the train set of England .A few lost or incorrect details wont stop it selling out there.I was on the North Norfolk  when they had the little Terrier (forgotten which one ,getting old ) chugging up and down ,a total delight .I was  wearing a photographers bib and a guy came up and asked if Hornby made a model and where he could get it .Nuff said .

Thinking of the phrase... If Carlsberg made....

in this instance

if Oxford made a Terrier, this is what it would be.

 

its priced right. Its detailed enough for the price.

Hornby will get years out of this.

 

 

 

The question is, will the super detailed Rails one go the same distance ?

 

Ive a lot of terriers to replace, right now only a couple of versions are relevent, unless either party pony up more versions i could end up a mixed bag. For now i’m wait and see, even if this lot sell out, Hornby will do more into the future, the  Terrier is one of those constant staple models.

 

in this case ive no need to rush.

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Some details compared

 

 

So far the best renditions of rtr Con rod pins ive seen goto..

 

1st place Heljans 47xx... they look like the real thing.

2nd place Hornbys original MN.. not quite, but they do have the Corks.

 

indeed Heljans 47xx coukd be king of rtr steam, but for the overweight tender, paint finish and cab sides.. its bottom end is an industry innovation in itself.. beaten for haulage by their own 02, which not quite as exciting it none the less outpulls anything else rtr steam in oo, even some dog old metal dublo stuff..

 

everything else just uses a standard electronics industry nut.

Edited February 9, 2019 by adb968008

[Amand]

On 09/02/2019 at 21:46, adb968008 said:

 

So far the best renditions of rtr Con rod pins ive seen goto..

 

1st place Heljans 47xx... they look like the real thing.

2nd place Hornbys original MN.. not quite, but they do have the Corks.

 

indeed Heljans 47xx coukd be king of rtr steam, but for the overweight tender, paint finish and cab sides.. its bottom end is an industry innovation in itself.. beaten for haulage by their own 02, which not quite as exciting it none the less outpulls anything else rtr steam in oo, even some dog old metal dublo stuff..

 

everything else just uses a standard electronics industry nut.

 

Hello, looking at the buffers, where the shank meets the buffer beam bar there's a big difference between model and real loco. The model shown as pre-production has the buffers just plonked in place. Looking at other photos on the web the shanks are recessed into the running plate (sorry if that's not the correct description). I've zoomed into a photo from Wikipedia, owned by Peter Skuce

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Railways_Class_A1X_Terrier_32678_Tenterden_Town.jpg where he has given permission for the photo to be shared / modified as long as he's credited.

 

I know there will have been modifications to the real locos over the years, but the model looks odd, certainly differs from the photos on Andy's posts on page 1.

 

Amand.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Amand said:

 

Hello, looking at the buffers, where the shank meets the buffer beam bar there's a big difference between model and real loco. The model shown as pre-production has the buffers just plonked in place. Looking at other photos on the web the shanks are recessed into the running plate (sorry if that's not the correct description). I've zoomed into a photo from Wikipedia, owned by Peter Skuce

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Railways_Class_A1X_Terrier_32678_Tenterden_Town.jpg where he has given permission for the photo to be shared / modified as long as he's credited.

 

I know there will have been modifications to the real locos over the years, but the model looks odd, certainly differs from the photos on Andy's posts on page 1.

 

Amand.

 

Here is another view of 655, Stepney, that illustrates your point.  Also pictured are 663 and 662, representing the same period/condition as the Hornby Stepney. 

 

Again, it is interesting to compare some other features of the model with these pictures, e.g. collar on buffer guide, splasher/sandbox, steam exhaust dome, guard irons, cylinder lubricators to the wingplate and, indeed, wingplate thickness, wheel/crank pin/rod detail etc.

 

  

[JSpencer]

Even the original OO Dapol version (Hornby's previous version) had that correct. The rush to be first could well end up second.

 

2 hours ago, Amand said:

 

Hello, looking at the buffers, where the shank meets the buffer beam bar there's a big difference between model and real loco. The model shown as pre-production has the buffers just plonked in place. Looking at other photos on the web the shanks are recessed into the running plate (sorry if that's not the correct description). I've zoomed into a photo from Wikipedia, owned by Peter Skuce

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Railways_Class_A1X_Terrier_32678_Tenterden_Town.jpg where he has given permission for the photo to be shared / modified as long as he's credited.

 

I know there will have been modifications to the real locos over the years, but the model looks odd, certainly differs from the photos on Andy's posts on page 1.

 

Amand.

 

[brushman47544]

On ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 19:43, Ian J. said:

I hate to say it, but Hornby do seem to have 'rushed' their Terrier into production. Some of the things that aren't great aren't exactly difficult to get right.

