Hornby - New Tooling - Terrier

[woodenhead]

8 minutes ago, melmerby said:

An interesting (or not?) aside from the Hornby website shows that the WCPR liveried version R3528, which is old tooling (and shows it),  is still available at only £4 less than the new tool versions:

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/locomotives-by-class/a1x-terrier/wc-plr-0-6-0t-4-stroudley-terrier-class.html

 

One might ask why?

Maybe the race to get a Terrier out has been more important to Hornby than we know - the slot for the old tooling must have been a long time ago and possibly wasn't cancellable - the new tooling has come out faster to beat Rails/Dapol and we've ended up with both being around at the same time.

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Interestingly, Rails have just posted that their Pedigree/Dapol is a livery sample stage

That's interesting, chum.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

And around these parts they come in pint glasses.Though we once used small locos too.

[G-BOAF]

Damn tempted by Fenchurch in BR late crest. But sense says I should wait until the Rails/Dapol version comes out and make a judgement.

Then again if either announce 55 Stepney as preserved, I'd jump!

[brushman47544]

On 07/03/2019 at 07:49, Edwardian said:

Too late to alter the tooling of the model, then, so unless it had already evolved past the tooling used for the decorated sample, it looks like what we've seen is what we'll get. 

 

I seem to recall somewhere it was said that Hornby prepared painted samples from early engineering prototypes, rather than waiting for the  final version of the tooling as Bachmann seems to, so there may be some changes.

 

Doing it this way seems sensible. It means that tooling and livery can be progressed at the same time, and might help if a livery doesn’t look right (thinking Bachmann 101 DMU windows here) if there’s still time to alter the tooling. The overall time to market should be shorter too.

[Big James]

Waiting for BR Fenchurch to come into stock at Invicta as I just got £80’s worth of

vouchers for my birthday. She does look very nice in BR black livery and will go very well on my BLT. 

 

Big James 

[JSpencer]

8 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Interestingly, Rails have just posted that their Pedigree/Dapol is a livery sample stage - that's a big jump from the bits and pieces I saw at Warley - so we should see their versions soon.

 

Looking back at said bits in the thread, I think they may have the recess and then it comes how the buffers sit in the frame to see if it justifies it's extra £20 price.

 

Plus firebox glow and next 18 chip and sprung centre axle (which the original Dapol/Hornby version had that Hornby eliminated on their last runs). Sound option is great influencer because fitting sound on these little engines isn't easy.

i'll have both makes in the end. If Hornby can do 32640 in BR late with iOW bunker, that will be great for me.

[BWsTrains]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

An interesting (or not?) aside from the Hornby website shows that the WCPR liveried version R3528, which is old tooling (and shows it),  is still available at only £4 less than the new tool versions:

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/locomotives-by-class/a1x-terrier/wc-plr-0-6-0t-4-stroudley-terrier-class.html

 

One might ask why?

Hi Mel,

 

I'm not sure the WC&PR is a high enough profile version to get a guernsey and earn release in the new tooling and R3528 has been around I guess for 2+ years. Just so happens it has strong sentimental value for me and I loved it at first sight, deficiencies or not depending on your POV. They say "Love is Blind".

 

Whatever, I'd not be buying any new release for its increased fidelity, one very contented Terrier owner here. PDC as it stands here on my desk.

 

Given the starting point, the new tooling must be close to running up against diminishing returns, especially with 2 mnfrs going head to head.

 

Colin   

 

[melmerby]

17 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

Hi Mel,

 

I'm not sure the WC&PR is a high enough profile version to get a guernsey and earn release in the new tooling

Colin   

 

The new releases contain LBSC, SECR, KESR, SR, BR early, BR late liveries. (and various mods)

Is the KESR any more high profile than the WCPR? Then there is still the GWR livery for the WCPR versions.

Edited March 8, 2019 by melmerby

[BWsTrains]

Keith

 

AFAIK there was only Terrier No 4 during WC&PR days, otherwise they had a motley stock of locos. Doesn't get much lower profile than that even if there's 1 more I haven't found in a quick look.

Might be a bit more interest in the post 1940 GWR version I guess.

 

Was just questioning the likely level of demand for the WC&PR version.

 

Colin 

[melmerby]

20 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

Keith

 

AFAIK there was only Terrier No 4 during WC&PR days, otherwise they had a motley stock of locos. Doesn't get much lower profile than that even if there's 1 more I haven't found in a quick look.

