34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I thought Farish already had DP1 tooled and previously issued in their range? What's going on? Have they just postponed a production run rather than a new tool? The DP1 has been available in N in the past. So it is a planned production run that has been deferred. (Quite possibly it is a slightly variant livery compared to what has gone before.) It is an investment in materials and component purchases, and of production slots, to get a model produced from existing tooling. I would think this deferment is quite likely the outcome of a comparative assessment: an equivalent investment in a different product, is forecast to yield a more profitable outcome. With production slots having been constrained due to the factory move, I can imagine there is pressure to get the maximum profit out of the production slots that are available in order to improve the financial position of the business. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 The full context of the quote is 'the cost of overcoming the challenges is prohibitive' in 'current economic conditions,' which is hardly a cynical claim. Instead, it seems a frank and well substantiated one. I wasn't referring to the claim as to their ability to produce it at a cost they could afford, but to "claiming" the J72 with no idea as to how (or whether) to produce the model. That said, Trix have an N scale "kleinlok"—smaller than Arnold's model—which has a built-in decoder. So it can be done, but obviously not by Kader. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 Dapol's Terrier is essentially just a motor on a chassis with limited haulage capability, not DCC'able unless you know what you are doing and dating from a time when this was still just about acceptable. These days Bachmann would be absolutely lambasted for releasing a model which was not at least DCC ready and I suspect they have faced issues in squeezing in the coreless motor, space for the DCC circuitry/chip and still have enough space for weight to enable it haul more anything more than 2 wagons. Tom. I think you will find that the Dapol "Terrier" is not actually that limited in haulage capacity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I wasn't referring to the claim as to their ability to produce it at a cost they could afford, but to "claiming" the J72 with no idea as to how (or whether) to produce the model. That said, Trix have an N scale "kleinlok"—smaller than Arnold's model—which has a built-in decoder. So it can be done, but obviously not by Kader. They didn't say it couldn't be done, it's a cost/profitability issue for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium it's-er Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2019 Any bets on an Accurascale Prestwin by the end of the year? The Nim. Yes, that was my thought too. Accurascale have attained - in remarkably short time - a reputation for producing first class products, and seem to be able to bring them to market in months. Bachmann's relinquishing the Prestwin certainly opens the way for someone else to take it. And Accurascale seem to have a fondness for cement wagons .......! John Storey 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 You still might given the price the V2 is probably going to come in at... It will still be cheaper than therapy.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 With all the LNER 0-6-0s out there waiting to be modelled, a J39 can be forgiven. Perhaps but I’m less forgiving when it has been announced, then cancelled or deferred. Not, of course, that it makes the slightest difference whether I forgive it or not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 It's almost as though the effort of producing the Brighton Atlantic and the Freightliners has taken so much out of the folk at Barwell that they need to go and lie down for a while! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) I was kind of expecting it with the J39 as there'd been no progress in the magazine and it still mentioned (chassis upgrade) when so many other models last year which were just due a chassis upgrade were now getting the full works. I'm sure it'll be back in the range some day. If a chassis upgrade for the J39 is not seen as economical by Bachmann, then I suspect the same will be true for the Manor and Mogul. It's simply not enough of an improvement to secure the necessary sales. They need a body tooling upgrade as well. Didn't Bachmann admit as much with the LMS/BR 2-6-2T (412xx) upgrade that sales were disappointing. So I suspect these models will all go into the category of all new tooling and be considered for inclusion in the range at a future date on that basis. With Dapol's new Mogul already in development, that makes a new version from Bachmann very unlikely. Edited January 9, 2019 by brushman47544 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2019 You still might given the price the V2 is probably going to come in at... What are the alternatives though? The present Bachmann offering is well outdated, and there isn't, to my knowledge, an available kit. If there were, what would the cost of kit, wheels and motor be, before even starting to build it? Or, getting someone good enough to build it for you? The alternative is a scratch build. I know how much that costs if built and painted by really good professionals, as I've got one. If Bachmann's eventually comes in at even as much as £250 it will be cheap when compared with those alternatives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 It's almost as though the effort of producing the Brighton Atlantic and the Freightliners has taken so much out of the folk at Barwell that they need to go and lie down for a while! Judging by the latest samples of the Class 90, 159, steam crane and other items, the team isn't resting on its laurels just yet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I am just glad to see the few models I await from Barwell have not been cancelled! