Railease Mk1 Carflat

[Steven B]

Back in 1979, Standard Wagon built 25 air-braked Car flats from Mk1 underframes. All the photos I've been able to find of them show them unloaded.

 

What were they used for?

 

Were they used in block trains or would then be seen running in smaller numbers on Speedlink services?

[hmrspaul]

Back in 1979, Standard Wagon built 25 air-braked Car flats from Mk1 underframes. All the photos I've been able to find of them show them unloaded.

 

What were they used for?

 

Were they used in block trains or would then be seen running in smaller numbers on Speedlink services?

These were rare wagons, as you note.

 

My photographs - Millerhill and Luton suggest they were used in block trains, which would be appropriate for private hire wagons.  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/raileasecarflat

 

Paul

Edited January 9, 2019 by hmrspaul

[Mark Saunders]

There was some discussing these recently and it appears they were working in Ford traffic with the Cartic Fours, hence the requirement for air brakes.

 

Mark Saunders

[Wickham Green]

These were rare wagons, as you note.

 

My photographs - Millerhill and Luton suggest they were used in block trains, which would be appropriate for private hire wagons.  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/raileasecarflat

 

Paul

A pure guess - but the use of FLATS rather than double-deckers and involvement of Luton might suggest they were intended for Bedford vans.

[SED Freightman]

David Ratcliffe's book 'Private-Owner Wagons in Colour' contains a photo showing Railease Carflats loaded with Ford Transit vans loaded at Eastleigh en route to Garston, it also states that they were used to convey Renaults from Goole to Perth and Vauxhalls from Luton to Bathgate.  Additionally, they were loaded at Queenborough with traffic for Scotland (Bathgate & Stranraer I think) which passed via the Speedlink network.

[Mike Storey]

David Ratcliffe's book 'Private-Owner Wagons in Colour' contains a photo showing Railease Carflats loaded with Ford Transit vans loaded at Eastleigh en route to Garston, it also states that they were used to convey Renaults from Goole to Perth and Vauxhalls from Luton to Bathgate.  Additionally, they were loaded at Queenborough with traffic for Scotland (Bathgate & Stranraer I think) which passed via the Speedlink network.

 

Indeed. We (as in Mainland Auto Transport and SR Freight) trialled them at Queenborough, because a large number of Toyota vans were coming into Sheerness, which could not fit onto to the normal double-decker units we used. I think they were dispatched to the West Midlands as much as the usual Bathgate (for Scottish distribution) and Stranraer (for the Northern Ireland business) destinations that the Autics and Cartics were usually sent. We had been using spare LowMacs (or a similar, single-axled, low slung wagon whose denomination escapes me), which were obviously not very efficient in terms of number of vehicles. The Carflats usually numbered up to 4 in a longer rake of Autics/Cartics. I never saw a complete trainload of Carflats bound for Hoo or Willesden. I left my Sittingbourne ASM job before the trials were finished, so don't know how long that continued.

 

But it does mean you can legitimately use carflats in short formations (as part of Speedlink trips or long-haul) for mid-1980's traffic, for modelling purposes. Which is why I have committed to a few, but I cannot find a 00/HO model of the flipping vans!! (Apart from some very expensive Japanese-made models at extortionate prices on E-buy.)

[Fat Controller]

I'm pretty certain I saw some examples at the military platform (opposite Dover Town Yard) in the early 1990s. They were being used on Land Rover traffic, which was unloaded there before being taken to the Hoverport; LR had an agreement to take any spare space on the Hovercraft (and Seacat) for their French export traffic. The vehicles came in small numbers on the successor to Speedlink.

[Hump Shunter]

The Standard Railway Wagon Co Heywood Works book by David W Tandy ISBN 9780955235429, attributes the build to Silcock & Colling / Railease.

 

"They were converted at SRW Heywood and Reddish Works."

