Hornby - New Tooling - Terrier

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Isn't it just a mock-up of a model that isn't even in production yet?

 

Seems more cobbled together from existing parts as a demonstration rather than a final model. 

 

 

 

Jason

 

True, which is why (i) I'm not overly concerned at the missing bits of livery at the moment and (ii) I discount a number of items that might represent such a "cobble", such as the awful wheel nuts and the use of a cab front sheet from a vac-fitted subject etc.

 

That said, it would surprise me if things already tooled for are not as we see them, whether this is the buffer commented by someone earlier, the stumpy-looking steam exhaust domes or, my own personal dislike, those criminally bad guard irons.      

 

Judging how much of what we see now is what we'll get is difficult, but if they are delivering these in May (no longer February as originally claimed, I notice), can one assume that they have cut tooling by now? 

[JSpencer]

Normally painted samples would go directly to actually tooled produced EPs. The physical form might not be open to further improvements.

 

 

[woodenhead]

If you go back to the original pictures which did show the buffer more sunk into the frame than the livery models.

 

It seems odd that an earlier EP would have the buffers embedded but the later version have them stuck on like they had been given some Parkside buffers from Peco.

 

Were those original shots a computer generated image or an actual model?

[Edwardian]

23 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

If you go back to the original pictures which did show the buffer more sunk into the frame than the livery models.

 

It seems odd that an earlier EP would have the buffers embedded but the later version have them stuck on like they had been given some Parkside buffers from Peco.

 

Were those original shots a computer generated image or an actual model?

 

I would agree if those first shots were of a physical model. At first I assumed that they must be because Mr Kohler had said the product would be with us next month, i.e. February.

 

Subsequently I came to doubt that they were pictures of a model.  Rather, I think they are clever graphics. 

 

This view seems consistent with the later pictures taken at the Toy show and by Hattons showing physical samples that are in several points inconsistent with and apparently less advanced than the initial images.

 

lt seems that Hornby may have been less far forward with the Terrier than the announcement pictures caused many of us to assume.  

 

 

[NHY 581]

I was discussing this very matter this afternoon in my local emporium. Terriers are expected very soon, certainly before Easter. 

 

 

Rob

[Edwardian]

23 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

I was discussing this very matter this afternoon in my local emporium. Terriers are expected very soon, certainly before Easter. 

 

 

Rob

 

That is interesting, though perhaps it tends to support the view that the painted samples represent the final tooling. 

 

I was tempted to pre-order Stepney based on the initial images, despite some reservations, but I find the latest images less convincing.  I shall bide my time.  

[GreenGiraffe22]

Decided to go ahead and pre order the SR versions from Hornby and Rails, will be interesting to compare

[Wickham Green]

13 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Decided to go ahead and pre order the SR versions from Hornby and Rails, will be interesting to compare

I'll be making my decision when there's a choice of black with 'sunshine' lettering from each source ............................... the wallet's probably safe for a while !

[GreenGiraffe22]

11 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

I'll be making my decision when there's a choice of black with 'sunshine' lettering from each source ............................... the wallet's probably safe for a while !

 

 

I'll have a sunshine one too from whoever releases one first although preferably not 2662 or 2644 

[ahardy]

Hornby have uploaded a new photo onto their social media stream today with more to come by the looks of it...

[brushman47544]

Lots of images on the Engine Shed blog, which makes it clear they are not how the final version will look. However, there are also images of the separate parts (created from early samples) and none of the frame variants shows a recess for the buffers to sit in.

[JSpencer]

Very interesting engine shed.

 

The photo implies that the boiler/side tanks parts have 5 choices, 2 A1, 3 A1X. I hope the 12 bolt version of the tanks appears somewhere amongst them 

 

Three Cab variants but this seems to be only minor details like lamp iron positions. A good few buffer choices, but all of them are stuck on the buffer beam which is not as they were and really detracks from the models.

 

The two chimney types are covered.

Only one choice of gaurd irons though.

 

It is possible they can get many of the features correct for each loco concerned only that they used the wrong features on the decorated samples.

I'll wait and see before I purchase.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

 

 A good few buffer choices, but all of them are stuck on the buffer beam which is not as they were and really detracks from the models.

 

 

Only one choice of gaurd irons though.

 

Ok, Terriers aren’t my area of expertise but what’s wrong with the buffers and them being on the buffer beam? Looking at the  big A4 colour photos in Kevin Derricks ‘Southern Steam Remembered’ and can’t see an issue. 

 

I think the guard irons irons are like they are so that they align with the rails in oo gauge. Not much can be done about that unless you go EM. 

