Great Canadian Railway Journeys

[melmerby]

 

PS VIA No. 4 - the 'new' train, is the third transcontinental curtailed in order to try to get better time-keeping. Some services ran as much as 45 hours late in 2018 due to CN prioritising its freight traffic.

I've noticed that Amtrak's long distance services get equally shafted by freight, as some of theirs are many hours late.

Such as this current report:

 

 

Keith

[pH]

Via Rail run from Vancouver to Toronto (Via Kamloops):

https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/trains/rockies-and-pacific

 

How much of that is on CP tracks?

 

 

In 1990 budget cuts from the government resulted in the cancellation of the former CN Super Continental, and the move of the Canadian from CPR tracks to essentially the former Super Continental route.

 

Yes, the Canadian uses CN tracks over what was the route of the Super Continental. However, because of a "directional running" agreement between CN and CP in the Fraser and Thompson Canyons, it still uses CP tracks between Mission and Basque, a distance of about 150 miles.

 

It also uses BNSF-owned (though CN-operated) tracks for the first 15 miles or so out of Vancouver.

[pH]

We can't watch i-Player here in Canada. However, we've managed to find some of the episodes on Youtube. Last night we watched the "Port Moody to Kamloops" and "Kamloops to Banff" episodes, and were quite impressed with them. I wish I had known that Michael Portillo was filming in Port Moody - we live there - I would have gone to see it. I don't think there were any mistakes in the narration, which is quite unusual in programs made by companies from other countries.

 

There were a couple of things he did miss out that I think could have been included. When describing the Spiral Tunnels above Field, he only talked about the lower tunnel, There is an upper tunnel, which turns about another 270 degrees. (The Spiral Tunnels - think of two Tehachapi Loops ... underground!) He also talked about water on either side of the Continental Divide flowing to the Pacific on one side and the Atlantic (through Hudson's Bay) on the other. He could have shown this:

 

 

 

It's a creek right on the Divide, beside the CP line. The story is that it naturally ran one way, but crews building the CP realised it was very close to the top and "modified" it to split at the large rock in the centre background. The water enters this picture form the right, then splits right to the Atlantic and left to the Pacific. 

[BR60103]

Pacifc231G

The Budd cars on The Canadian are not RDCs. 

As far as I can see, the RDCs are used on the White River train (a couple of them) or stored.

[jsp3970]

Pacifc231G

The Budd cars on The Canadian are not RDCs. 

As far as I can see, the RDCs are used on the White River train (a couple of them) or stored.

Since you are in Guelph you would probably know more about this than someone who lives in Calgary. VIA had plans to operate RDC's to Sarnia and even ran a test or two. What has happened to this? Have the plans been dropped?

[peach james]

I've noticed that Amtrak's long distance services get equally shafted by freight, as some of theirs are many hours late.

Such as this current report:

 

amtrak.JPG

 

Keith

 

Amtrak has legal priority, Via does not...

 

While Amtrak does not always make its timings, 2017 and 18 were horrible for the Canadian.  Traffic to Vancouver is through the roof, and both CN & CP are struggling with freight let alone passenger.  Since The Canadian has a lower priority than ye olde load o' grain, guess which gets to wait ?  The laws of unintended consequences...

 

The Canadian's schedule could not be more anemic than it is.  You could do the trip faster in the 20's, hauled by steam.  You probably could do the trip faster in the 80's.  That's 1880's...  At least one of "The Canadian" was delayed by more than 28 hours.  Now, Canada is really big, but 28 hours on a 4 day long trip is a substantial delay.  The 1997 trip I did we lost about 2 hours, and I remember going Winnipeg-Sioux Lookout at 79 MPH to make up time.  January travel, and one of the most fun trips I have done.  I detrained at LongLac and spent the morning in the train station, to catch the bus to Thunder Bay.  Of course, like a stupid bunch of idiots, the train misses the only city for 500 miles...which should show you what the priority is...

 

James

[melmerby]

Amtrak has legal priority, Via does not...

 

While Amtrak does not always make its timings,

James

Apart from the east coast corridor, timings appear to be generally pretty awful.

 

"does not always make its timings" is IMHO slightly off the mark. "rarely meets it's timings" more like.

Although long distance services end to end journeys are often near to schedule many of the intermediate stops are way off by hours

 

There are currently 8 trains on two routes from Chicago to the West Coast only one is on time, the rest are late by up to 4 hours, that one lost over an hour just getting from Chicago to Napierville, two others are over 90m late.

They might have legal priority but getting stuck behind a long slow freight on a single track line doesn't help.

 

Keith

[Pacific231G]

Pacifc231G

The Budd cars on The Canadian are not RDCs. 

As far as I can see, the RDCs are used on the White River train (a couple of them) or stored.

 

hi David

Perhaps I wasn't being entirely clear. It was while checking out the coaches in use on The Canadian that I found Via's lists of their passenger stock.

https://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet

I was then slightly surprised to find that they still had six RDCs in service,mainly as you say on the thrice weekly White River service (trains 185 and 186) but they're indeed nothing to do with The Canadian.