 

"This fleet was originally designed for the carriage of vans, Range Rover and Land Rover vehicles, too big to be carried on Cartic type wagons"

 

"They also carried Vauxhalls and Renaults spending most of their life working to and from Perth, and Bathgate to Garston and Dagenham Docks"

[Steven B]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Anoyingly I've got both books mentioned (David Ratcliffe & David Tandy) but didn't think to look in them.

 

I'm currently tempted by a couple of them carrying some Oxford Diecast Royal Mail Landrover Postbuses. The Mk3 Transits shown in the Ratcliffe book are tempting, but unavailable in N Gauge and would be a repeat of the rake of van carrying FMA wagons I also have planned.

[SED Freightman]

Indeed. We (as in Mainland Auto Transport and SR Freight) trialled them at Queenborough, because a large number of Toyota vans were coming into Sheerness, which could not fit onto to the normal double-decker units we used. I think they were dispatched to the West Midlands as much as the usual Bathgate (for Scottish distribution) and Stranraer (for the Northern Ireland business) destinations that the Autics and Cartics were usually sent. We had been using spare LowMacs (or a similar, single-axled, low slung wagon whose denomination escapes me), which were obviously not very efficient in terms of number of vehicles. The Carflats usually numbered up to 4 in a longer rake of Autics/Cartics. I never saw a complete trainload of Carflats bound for Hoo or Willesden. I left my Sittingbourne ASM job before the trials were finished, so don't know how long that continued.

 

But it does mean you can legitimately use carflats in short formations (as part of Speedlink trips or long-haul) for mid-1980's traffic, for modelling purposes. Which is why I have committed to a few, but I cannot find a 00/HO model of the flipping vans!! (Apart from some very expensive Japanese-made models at extortionate prices on E-buy.)

 

The customers at Queenborough were (as I recall) Pre-Delivery Inspection Ltd and Mainland Car Deliveries Ltd, with rail wagons being provided by MAT (Machinery & Technical) Transport, whose automotive division later became MAT Transauto, and Railease whose wagons were often labelled CarTrain.  My only photo of a Railease Carflat at Queenborough was taken during a trial loading of Mazda cars in 1981, although the carflat is empty and appears to have been used simply as a barrier between the Pier Sdg loading ramp and a Railease Autic, possibly due to an issue with deck heights.  I think the single low deck  wagons may have been Comtics.  As far as I recall, the only complete trains of Carflats from Queenborough were formed of BR wagons which were loaded in the Bone Yard (Shipbreakers Sdg).

[Mike Storey]

The customers at Queenborough were (as I recall) Pre-Delivery Inspection Ltd and Mainland Car Deliveries Ltd, with rail wagons being provided by MAT (Machinery & Technical) Transport, whose automotive division later became MAT Transauto, and Railease whose wagons were often labelled CarTrain.  My only photo of a Railease Carflat at Queenborough was taken during a trial loading of Mazda cars in 1981, although the carflat is empty and appears to have been used simply as a barrier between the Pier Sdg loading ramp and a Railease Autic, possibly due to an issue with deck heights.  I think the single low deck  wagons may have been Comtics.  As far as I recall, the only complete trains of Carflats from Queenborough were formed of BR wagons which were loaded in the Bone Yard (Shipbreakers Sdg).

 

Comtics! That rings a bell - thanks! They were more-or-less single deck versions of Autics. I have a couple of HO models (Electrotren I think) of something similar to those, which I intend to Anglicise at some point.

 

You're right that MCD were the ultimate customers for vehicles out of Sheerness / Queenborough (I recall PDI were just the firm that unloaded/loaded to and from the massive MCD car pounds) but we just referred to all traffic as MAT, as that is what we dealt with. MAT Transauto Ltd was a title they used quite early on, and very few wagons were signed as such, with the big MAT signs being the primary labelling. You can also find pics of CarTrain vehicles also labelled MAT. It was certainly a mixed collection of companies. Railease vehicles (or at least ones badged as such) were pretty rare at Queenborough - they were noticeable by being usually bright orange (and some were yellow?) - you more often saw them at Dover.