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 If a chassis upgrade for the J39 is not seen as economical by Bachmann, then I suspect the same will be true for the Manor and Mogul. It's simply not enough of an improvement to secure the necessary sales. They need a body tooling upgrade as well. Didn't Bachmann admit as much with the LMS/BR 2-6-2T (412xx) upgrade that sales were disappointing. So I suspect these models will all go into the category of all new tooling and be considered for inclusion in the range at a future date on that basis... Bachmann have had poor outcomes 'both ways'. They changed policy on their split chassis renewals after the complete new tooling for the Jubilee proved disappointing in retail return. (Fine model it remains.) They switched to mechanism only renewals after that. My opinion is that many of the Mainline models were good and well liked for appearance (and the Jubilee one of the best of them) and with tens of thousands 'out there' s/h prices were depressing the realisable sale price of the all new successor. I feel this applies in spades to the smaller models like the J72 (and J39 though it was never a Mainline release) which being lighter tend to be less affected by the weaknesses of the split chassis design; and have suggested to Bachmann that alternative models might be a better choice. Specifically the J69 and J6 for those two, neither having ever had a RTR OO model, and both with very specific attractions. They were polite, but clearly not much interested in the idea... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Bachmann have had poor outcomes 'both ways'. They changed policy on their split chassis renewals after the complete new tooling for the Jubilee proved disappointing in retail return. (Fine model it remains.) They switched to mechanism only renewals after that. My opinion is that many of the Mainline models were good and well liked for appearance (and the Jubilee one of the best of them) and with tens of thousands 'out there' s/h prices were depressing the realisable sale price of the all new successor. I feel this applies in spades to the smaller models like the J72 (and J39 though it was never a Mainline release) which being lighter tend to be less affected by the weaknesses of the split chassis design; and have suggested to Bachmann that alternative models might be a better choice. Specifically the J69 and J6 for those two, neither having ever had a RTR OO model, and both with very specific attractions. They were polite, but clearly not much interested in the idea... I had been waiting for two models from Bachmann, the J39 and V2. I have 'wishlisted' the V2 to Hornby several times in the appropriate thread, unfortunately not to be. I now find myself in the position of having no pre-orders whatsoever with Bachmann, my last, the SR H2, was delivered before Xmas. contrast this with my current pre-orders with Hornby, and I really haven't started on the 2019 releases yet. I would like the 2P 0.4.4T, and the Builleids, plus the commisioned G5, but since there is no idea of when they are likely to appear, or at what cost, there seems to be little point. Similarly, I would like a rake of maroon Portholes and Thompsons, and would have bought same right from release; as it is, I have two C/cream Thompsons, it could have been 8 or so, Will Bachmann bean-counters reflect that Thompsons were a poor investment? Bulleids: On another thread, it is stated how few Bulleids received C/Cream livery, what features in Bachmanns first release? (When??). Do Barwell have the secret to eternal life? If so can they make it available so we see these items in our infinite lifetime? Would buy multiples of locos., coaches in the right livery and choices, how many cranes is the average modeller going to buy? Cheers from Oz, Peter C. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) I now find myself in the position of having no pre-orders whatsoever with Bachmann, my last, the SR H2, was delivered before Xmas. contrast this with my current pre-orders with Hornby, and I really haven't started on the 2019 releases yet. I would like the 2P 0.4.4T, and the Builleids, plus the commisioned G5, but since there is no idea of when they are likely to appear, or at what cost, there seems to be little point. Similarly, I would like a rake of maroon Portholes and Thompsons, and would have bought same right from release; as it is, I have two C/cream Thompsons, it could have been 8 or so, Will Bachmann bean-counters reflect that Thompsons were a poor investment? . Likewise I have nothing on my Blue Box wishlist at the moment except for maroon Portholes. A big change from the time of the Porthole fiasco when after three years they pulled the release of the C/C BTK then when finally delivered charged about 1/3 more for it. I commented over four years ago that they seemed intent on drivimg us into the Red corner and my recent purchases have proved this to be so. Would buy multiples of locos., coaches in the right livery and choices, how many cranes is the average modeller going to buy? Same here as my current Hornby wishlist shows about £600 of items due for delivery this year. As far as cranes are concerned you only need a big one if you have a big MPD, often an 'A' shed with a capacity to take several dozen locos, or two if you are planning a re-enactment of a major disaster. Edited January 9, 2019 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 A local retailer once told me that the (then new) Bachmann class 03 didn't sell very well because of the previous version, but the 2EPB did—in an area of the country (NE England) where 03s were more common than 2EPBs! If that's so it suggests all-new models would be a better bet. I'm still surprised by the lack of an OO J69. It would probably do better than the OO J72, although N gauge would have the same issues as the J72. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Would buy multiples of locos., coaches in the right livery and choices, how many cranes is the average modeller going to buy? But there are a lot of people who will buy the crane for its uniqueness or looks even if their layout (if they currently have a layout) isn't appropriate for such a piece of equipment. On the other hand "most" modellers buy far more locos than they do coaches, so coaches aren't always the great idea for a new model that those of us who try to be more accurate often think they should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 What are the alternatives though? The present Bachmann offering is well outdated, and there isn't, to my knowledge, an available kit. If there were, what would the cost of kit, wheels and motor be, before even starting to build it? Or, getting someone good enough to build it for you? The alternative is a scratch build. I know how much that costs if built and painted by really good professionals, as I've got one. If Bachmann's eventually comes in at even as much as £250 it will be cheap when compared with those alternatives. PDK do a kit. http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/PL%201.htm Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Yes, that was my thought too. Accurascale have attained - in remarkably short time - a reputation for producing first class products, and seem to be able to bring them to market in months. Bachmann's relinquishing the Prestwin certainly opens the way for someone else to take it. And Accurascale seem to have a fondness for cement wagons .......! John Storey Yes - and for taking on complicated prototypes at a reasonable price. Which makes you wonder why they can do it but Bachmann can't? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 A local retailer once told me that the (then new) Bachmann class 03 didn't sell very well because of the previous version, but the 2EPB did—in an area of the country (NE England) where 03s were more common than 2EPBs! If that's so it suggests all-new models would be a better bet. I'm still surprised by the lack of an OO J69. It would probably do better than the OO J72, although N gauge would have the same issues as the J72. Possibly why the 04 has not appeared as they are waiting for a suitable gap before it reappears with a revised bod and chassis! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I'm surprised that in such a loco centric hobby, that locos have been ditched and not the overexpensive and over engineered crane. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) What are the alternatives though? The present Bachmann offering is well outdated, and there isn't, to my knowledge, an available kit. If there were, what would the cost of kit, wheels and motor be, before even starting to build it? Or, getting someone good enough to build it for you? The alternative is a scratch build. I know how much that costs if built and painted by really good professionals, as I've got one. If Bachmann's eventually comes in at even as much as £250 it will be cheap when compared with those alternatives. TBH Gilbert I've 3 of Graeme Kings rebodied v2s. I was hoping Hornby would take acrack at it. They'd do a better job of it than Bachmann especially around the cartazzi Edited January 9, 2019 by davidw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I'm surprised that in such a loco centric hobby, that locos have been ditched and not the overexpensive and over engineered crane. Maybe because the crane is virtually finished and will sell. It's probably cost them tens of thousands of pounds to get to that stage. I reckon they are being sensible. Does anyone really need a J39 at the moment? Plenty of them about. Just put it on the back burner for a few years. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 The last Bachmann chassis upgrade was on the LNER V1/V3 still with a diabolical very old body on top. I doubt if they hardly sold any. The J39 body by comparison is a good moulding, the GS Tender however is very poor and dated. The V2 supposed to be getting a new body, a ludicrous afterthought/ business decision as the V2 body is even worse than the V1/V3, then after bringing out a new chassis only. No idea if they are doing anything about the Tender it will pull however ? Hornby are miles ahead in overall quality and mouldings at the moment. G5 I would like, but no way would I preorder without even a suggested price or a mock up of what it will look like. J72 strange choice to upgrade as the ex Mainline body was quite good, compared to above classes .It actually would have been better with just a new chassis and Bachmann might have sold a few. I have 3 of the current J72's , I doubt very much I will need anymore, no chance at the current r.r.p . The problem with upgrades of existing classes are unless very good compared to the preceding model e.g latest Hornby A3 (before the Book Law and since serious moulding flaw versions since produced) and their A4, who will want to buy any, can afford them as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Max Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 What are the alternatives though? The present Bachmann offering is well outdated, and there isn't, to my knowledge, an available kit. If there were, what would the cost of kit, wheels and motor be, before even starting to build it? Or, getting someone good enough to build it for you? The alternative is a scratch build. I know how much that costs if built and painted by really good professionals, as I've got one. If Bachmann's eventually comes in at even as much as £250 it will be cheap when compared with those alternatives. There is also the Finney kit now available from Brassmasters, but you are talking well over £200 for loco and tender Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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