Might be a bit more interest in the post 1940 GWR version I guess.

 

Was just questioning the likely level of demand for the WC&PR version.

 

Colin 

Nos 2 & 4 were Terriers (acquired from the SR ex LBSC 43 "Gypsyhill", in 1925 & ex LBSC 53 "Ashtead"  in 1937)

Both were still in use in 1940 when the line closed and they were taken over by the GWR who used them until 1950/1948 respectively. (WCPR.org  website)

Edited March 8, 2019 by melmerby

[Godfrey Glyn]

Picked up my first version of the new Terrier from Alton Model Centre this afternoon and am very impressed with it. It ran beautifully smoothly straight from the box and there is a lot of detail to enthuse about. I think that this is a very impressive win by Hornby, basically two months from the public announcement to release and at a very competitive price. I will definitely be buying one of the Dapol versions, but I suspect most of us will be happy with either version. Whether that is a good thing for the two manufacturers is a different matter and I noted that I received an email from Hornby at 12.02 and one from Dapol at 12.37, both telling me about their Terrier models. The last time we had a duplication involving Hornby and Oxford with the Adams Radial, Oxford got there first; obviously this time Hornby were not prepared to be second in the race. I do not envy the manufacturers, its starting to be an endeavour that has very big risks.

 

Godfrey

[Edwardian]

9 hours ago, Derails Models said:

Lovely little models, they always take me by surprise as to how small they are...!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had the same thought today when coming across the real thing in the form of a rather dusty Boxhill tucked away in the corner of the NRM's educational wing. 

 

It is viewed from platform level, which really does make it look small and allows a view to the bottom of the bunker and across the tank tops, and you can't say that about many loco classes. 

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Godfrey Glyn said:

Picked up my first version of the new Terrier from Alton Model Centre this afternoon and am very impressed with it. It ran beautifully smoothly straight from the box and there is a lot of detail to enthuse about. I think that this is a very impressive win by Hornby, basically two months from the public announcement to release and at a very competitive price. I will definitely be buying one of the Dapol versions, but I suspect most of us will be happy with either version. Whether that is a good thing for the two manufacturers is a different matter and I noted that I received an email from Hornby at 12.02 and one from Dapol at 12.37, both telling me about their Terrier models. The last time we had a duplication involving Hornby and Oxford with the Adams Radial, Oxford got there first; obviously this time Hornby were not prepared to be second in the race. I do not envy the manufacturers, its starting to be an endeavour that has very big risks.

 

Godfrey

I suspect there is a market for both.  The Hornby one will sell because it is Hornby and because it will be available over the counter or by mail order from a good number and geographical distribution of outlets.   My only question being if there are in fact too many variants being introduced at once for a mass market model?  

 

The Rails one will similarly sell but for different reasons the principal one being its greater adherence - from what we have seen so far - to correct detail and to a narrow market being nurtured and informed by Rails where the number of variants will probably be an advantage rather than leaving examples potentially remaindered.  I doubt if many buyers would be inclined to cancel an order for the Rails version just because the Hornby one has arrived first (assuming their 'right' variant does arrive first).

[MGR Hooper!]

12 hours ago, Derails Models said:

Lovely little models, they always take me by surprise as to how small they are...!

 

 

 

 

 

Superb little model! I'm waiting for Stepney....

[45568]

Can anyone say when the 'diesel font' numbering was applied to 32636? I have an idea it was quite late in the piece which may rule out this variant for me.

 thanks in advance from Oz,

Peter C.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, 45568 said:

Can anyone say when the 'diesel font' numbering was applied to 32636? I have an idea it was quite late in the piece which may rule out this variant for me.

 thanks in advance from Oz,

Peter C.

 

My guess would be 1957, as, following a failure due to a broken damper in January of that year, she was given a general overhaul and repaint later that year (Middlemass).

 

Though an oblique view, it looks to me as if this font is in place in a 1962 view taken following accident damage.

 

 

There is another picture, taken at Seaford, in this condition, which is rather clearer on some detail.

 

 

I have mentioned the good match with the smokebox detail.  The Derails pictures also show that, unfortunately, the weaknesses of the Hornby model previously identified have, indeed, been made flesh.

 

Generic errors affecting the Hornby A1X include the failure to inset the buffers into the buffer beam, the failure to model the tank-top recess produced by the cladding, and the fact that the tank side is missing 4 of the prominent nuts that attached the cladding, nuts are there, but unfortunately not enough of them. 