 

Interesting explanation of the initials MAT. We must have bastardised Mainland from MCD with Transauto from MAT to get Mainland Auto Transport! I never heard of "Machinery & Technical" Transport in the two years I worked with them, so thanks for that.

[Fat Controller]

Comtics! That rings a bell - thanks! They were more-or-less single deck versions of Autics. I have a couple of HO models (Electrotren I think) of something similar to those, which I intend to Anglicise at some point.

 

You're right that MCD were the ultimate customers for vehicles out of Sheerness / Queenborough (I recall PDI were just the firm that unloaded/loaded to and from the massive MCD car pounds) but we just referred to all traffic as MAT, as that is what we dealt with. MAT Transauto Ltd was a title they used quite early on, and very few wagons were signed as such, with the big MAT signs being the primary labelling. You can also find pics of CarTrain vehicles also labelled MAT. It was certainly a mixed collection of companies. Railease vehicles (or at least ones badged as such) were pretty rare at Queenborough - they were noticeable by being usually bright orange (and some were yellow?) - you more often saw them at Dover.

 

Interesting explanation of the initials MAT. We must have bastardised Mainland from MCD with Transauto from MAT to get Mainland Auto Transport! I never heard of "Machinery & Technical" Transport in the two years I worked with them, so thanks for that.

Railease were a joint operation between Barclay's Bank and Standard Wagon; the blue used on their scrap-carrying fleet was Barclay's house colour. Their car-carrying fleet consisted of Autics and Comtics, built by SNAV at Lyon, and the Carflats. When Standard ceased operations, the vehicle-carrying fleet went to MAT, who were soon absorbed by STVA, a SNCF subsidiary. One Carflat was to be seen in STVA livery; curiously, it had been rebogied with Y25s. The MAT/STVA fleet, apart from the Carflats, was used on workings from Longbridge to Italy until Rover went bust.

I'm not sure, but I thought the Railease Carflats were built on ex-SR Bulleid underframes?

[Mike Storey]

Railease were a joint operation between Barclay's Bank and Standard Wagon; the blue used on their scrap-carrying fleet was Barclay's house colour. Their car-carrying fleet consisted of Autics and Comtics, built by SNAV at Lyon, and the Carflats. When Standard ceased operations, the vehicle-carrying fleet went to MAT, who were soon absorbed by STVA, a SNCF subsidiary. One Carflat was to be seen in STVA livery; curiously, it had been rebogied with Y25s. The MAT/STVA fleet, apart from the Carflats, was used on workings from Longbridge to Italy until Rover went bust.

I'm not sure, but I thought the Railease Carflats were built on ex-SR Bulleid underframes?

 

I know MAT became STVA UK in 1996, and Standard Wagon was absorbed by Powell Duffryn in 1989, but when did MAT take over the Railease fleet? I seem to recall small MAT wagon plates on Railease-branded wagons somewhat earlier than that?

[Fat Controller]

I know MAT became STVA UK in 1996, and Standard Wagon was absorbed by Powell Duffryn in 1989, but when did MAT take over the Railease fleet? I seem to recall small MAT wagon plates on Railease-branded wagons somewhat earlier than that?

I think it may have been just after the Channel Tunnel opened, as I'm sure I saw some Railease-liveried wagons in the early days. This may have been in the train that was sent to Dover to cross via the train ferry, as the permission to operate services through the Tunnel was delayed at very short notice. I was at Dover Pier when it turned up, followed by an irate team from MAT in a car.

There was a block working of tractors in the early days, which I think may have used Railease-liveried Comtics.

[SED Freightman]

Railease were a joint operation between Barclay's Bank and Standard Wagon

 

Railease were a subsidiary of the Standard Railway Wagon Co Ltd, who were a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mercantile Credit Co Ltd, who were a subsidiary of Barclays Plc - info obtained fron Railease / Standard Wagon Co Ltd documents.

[hmrspaul]

 

I'm not sure, but I thought the Railease Carflats were built on ex-SR Bulleid underframes?