 

2 hours ago, Amand said:

I know there will have been modifications to the real locos over the years, but the model looks odd, certainly differs from the photos on Andy's posts on page 1.

 

I would be very surprised if Hatton's photos are of the latest version of the model. Hornby used the images Andy posted here in the Engine Shed blog last month and the models are clearly much more refined in terms of tooling and painting. In the Hatton's photos the buffers do indeed look stuck on separately, which would I suggest be consistent with early 3D shots which were then painted as livery samples.

[Edwardian]

53 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

 

 

I would be very surprised if Hatton's photos are of the latest version of the model. Hornby used the images Andy posted here in the Engine Shed blog last month and the models are clearly much more refined in terms of tooling and painting. In the Hatton's photos the buffers do indeed look stuck on separately, which would I suggest be consistent with early 3D shots which were then painted as livery samples.

 

The pictures are the latest version of the model, taken by Hattons quite recently according to the link I posted. I understand that they are of the decorated samples. 

 

EDIT: I've saved you the trouble of going back to my link, I quote the Hattons site introducing the decorated sample pictures:

 

Painted Sample Photos - 04/02/2019

We recently got to take a close look at some of the painted samples for Hornby's upcoming Terrier.

These samples showcase the level of separately fitted detailing parts that will be present on the models as well as some exquisite livery application. Let us know what you think of the samples in the comments below.

 

Unless I have misunderstood, the original pictures posted by Admin were likely to be earlier in date and to be computer images, not pictures of physical models, whereas the ones pictured by Hattons last week are of the painted samples and thus represent recent progress towards the production model. The images first released, which suggested a more polished product, were made available earlier, Hattons, for example, posted them on 7 January. 

  

Hornby has clearly let Hattons  have access to take and publish photographs, so these samples are clearly intended to be seen and to encourage pre-orders.  Subject to the caveat that they are only painted samples, it seems reasonable to be considering them. It's the most any of us has to go on so far.   

 

Perhaps someone more familiar with the manufacturing process would hazard an educated guess as to whether it is likely that the tooling had been finalised by the time the painted samples were shown.   

 

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

Even the original OO Dapol version (Hornby's previous version) had that correct. The rush to be first could well end up second.

 

 

 

Indeed, it did.  The original Dapol/Hornby OO model also had the pronounced collar at the front of the buffer guide that is clear on pictures of the prototype.  

Edited February 11, 2019 by Edwardian

[Steamport Southport]

On ‎07‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 15:56, Miss Prism said:

The LBSCR boss and spoke flare was very distinctive. Hornby seems only to do generic driving wheels.

 

 

They didn't do generic wheels on the B12, D16 and many others such as the Duchess with it's Stanier bevelled wheels.

 

 

 

Jason

[Miss Prism]

Fair enough. No reason to not have better wheels, then.

 

[IWCR]

Some of the detail "errors" shown above may not be errors at all. There are all sorts of variations between individual locos and these differ over the years.  For example both collared and un-collared buffer guides are correct, you would need dated photos of specific locos to sort.  The difficulty Horny has is matching the correct bits for a given loco and date, inevitably this will end with some compromises to achieve a model which can represent several different locos without an excessive amount of custom pieces.

 

Pete

 

[Edwardian]

20 minutes ago, IWCR said:

Some of the detail "errors" shown above may not be errors at all. There are all sorts of variations between individual locos and these differ over the years.  For example both collared and un-collared buffer guides are correct, you would need dated photos of specific locos to sort.  The difficulty Horny has is matching the correct bits for a given loco and date, inevitably this will end with some compromises to achieve a model which can represent several different locos without an excessive amount of custom pieces.

 

Pete

 

 

Wrong there, I'm afraid. All the detail comparisons in relation to Stepney were made using a photograph of the real 655 Stepney in the same period/condition as represented by the Hornby model.  Later I posted front-end details of two other class members in similar period/condition, which merely showed consistency as regards the features noted. No doubt a similar exercise could be undertaken in relation to the other Hornby versions. 

 

From appearances so far, the Hornby tooling suite only goes so far. I do not think anyone is being particularly condemnatory about that, as you say, there will have to be some compromises in a class with so much variation over the years. Nor do I think it much worth debating whether an inaccurately rendered detail proceeds from deliberate, perhaps reasonable, tooling cost compromise or from a mistake. 

 

That said, we will soon have the luxury of comparing the approach Hornby has chosen with that of another manufacturer.

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Fair enough. No reason to not have better wheels, then.

 

 

Isn't it just a mock-up of a model that isn't even in production yet?

 

Seems more cobbled together from existing parts as a demonstration rather than a final model. 

 

 

 

Jason