 

According to Via's listing they have 3 RDC1, 2 RDC 2 and one RDC4. These have been retro-fitted with diaphragms to allow passengers to move through the train. Via say that its sole RDC4 is the only one still in service anywhere and used on the White River route

This is a baggage/mail only unit seen four years ago in this photo, (see also Dibber25's interesting posting #50 yesterday evening)

Via 185 Sudbury to White River July 26 2014 Creative Commons by K.Reiss.

 

The RDC 4 is baggage/post only and appears to be half the standard consist for this train, except on days of high demand when an extra unit has to be added, so does Via still have a healthy sundries traffic and/or postal contracts? (The RDC2s also have a baggage compartment). The passenger carrying RDCs are economy class only and I'd guess that, if they're still used for anything apart from the White River route, it would be for private charters.

BTW. Though Via say they have the only remaining RDCs in regular service. I did find this from 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6D1e20efU0

 

What also surprised me about the stocklist was the age of much of Via's stock with a lot of it, including it appears the entire consist of The Canadian, dating from the mid 1950s . Obviously it's been refurbished more than one but how do those coaches ride? I've just been listening to Saturday Live and the author of Around the World in 80 Trains was commenting on how rough the riding was of Amtrak's trains- describing them as amongst the worst trains they encountered. She'd also travelled on The Canadian so I don't know if that's better (better track perhaps?)

Edited January 26, 2019 by Pacific231G

[mdvle]

Since you are in Guelph you would probably know more about this than someone who lives in Calgary. VIA had plans to operate RDC's to Sarnia and even ran a test or two. What has happened to this? Have the plans been dropped?

 

No idea what happened to the plans but it hasn't started and I believe the RDC's are stored at the Toronto Maintenance Centre.

 

It may be that they needed the units they bid on to have enough to implement the service, or it may be as simple as they decided the passengers would object to changing trains and thus the loss of customers would exceed the benefits of using the RDCs.

[BR60103]

Just think that the Canadian train sets are about the age of BR's Mk1.  They are, I think, in the middle of their 3rd rebuilding but I haven't been on them since just after the first!

The Sarnia service is only once a day (if I read the timetable right) and you can spend the night there. There used to be another train, but you couldn't book a day trip because there wasn't enough time to guarantee you'd make the trip back. (??)

We don't have a VIA station agent in Guelph anymore. Going to the station, you can pick up the phone and talk to (someone). 

[JCL]

On the discussion of trains from Cictoria, a lot of you know far more than I do, my only contribution is that the track goes past the back of my house at Shaunigan Lake. Its condition is terrible. Ties are rotten, and resemble Peco’s 099 crazy track, and in places the rail itself is worn out. My neighbour, who is a huge train fan, tells me from time to time that something will happen on the line, but I can’t see the political will to spend the money needed. Last I heard there were conversations about a pontoon bridge from the peninsula and a hi-rail bus service over the Malahat.

 

At the same time, highway 1 heading north filters down to a single lane road through the Malahat. As James says, when there is an accident, Victoria is practically closed off. Options are a 5hr round trip via Renfrew, a 2 jump ferry, or the Brentwood ferry that barely has any room on it. There are new subdivisions being created north of the Malahat (it’s a low mountain pass), so it’s not going to get any easier.

 

On a positive note, if you’re in the area, look at Port Alberni and the heritage steam there.

 

https://alberniheritage.com/alberni-pacific-railway

[dibber25]

hi David

Perhaps I wasn't being entirely clear. It was while checking out the coaches in use on The Canadian that I found Via's lists of their passenger stock.

https://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet

I was then slightly surprised to find that they still had six RDCs in service,mainly as you say on the thrice weekly White River service (trains 185 and 186) but they're indeed nothing to do with The Canadian.

 

According to Via's listing they have 3 RDC1, 2 RDC 2 and one RDC4. These have been retro-fitted with diaphragms to allow passengers to move through the train. Via say that its sole RDC4 is the only one still in service anywhere and used on the White River route

This is a baggage/mail only unit seen four years ago in this photo, (see also Dibber25's interesting posting #50 yesterday evening)

VIA_185_(Sudbury_to_White_River).jpg

Via 185 Sudbury to White River July 26 2014 Creative Commons by K.Reiss.

 

The RDC 4 is baggage/post only and appears to be half the standard consist for this train, except on days of high demand when an extra unit has to be added, so does Via still have a healthy sundries traffic and/or postal contracts? (The RDC2s also have a baggage compartment). The passenger carrying RDCs are economy class only and I'd guess that, if they're still used for anything apart from the White River route, it would be for private charters.