 

In addition, I notice a couple of detail errors specific to this locomotive. Now here we must bear in mind the almost impossible task of catering for every variation in this class, so these are observations, not criticisms in the negative sense.  And, again, anecdotal evidence suggests most customers are not that discriminating.  But, for the record:

 

• Despite the unique lack of coal rails, 32636, ex-Fenchurch, was fitted with rear window grills, omitted from the Hornby model
• The tank front lubricators were not, in fact, mounted on the tank front, but at right angles below the boiler.  Possibly she is unique in this too, and I have certainly see pictures of her with this arrangement in preserved faux-umber condition.  

 

In livery terms, the white outer lining on the tank sides should rest right against the cladding nuts - clear from the photographs - whereas Hornby has a discernable gap between the nuts and the lining. Is the lining panel too small, I wonder?

 

EDIT: A couple of quality control issues with the Derails example:

 

• The left rear cab handrail appears adrift. No "biggie", I should have thought, as it looks as if it might be coaxed back into place.
• Of more concern is that it appears that the left-hand sand box lid is missing from the front footplate.   

 

Anyway, pleasing overall and a good effort nonetheless.

 

 m

Edited March 9, 2019 by Edwardian

[Bulleidboy100]

9 hours ago, 45568 said:

Can anyone say when the 'diesel font' numbering was applied to 32636? I have an idea it was quite late in the piece which may rule out this variant for me.

 thanks in advance from Oz,

Peter C.

 

According to Hornby - April 1962 at Eastleigh.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Look quite nice, sadly not ordered any due to the ones being released don't really appeal to me yet. I see they have various tooling types so hopefully one day but not today sadly. Stepney in preserved condition rather than A1 would of been more appealing to younger people.

As I say I will hold fire ordering any at this stage.

[90rob]

Arrived this morning, and pleased to say it is a smooth runner straight from the box. The overall proportions are good - much less bulky than the old model. A few cruel closeups:

[Pre Grouping fan]

Interesting it looks smaller than the old model. Looks an excellent model with separately applied details. And by the looks of it they didn't fix the tank cladding/lip on the top.

[Edwardian]

55 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Interesting it looks smaller than the old model. Looks an excellent model with separately applied details. And by the looks of it they didn't fix the tank cladding/lip on the top.

 

Looking at it, that's a real shame, because otherwise I think 3-4 minor adjustments that could easily be made by most of us would result in a reasonably accurate 32636. But how would you deal with the lack of a tank-top recess, though, I don't know?  It seems such an unnecessary flaw in an otherwise pretty solid effort. I so wish Hornby hadn't dropped the ball on this.  

 

Setting it next to the old tool is very interesting to see though!  

 

Great pictures, 90rob.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Edwardian

[JSpencer]

I just love the photo comparing the old and the new. Makes the old look like an overscale giant when it is itself quite a small model.

 

 

 

[90rob]

47 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

I just love the photo comparing the old and the new. Makes the old look like an overscale giant when it is itself quite a small model.

 

 

 

 

There is of course a sort of ruggedness about the old model - the new one is far more delicate. The most noticeable immediate difference is the height of the side tanks and buffers. The old model is geared to run much more slowly than the new one (edit - and has a degree of compensation on the middle axle, which the new one does not have), and for that reason I am sure it still has a place on many layouts.

Edited March 11, 2019 by 90rob

[JSpencer]

13 minutes ago, 90rob said:

 

There is of course a sort of ruggedness about the old model - the new one is far more delicate. The most noticeable immediate difference is the height of the side tanks and buffers. The old model is geared to run much more slowly than the new one, and for that reason I am sure it still has a place on many layouts.

 

The old are indeed rugged even compared to the Hattons P or Dapol B4, however both of the latter newer models will run slower and quiter than the old terrier (and I got my old ones to run pretty slow and quiet). The old had a big 3 pole open frame motor, even in Dapol days, which was exactly the same motor that replaced the X.03/X.04s in the Jinty based chassis locos that Hornby did from the mid 80s onwards. Only the old terrier had a 50/1 gear ratio and sprung centre axle (removed on the last Hornby batches of these models).

Now I am surprised to see you say the new cannot run as slow as the old - though maybe it is early days and the new is not run in yet. It is a safe bet that the Rails version will use the same design of drive as the Dapol B4 was is almost unbeatable for slowness.