Hornby - New Tooling - Terrier

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

 

 

That shot still seems to show the SR one with black tank fronts and cab front, unless that is just the lighting? Presumably it is the same livery sample as earlier, I would hope that is going to be corrected.... 

 

Edit: not sure it should have a gold chimney cap either...? At least this one doesn't seem to have one 

 

At Fratton, c.1937, IIRC, this is, of course, the Southern Green version that Rails announced.  EDIT: You can tell it's the Rails version, it's got firebox glow!!

 

Hornby's is another of the Fratton Terriers of the period, 2662. 

 

I think your point is that the cab and tank fronts should be in lined green and that Hornby's livery sample appears to show them black.  That is correct, though note in the picture above that the cab and tank rears are plain black. 

 

Now, I haven't seen a prototype front view of 2662 in this livery, but there is a picture of 2644, dated 1939, in which the lining is quite evident on both the cab front and the tank front, so I think you are quite right to expect this.  There being no reason to suppose that Hornby's choice, 2662, would have been treated any differently, I would say that Hornby has captured the livery correctly in this regard according to the graphics originally released (Link). 

 

True, these features are black on the livery sample, Hattons Pictures, but I would not read too much into this as these are only samples and you'll note that the lining was missed on these same two areas on the Stepney sample, so I assume that these areas just weren't included in the sample stage for whatever reason. 

 

Incidentally, the graphic image missed out the livery on the splasher, which the decorative sample included, so I don't think we have yet seen a picture of this version with the full livery that I would expect the production model to have.

 

The white lines look nicely fine on both Hornby images.  

 

Out of interest, notice how, in the prototype colour picture the five cladding nuts along top and bottom of the tank rest right against the white line so that the staining round them actually obscures the line. An interesting effect to reproduce on a weathered model, I should have thought.

 

With regard to the chimney, I would have thought that this would be the slightly different Marsh chimney and, if so, it would not have a polished copper top.

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

 

Removal of duplicate post - no idea why that happened

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Edwardian
Accidental duplication

[Edwardian]

 

Removal of duplicate post - no idea why that happened - twice!

Edited March 18, 2019 by Edwardian
Accidental duplication

[No Decorum]

4 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

 

 

That shot still seems to show the SR one with black tank fronts and cab front, unless that is just the lighting? Presumably it is the same livery sample as earlier, I would hope that is going to be corrected.... 

 

Edit: not sure it should have a gold chimney cap either...? At least this one doesn't seem to have one 

Gosh! Look how unrealistically high the coal has had to be piled to hide the plastic coal underneath. A prototype for everything.

[Nick C]

 

20 hours ago, dibber25 said:

What's illustrated is probably a livery sample - a 'proof' of the painting, printing and lining. None of the metal parts on the model have been chemically treated (buffers, rods, wheels and chimney cap). I don't recall any BR 'Terrier' having a copper chimney cap anyway. (CJL)

 

Some did, but usually too grubby to notice! DS377 did - in IEG livery. Looking through the SEMG site, 32650, 32646 and 32670 all appear to have done (the shape of the cap is slightly different to the Marsh ones)

[JSpencer]

Copper and brass will oxidise naturally into black over time, unless keep in cold wet conditions, in which case it will be a blueish green.

 

By polishing brass/copper, you remove that thin layer of oxidation which is actually quite protective. It looks pretty but you actually increasing wear and tear (though probably insignificant compared to that caused by smoke and steam blasting through it all day long). 

[jjb1970]

I remember as a cadet being told off after the weekly masters inspection if my brass cabin window frames hadn't been polished. In fairness I was told off for far worse crimes as a cadet. 

[GreenGiraffe22]

I used to love polishing all the brass work on the miniature traction engines and door handles at Brighton Toy & Model museum when I volunteered there circa 2012, I found it so therapeutic watching all the brass work turn reflective again.

[Howard Smith]

NEWS: Hornby 'Terrier' First look
A new model, symbolic with a turning point in Hornby's direction. Does it match the TV hype? Howard Smith finds out...