BTW. Though Via say they have the only remaining RDCs in regular service. I did find this from 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6D1e20efU0

 

What also surprised me about the stocklist was the age of much of Via's stock with a lot of it, including it appears the entire consist of The Canadian, dating from the mid 1950s . Obviously it's been refurbished more than one but how do those coaches ride? I've just been listening to Saturday Live and the author of Around the World in 80 Trains was commenting on how rough the riding was of Amtrak's trains- describing them as amongst the worst trains they encountered. She'd also travelled on The Canadian so I don't know if that's better (better track perhaps?)

 

Sudbury-White River (look for VIA trains 185 and 186) serves an area with hunting, shooting and fishing lodges that are only accessible by train. All their supplies go in and out by the RDC-4. I'll find some more pictures and post them. The RDC-4 has rails inside the roof so you can hang your moose, deer, bear etc. When i travelled it was mainly anglers who were travelling. Seems that fishing in Canada involves emptying the lake and refilling it with beer, judging by the amount that was being loaded! There are two two-car sets of RDCs for this service, one in traffic and the other as back-up. Both are formed of rebuilt and re-engineered RDC2 plus RDC-4. A couple of cars were similarly converted for the Victoria-Courtenay service on Vancouver Island but that railway was closed before they ever ran there. They have since been used for tests on the London-Windsor section where it was hoped they would replace through trains, freeing-up much-needed loco-hauled stock for additional corridor service. It never happened because CN said they could not be relied upon to operate track circuits at grade crossings. Presumably they are OK between Sudbury-White River because (1) it's CP not CN and (2) there are only a handful of grade crossings. 

[dibber25]

First off, here's a shot of the RDC in CP Rail days, known as the Dayliner on Vancouver Island. My sister lived at Shawinigan Lake and this is passing near her house in 1976. The track was awful then and it didn't get any better!

The other views were taken 2018 on the Sudbury-White River RDC run. (I love RDCs and I've now done the only available RDC rides in Canada.) The interior shot of 6250 shows the rails for hanging carcases. Also, refuelling en route as the cars can't do there and back on a tank of gas and there's no refuelling facility at White River. A tanker meets the train at Chapleau. The picture of the train being loaded is at Sudbury - the 'busy' end of the run. I flew there from Toronto. (CJL)

[dibber25]

PS. The cool boxes go out full of beer and come back full of trout. Well, that's the theory! (CJL)

[railroadbill]

re Esquimalt and Nanaimo railway, here's a link to some details I posted on another topic, with timetables for 1976.

 

#106

 

 

It ran as far as Parksville then.

Edited January 27, 2019 by railroadbill

[peach james]

On the discussion of trains from Victoria, a lot of you know far more than I do, my only contribution is that the track goes past the back of my house at Shawnigan Lake. Its condition is terrible. Ties are rotten, and resemble Peco’s 099 crazy track, and in places the rail itself is worn out. My neighbour, who is a huge train fan, tells me from time to time that something will happen on the line, but I can’t see the political will to spend the money needed. Last I heard there were conversations about a pontoon bridge from the peninsula and a hi-rail bus service over the Malahat.

 

At the same time, highway 1 heading north filters down to a single lane road through the Malahat. As James says, when there is an accident, Victoria is practically closed off. Options are a 5hr round trip via Renfrew, a 2 jump ferry, or the Brentwood ferry that barely has any room on it. There are new subdivisions being created north of the Malahat (it’s a low mountain pass), so it’s not going to get any easier.

 

On a positive note, if you’re in the area, look at Port Alberni and the heritage steam there.

 

https://alberniheritage.com/alberni-pacific-railway

 

Nope- no steam on the APR until #7 gets new tubes, and possibly a new barrel.  Which means 113 is probably closer.

 

I'm sitting with a big pile of boiler tubes, but they aren't for APR .

 

James  

[railroadbill]

Found a few pics of the westbound "Canadian" back in 1974.  They're scans of old prints from even older slides so rather rough.

 

 

This was at Thunder bay.

 

 

 

Westbound Canadian stopped out on the prairies. Not sure where, though.

 

 

[

 

Locomotives for The Canadian at Calgary in 1974. The GP9 had just replaced another loco.  8516 became 1572 when rebuilt in 1984 then 8250.

 

 

[dibber25]

Tonight's episode featured a Dubs 4-4-0 on the Prairie Dog Central line in Manitoba. I don't think we have much in the way of Dubs products preserved in the UK? (CJL)

[melmerby]

Tonight's episode featured a Dubs 4-4-0 on the Prairie Dog Central line in Manitoba. I don't think we have much in the way of Dubs products preserved in the UK? (CJL)

Pure American but built in Glasgow in 1882!

 

Every bit a take on the original Rogers 4-4-0.

Taper Boiler, three point suspension, outside cylinders with inside valve gear, "wooden shed" cab, bogie tender.

 

Keith

 

EDIT

Probably the only Dübs in the UK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelton_Iron_%26_Steel_Works_No._4101

Several locos of types Dübs had made have been preserved but not a Dübs manufactured one!

 

Also one on the IOM (not strictly UK)

Manx Northern Railway 0-6-0T No.4 Caledonia

 

Several in Australia & NZ.

Edited January 28, 2019 by melmerby