[RichardLong]

Good to see what appears to be an Isle of Wight extended bunker amongst the range of parts shown on the Engine Shed blog

[sem34090]

My impressions are that, although the above issues remain (I am willing to overlook the guard irons and can probably try and sort out both those and the buffers if they bother me enough) it looks to be a vast improvement over the old model, at a similar price.

 

That irks me... just how much profit was Hornby making on the old model in order to give it an RRP of roughly the same as the new one?!

 

I note the lack of lining on the fronts of the cab and tanks on the LBSCR, SECR and SR samples (which I think are the same ones as we saw from Hattons.). Now this doesn't bother me as much as it did because I note that the KESR sample, presumably a later one (certainly Hattons didn't show pictures of it), does show lining in those places.

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Ok, Terriers aren’t my area of expertise but what’s wrong with the buffers and them being on the buffer beam? Looking at the  big A4 colour photos in Kevin Derricks ‘Southern Steam Remembered’ and can’t see an issue. 

 

I think the guard irons irons are like they are so that they align with the rails in oo gauge. Not much can be done about that unless you go EM. 

 

See page 6 of this thread. The buffer shanks sink back into the running plate (the old model actually had that corrct), the new model has them no further in than the buffer beams.

 

 

[Pre Grouping fan]

30 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

My impressions are that, although the above issues remain (I am willing to overlook the guard irons and can probably try and sort out both those and the buffers if they bother me enough) it looks to be a vast improvement over the old model, at a similar price.

 

That irks me... just how much profit was Hornby making on the old model in order to give it an RRP of roughly the same as the new one?!

 

I note the lack of lining on the fronts of the cab and tanks on the LBSCR, SECR and SR samples (which I think are the same ones as we saw from Hattons.). Now this doesn't bother me as much as it did because I note that the KESR sample, presumably a later one (certainly Hattons didn't show pictures of it), does show lining in those places.

I think this article is just a closer look at the project to date with the current samples being used.

 

Perhaps higher price for the old tooling model was helping to pay for this!?

 

The article states these,l are far from the finished product the customer wil receive so hopefully the issues raised in this thread will be addressed on the next lot of samples they receive.

[Pre Grouping fan]

3 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

Three Cab variants but this seems to be only minor details like lamp iron positions. A good few buffer choices, but all of them are stuck on the buffer beam which is not as they were and really detracks from the models.

 

The two chimney types are covered.

Only one choice of gaurd irons though.

 

It is possible they can get many of the features correct for each loco concerned only that they used the wrong features on the decorated samples.

I'll wait and see before I purchase.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The article states that the exploded parts layout was done with first shot parts and also that the livery samples were produced with the same first shot components hence why they might be wrong. 

 

The cab variation shows 2 with smaller bunker and the larger IoW variation which is good to see

 

"The Hornby 'Terrier' parts and variations, created from early samples."

 

"From the early ‘First Shot’ from the tooling, we can also offer you the first look at the Decoration Samples and Approval Samples here in The Engine Shed."

Edited February 22, 2019 by Pre Grouping fan

[Ian J.]

They certainly look better than the old Dapol tooling (that wasn't a hard bar to reach). However, the outstanding issue of the buffers being on rather than recessed into the end of the footplate remains, as do the nuts for the coupling rods on the wheels.

 

I'm still reserving judgment and waiting to see what Rails/Dapol can do with theirs.

[JSpencer]

10 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

The article states that the exploded parts layout was done with first shot parts and also that the livery samples were produced with the same first shot components hence why they might be wrong. 

 

The cab variation shows 2 with smaller bunker and the larger IoW variation which is good to see

 

"The Hornby 'Terrier' parts and variations, created from early samples."

 

"From the early ‘First Shot’ from the tooling, we can also offer you the first look at the Decoration Samples and Approval Samples here in The Engine Shed."

 

Thanks, i had not noticed the IOW bunker which is good news. Let's see how they turn out. Hopefully most of the physical errors with the decorated samples will disapear.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I rather feel that the excess of prettiness of this prototype is going to flow like golden syrup all over any minor deviations from prototype faithfulness. Those who truly care will probably modify as required to polish the model into their preferred form. Let's wait and see what thickness the buffer upstand on the footplating is on the model, compared to the prototype, (Not being a  terrierist it looks near enough right to me.)

 

I have yet to see the absolutely perfect OO RTR model even judged by my relatively poor skill level, though some now get close. But what the newly tooled models offer is a much superior starting canvas, to which any additional small detail or modifications can be made relatively easily to improve it further. Possibly this is no longer a popular aspect of the hobby?