 

[stonetown]

Do I see prototypical coal railings for Rolvenden? Nice!

[Howard Smith]

10 minutes ago, stonetown said:

Do I see prototypical coal railings for Rolvenden? Nice!

 

Yes, both models are very well observed and a credit to Hornby.

[Edwardian]

Yes, you do!  The sample featured the blanked A1X type.  Moreover, I believe that the rear window bars shown in the initial images have been removed. This is further good news. 

 

Nice fine lining and an attractive shade to the blue.  I've no idea whether the wheels should be blue or black. Does anyone know? 

 

A minor point, but the beaded surround to the cab cut-out looks wrong in blue, and I would judge it was left as polished steel. Minor point, as I say. 

 

On 32655 we have the same good match of tooling to prototype that we saw with the earlier BR black version.

 

The decision to use the A1 tanks, and not tool an A1X version, seems to result in there being no recess to the tank front as was left by the removal of the condensing pipe. So what with that, the missing nuts and the lack of recessed top, the tanks are the weakest part of an otherwise generally strong A1X model.

 

The only picture I have seen of 32655 with the early BR crest shows that the lining on the splasher is quite different, the white line follows the red and is not confined on the outer edge. IIRC, this is one of the BR identities chosen by Rails/Dapol, which will make a very interesting comparison in due course. 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Edwardian

[wainwright1]

 

58 minutes ago, Howard Smith said:

NEWS: Hornby 'Terrier' First look
A new model, symbolic with a turning point in Hornby's direction. Does it match the TV hype? Howard Smith finds out...

 

Hi All.

Contrary to previous comments about the buffers, I have noticed that in some of the recent pictures issued by Hornby that the Southern liveried version in particular certainly appears to have buffers with extensions back behind the buffer beam.

On close inspection, some of the other models also appear to have the back part of the buffer mounting overlapping the buffer beam slightly, perhaps 25% and painted black in contrast to the red painted section at the front.

In these two pictures I cannot see anything much on Rolvenden, but on 32655 there appears to be something on top of the footplate behind the buffers.

I am hoping that my Rolvenden will arrive at my local stockist this week so that I can have a closer look.

 

Ray

[Edwardian]

20 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

 

Hi All.

Contrary to previous comments about the buffers, I have noticed that in some of the recent pictures issued by Hornby that the Southern liveried version in particular certainly appears to have buffers with extensions back behind the buffer beam.

On close inspection, some of the other models also appear to have the back part of the buffer mounting overlapping the buffer beam slightly, perhaps 25% and painted black in contrast to the red painted section at the front.

In these two pictures I cannot see anything much on Rolvenden, but on 32655 there appears to be something on top of the footplate behind the buffers.

I am hoping that my Rolvenden will arrive at my local stockist this week so that I can have a closer look.

 

Ray

 

What I think you're seeing there are the brackets behind the buffers in some cases, for the lamp irons.  What you are not seeing is the actual disc of the buffers set into the footplate as it is on the prototype.

 

 

Although I have adopted the term "inset buffer"; to be accurate, it's not strictly the buffer that is inset. Looking at the picture above, what you see, from left to right are three layers to the curved buffer:  

 

(i)  A thin sliver largely proud of the buffer beam that is the base of the buffer shank proper

 

(ii)  A curved section of the buffer beam [EDIT: in fact a flange on the beam itself ] to the profile of the buffer base and to which the buffer is attached. 

 

(iii)  A thicker semi-circular piece to the rear which is part of the buffer beam itself.

 

[EDIT: By way of further explanation, the footplate extends over and in front of  the buffer beam "as built"  and is cut away where the upward-semi circle of the buffer beam fits through. I think over time there have been many variations of this arrangement, but it is fair to say that the Hornby buffers are fundamentally incorrect in their representation of the buffer arrangements]

 

The problem with the Hornby buffer is that the whole of this sandwich of elements appears to be forward of the buffer beam. 

 

Just like the tank tops, it suggests that the way the prototype locomotive was put together is not something that the designer has understood, notwithstanding access to the prototype and to General Arrangement  drawings.