No, it is the MAT carflats that were on SR underframes - a much earlier, 1963   and more numerous conversion although air braked,  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/matcarflat

 

Railease were a  late conversion - 1979 on BR Mark 1 frames  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/raileasecarflat

 

Paul

[Fat Controller]

Railease were a subsidiary of the Standard Railway Wagon Co Ltd, who were a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mercantile Credit Co Ltd, who were a subsidiary of Barclays Plc - info obtained fron Railease / Standard Wagon Co Ltd documents.

I hadn't realised the relationship was that close; presumably dating from the days when there were huge fleets of Private Owner wagons.

[SED Freightman]

Managed to find my only photo showing a Railease Carflat (just), which I believe was taken in 1981 during a trial loading of Mazda cars onto a Railease Autic (RLS 92028) standing on the Pier Siding at Queenborough.  This occasion was clearly of some importance as the Regional Loads Inspector, Terry Knight, is in attendance.  Judging by the number of MAT Cartic scotches laying around this may perhaps have been the first appearance of Railease wagons at this location.

 

[108]

Managed to find my only photo showing a Railease Carflat (just), which I believe was taken in 1981 during a trial loading of Mazda cars onto a Railease Autic (RLS 92028) standing on the Pier Siding at Queenborough. This occasion was clearly of some importance as the Regional Loads Inspector, Terry Knight, is in attendance. Judging by the number of MAT Cartic scotches laying around this may perhaps have been the first appearance of Railease wagons at this location.

 

COPY 1981.xx.xx 002PUB Queenborough Pier Sdg - RLS 92028 Railease PKA Autic wagon during trial loading of Mazda cars - RM Web.jpg

Are these not Fiat 125’s?

[keefer]

According to Wiki they were only made by Fiat until 1972, so this would be a Polish Polski Fiat 125p which were made until 1991. ISTR these becoming popular late '70s as one of the cheapest on-the-road cars available.

[Mike Storey]

Managed to find my only photo showing a Railease Carflat (just), which I believe was taken in 1981 during a trial loading of Mazda cars onto a Railease Autic (RLS 92028) standing on the Pier Siding at Queenborough.  This occasion was clearly of some importance as the Regional Loads Inspector, Terry Knight, is in attendance.  Judging by the number of MAT Cartic scotches laying around this may perhaps have been the first appearance of Railease wagons at this location.

 

COPY 1981.xx.xx 002PUB Queenborough Pier Sdg - RLS 92028 Railease PKA Autic wagon during trial loading of Mazda cars - RM Web.jpg

 

Fascinating picture - many thanks. 

 

I think I remember Terry coming to Ridham during the Falklands war, to ensure the loading gauge checks on the lowmacs being filled with bent armoured cars and land rovers, were being done properly by the Divisional inspectors. (Ridham was used for stuff being sent back). I was only there to apply the hoop seals to the ammo wagons, so had a lot of time to spare to watch them do much more interesting stuff!

[SED Freightman]

I'm afraid my knowledge of car type / makes is somewhat lacking despite having observed the loading and unloading of several thousand in rail terminals over the years, so many thanks to '108' and 'keefer' for pointing out my error.  I had wrongly assumed that as the first vehicle loaded (top deck leading) had a Mazda badge they would all be the same, however closer inspection of the leading vehicle on the lower deck shows a Polski badge and most if not all of the other vehicles loaded appear to be similar.  Sorry to deviate from the original topic but I had not realised that Polish built Fiats had been loaded at Queenborough, perhaps those with more knowledge of car types can identify the remainder of the load in the photo below.