 

16 hours ago, sem34090 said:

...That irks me... just how much profit was Hornby making on the old model in order to give it an RRP of roughly the same as the new one?...

 

15 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

...Perhaps higher price for the old tooling model was helping to pay for this!?...

 

Or yet another way to think of this aspect is 'enough to suggest that a newly tooled model of this subject was a low risk choice'. In its present financial situation, Hornby needs to go after all the likely sources of reliably profitable long term revenue it can identify. It's a rare business that doesn't need reliable 'cash cows'.

[Ian J.]

5 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

...But what the newly tooled models offer is a much superior starting canvas, to which any additional small detail or modifications can be made relatively easily to improve it further. Possibly this is no longer a popular aspect of the hobby?...

 

I agree regarding the starting canvas.

 

However, if the RTR model has need of modifications which will need a bit of cutting to the base model (as might be the case with recessing the buffers into the footplate on this Terrier) then some work to re-finish the model's paintwork may be required.

 

In today's world Hornby/Bachmann/Dapol/Heljan/etc can finish their models with paint, lining, lettering, logos, etc., far better than the vast majority of modellers could ever hope to achieve, even if they have all the available tools and skills to hand. Crisp, clean, straight lining, without transfer marks and joins, is hard to do. An even paint finish is only possible with the best of air brushes and good experience of how to use them.

 

So for those of us who can't get close to the manufacturer finish with our own skills and equipment, the hope is that the models will be designed and executed sufficiently well that we feel no modifications are required and the original finish can be left alone. This is why I (and others) can feel disappointed when a 'holy grail' model is released that falls short in how it has been designed and produced (there are several that I still struggle to accept - 4TC, 4VEP, LSWR 700 - due to issues with them, though I have bought a couple of 700s and try to remember to remove my spectacles when I view them so I can overlook the handrail knob angle ).

 

As far as Hornby's Terrier is concerned, there appear to be no major issues with its basic proportions, but there might be enough detail issues that, for a nearer authentic fine appearance, could need altering such that the finish of the locomotive would be affected and therefore re-painting, re-lining, etc., might be required.

 

But we haven't seen the final finished product yet so all this is conjecture. With Rails/Dapol still to release theirs, and going by the recent Dapol B4, I'm still not putting my foot in the Hornby camp at this point in time.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

... for those of us who can't get close to the manufacturer finish with our own skills and equipment, the hope is that the models will be designed and executed sufficiently well that we feel no modifications are required and the original finish can be left alone...

I am right with you on this aspect, avoiding degrading the superior finish is always a consideration. (I have been looking at the 'shape-challenged' Brush type 2 body shell for near a decade contemplating the 'how' of correction. Now I have a plan I cannot find  a Lima skinhead shell to donate the small pieces required for the job...)

 

Steamers are generally easier though, especially where black paint, and a general muck of ash, rust and coal dust dominates...

[RodneyS]

Looking at the pictures it seems that the tank tops are not recessed as they should be.

Dapol got this right on their O gauge model so hopefully the Rails model will be correct in this respect.

This is one item that would be virtually impossible to correct.  As models are usually viewed from above it is noticeable - to me at any rate.

 

All  Brighton locos with similar types of side tank have this recess. This is because the side and both ends of the tank have sheet metal cladding and this finishes at the edge of the curved top.  The nuts that show on the side of the tank hold the cladding sheet to the tank.   So the only part of the actual tank which is visible is the top.  The recess is around 3/4'' - 10 thou in 4mm scale -  but I think it does show.

Rodney

[Edwardian]

I agree, the tank has been misinterpreted, with no hint of the cladding, save the nuts, which here are 8; correct for the chosen A1s, but not for the A1Xs, which should have 4 additional nuts top and bottom. At least in this livery it is possible to add the missing nuts, though the photographs show that the lining should be resting against the nuts, so the tank-side panel is a little too small.

 

On the whole the Hornby A1X tooling is a fit for 32636, ex-Fenchurch, so its a pretty creditable match.  I think the black liveries will probably be more sympathetic than light liveries, though the boiler join still seems quite obvious to me.   The white lining on the splasher appears far too thick and the lining on the tanks a little too far inboard, I'd say, but overall it's an attractive representation of Fenchurch at that time of her life, and we might see amendments and corrections before release.

 

Unusual, probably unique, in lacking coal rails in this condition, she nevertheless had rear window grills, absent here, so I wonder if they will be fitted.  

 

Aren't those crank pin bosses awful though?

 

The best thing you can say about those guard irons is that the sand pipes help mask them.