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Edwardian

[wainwright1]

I see that it is the degree of penetration.

 

Are you referring to the length of the handrails on the smoke box sides ?

 

I am pleased to see that they have fitted shorter handrail knobs  to the handrails on the smoke box rings. The ones on the more recent old type Terriers were ridiculous, with the handrails sticking out about a scale foot from the front.

 

I have also just noted from Howard's pictures the new scraper pick-ups on all the wheels. This should make a massive improvement in the performance of the locos.

 

Ray

Edited March 19, 2019 by wainwright1
Correcting an error

[GreenGiraffe22]

Is that a photo of the livery sample or the  final model?  Bit of a paintwork issue there if it is the final specimen 

[Edwardian]

I think Howard has been looking at production models.  I think the lack of insetting to the buffer is more of an issue than a smigeon of stray paint; I could certainly live with that and quickly amend with a dot of black.

 

Actually, I'd say the issue on this close-up is the length of the curved handrail on the smoke-box face, which is considerably longer than it should be. 

 

Nice smoke box dart, though, and the 2 rivets holding the splasher down is a nice touch. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Edwardian

[GreenGiraffe22]

Feeling more and more like these Terriers have been a little bit too rushed... 

[Ian J.]

2 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Feeling more and more like these Terriers have been a little bit too rushed... 

 

Agreed, but they are mainly detail issues. There are no significant major dimensional problems as far as I can make out.

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, Ian J. said:

 

Agreed, but they are mainly detail issues. There are no significant major dimensional problems as far as I can make out.

I would hardly call having the buffers in the wrong place insignificant.

Bernard

[GreenGiraffe22]

It's true little painting blips I highlighted are easily fixed but it just seems kinda sloppy... 

 

 

[meatloaf]

Has anyone attempted to fit a decoder to thiers yet?

 

I'll be ordering mine next weel along with a guagemaster dcc23 small decoder. Hopefully its easy to get the body off

[Rising Standards]

7 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The only picture I have seen of 32655 with the early BR crest shows that the lining on the splasher is quite different, the white line follows the red and is not confined on the outer edge. IIRC, this is one of the BR identities chosen by Rails/Dapol, which will make a very interesting comparison in due course. 

 

The second photo on this page shows the style of lining carried by the Hornby model. I won't personally be particularly troubled by exactly when it carried this style, but it's nice to know it did at some stage while in early crest form.

 

On seeing the photo you found and this one, the length of the smokebox handrail is a bit disappointing, but it is as per the render shown at the time of announcement. I'll see how much it bothers me when I actually get the model.

[Les1952]

49 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

Has anyone attempted to fit a decoder to thiers yet?

 

I'll be ordering mine next weel along with a guagemaster dcc23 small decoder. Hopefully its easy to get the body off

 

Yes I have put a decoder in mine- and it ain't easy, though removing the body is one of the easier steps, certainly a lot less painful than Hattons Barclay for instance..

 

I picked up a black Terrier at Nottingham show - price on the box £81.  As I don't have the facility to run in a loco analogue I checked its function on the half-yard of track I can make analogue then looked at the instructions for chipping.

 

Firstly - the body is held on by two screws that are of slightly different sizes- the one at the smokebox end is VERY short and a little swine to reseat on reassembly.  Take care not to try to put them in the wrong apertures - from personal experience it is a nightmare to get them out again.....

 

Next- the sand pipes are vulnerable when removing the body - but you are warned about this in the instructions - makes it a good idea to read them first.  

 

The interface is in the smokebox with not a lot of room beyond it.  The blanking plug is on the short side.   The Hornby recommended decoder is one with a 6 pin plug and a set of wires to the decoder - ie a six-pin version of the 4-pin one in the Sentinel and Peckett.  I had a lot of trouble with both of these getting the wires tucked away tidily in order to get the body back on.  In any case Hornby's decoder isn't available yet.  

 

I decided to use a Gaugemaster decoder as my preferred Zimo one was far too long.  Indeed the Gaugemaster is also too long but CAN be made to fit as follows (invalidating the warranty no doubt).

 

The decoder needs about 2 millimetres taking off the length of its pins.  Once this is done the chip is short enough but is prevented from sitting fully into the socket by a protrubing plastic lip below the row of six holes.  This needs to be cut away for the chip to sit in place (bye-bye warranty).  Once this is done it exposes two blobs of solder - probably the reason the lip is there in the first place.  A small piece of Kapton or insulting tape is needed to cover this.  The decoder now protrubes beyond the front of the chassis by just less than a millimetre, but there is enough clearance to get the body back on.

 

Proof of the pud is that it works and has done about 40 laps of the club layout to run it in.  It is a nice silent performer.  As to rivets and tank lips- I can live with any small discrepancies here as I'm not sufficiently familiar with the prototype- the model has the overall look of a Terrier in a way the old one didn't, and it feels like a terrier, which is enough.  I may get an LSWR liveried one from Dapol, but maybe not.  I don't actually need the one I have.

 

I am concerned about the long lamp irons, which seem to be easily distorted.  Perhaps they could have been metal rather than softish plastic.  I suspect these will end up going the way of the Peckett whistles (ie coming apart and being replaced by brass) but only time will tell.

 

I hope this lot is useful to someone.....

 

Les

 

 

[meatloaf]

16 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

Yes I have put a decoder in mine- and it ain't easy, though removing the body is one of the easier steps, certainly a lot less painful than Hattons Barclay for instance..

 

I picked up a black Terrier at Nottingham show - price on the box £81.  As I don't have the facility to run in a loco analogue I checked its function on the half-yard of track I can make analogue then looked at the instructions for chipping.

 

Firstly - the body is held on by two screws that are of slightly different sizes- the one at the smokebox end is VERY short and a little swine to reseat on reassembly.  Take care not to try to put them in the wrong apertures - from personal experience it is a nightmare to get them out again.....

 

Next- the sand pipes are vulnerable when removing the body - but you are warned about this in the instructions - makes it a good idea to read them first.  

 

The interface is in the smokebox with not a lot of room beyond it.  The blanking plug is on the short side.   The Hornby recommended decoder is one with a 6 pin plug and a set of wires to the decoder - ie a six-pin version of the 4-pin one in the Sentinel and Peckett.  I had a lot of trouble with both of these getting the wires tucked away tidily in order to get the body back on.  In any case Hornby's decoder isn't available yet.  

 

I decided to use a Gaugemaster decoder as my preferred Zimo one was far too long.  Indeed the Gaugemaster is also too long but CAN be made to fit as follows (invalidating the warranty no doubt).

 

The decoder needs about 2 millimetres taking off the length of its pins.  Once this is done the chip is short enough but is prevented from sitting fully into the socket by a protrubing plastic lip below the row of six holes.  This needs to be cut away for the chip to sit in place (bye-bye warranty).  Once this is done it exposes two blobs of solder - probably the reason the lip is there in the first place.  A small piece of Kapton or insulting tape is needed to cover this.  The decoder now protrubes beyond the front of the chassis by just less than a millimetre, but there is enough clearance to get the body back on.

 

Proof of the pud is that it works and has done about 40 laps of the club layout to run it in.  It is a nice silent performer.  As to rivets and tank lips- I can live with any small discrepancies here as I'm not sufficiently familiar with the prototype- the model has the overall look of a Terrier in a way the old one didn't, and it feels like a terrier, which is enough.  I may get an LSWR liveried one from Dapol, but maybe not.  I don't actually need the one I have.

 

I am concerned about the long lamp irons, which seem to be easily distorted.  Perhaps they could have been metal rather than softish plastic.  I suspect these will end up going the way of the Peckett whistles (ie coming apart and being replaced by brass) but only time will tell.

 

I hope this lot is useful to someone.....

 

Les

 

 

Blimey if the guagermaster chip needs modifying then its a real tight fit. I wonder of it may be worth waiting for the factory fitted dcc version