 

Another view of the trial loading on the Pier Sdg at Queenborough, thought to have been taken in 1981, and showing the empty Railease Carflat positioned between the Autic and loading ramp.  The assembled staff indicate the importance of the occasion, with from right to left - Terry Knight, SR Regional Loads Inspector (adjusting a scotch); Basil Wilson, SED Terminals & Cartage Inspector; Unknown (in light suit); Stan ?, Supervisor Ashford Freight Gang; Ron Box, SED Freight & Terminals Officer (note his umbrella hanging on wagon); the three men on far left are probably the other members of the Ashford Freight Gang.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Storey]

I'm afraid my knowledge of car type / makes is somewhat lacking despite having observed the loading and unloading of several thousand in rail terminals over the years, so many thanks to '108' and 'keefer' for pointing out my error.  I had wrongly assumed that as the first vehicle loaded (top deck leading) had a Mazda badge they would all be the same, however closer inspection of the leading vehicle on the lower deck shows a Polski badge and most if not all of the other vehicles loaded appear to be similar.  Sorry to deviate from the original topic but I had not realised that Polish built Fiats had been loaded at Queenborough, perhaps those with more knowledge of car types can identify the remainder of the load in the photo below.

 

COPY 1981.xx.xx 004PUB Queenborough Pier Sdg - RLS 92028 Railease PKA Autic wagon during trial loading of cars - RM Web.jpg

Another view of the trial loading on the Pier Sdg at Queenborough, thought to have been taken in 1981, and showing the empty Railease Carflat positioned between the Autic and loading ramp.  The assembled staff indicate the importance of the occasion, with from right to left - Terry Knight, SR Regional Loads Inspector (adjusting a scotch); Basil Wilson, SED Terminals & Cartage Inspector; Unknown (in light suit); Stan ?, Supervisor Ashford Freight Gang; Ron Box, SED Freight & Terminals Officer (note his umbrella hanging on wagon); the three men on far left are probably the other members of the Ashford Freight Gang.

 

Another great picture- thanks.

 

Mazda 323 at the top front. It looks like the Autic is loaded with a mix of Mazda 323's and Polish FIAT 125p's. Looks like someone (maybe MCD) just gave them the first few cars of the nearest pound, to play with.

 

What I do recall is that the majority of makes we dealt with in the following two years at Queenborough, on a regular basis by train, were GM vehicles made in Belgium (and branded as Vauxhalls) plus Toyotas, both cars and vans.

 

An intriguing photo of key SR freight people too. Apart from Terry, I never met one of them, either at Beckenham, or at Queenborough, in my two years or so dealing with this very intensive traffic. We also had Shipbreakers, Ridham Dock, Sheerness Steel and sometimes Dockyard, and Ridham and Sittingbourne Bowaters to deal with, as well as the trials at Chatham Dockyard.  All that was on top of our other duties for operational safety and performance, station operations and safety, staffing, signal boxes, carriage cleaning (at Gillingham), internal control, rostering, staff matters, emergency response, out-of-hours on-call, and so on. Our Area Manager (John Mummery) may have met them, but he wasn't that much interested in freight, just in saving money. Those of us doing the job, or supervising those who did, just had to train ourselves and guess what we were expected to do next. The separation between those on the ground and those in special sections or head offices was never as great as it was then. Things improved radically, in that sense, post-privatisation.

[108]

I'm afraid my knowledge of car type / makes is somewhat lacking despite having observed the loading and unloading of several thousand in rail terminals over the years, so many thanks to '108' and 'keefer' for pointing out my error. I had wrongly assumed that as the first vehicle loaded (top deck leading) had a Mazda badge they would all be the same, however closer inspection of the leading vehicle on the lower deck shows a Polski badge and most if not all of the other vehicles loaded appear to be similar. Sorry to deviate from the original topic but I had not realised that Polish built Fiats had been loaded at Queenborough, perhaps those with more knowledge of car types can identify the remainder of the load in the photo below.

 

COPY 1981.xx.xx 004PUB Queenborough Pier Sdg - RLS 92028 Railease PKA Autic wagon during trial loading of cars - RM Web.jpg

Another view of the trial loading on the Pier Sdg at Queenborough, thought to have been taken in 1981, and showing the empty Railease Carflat positioned between the Autic and loading ramp. The assembled staff indicate the importance of the occasion, with from right to left - Terry Knight, SR Regional Loads Inspector (adjusting a scotch); Basil Wilson, SED Terminals & Cartage Inspector; Unknown (in light suit); Stan ?, Supervisor Ashford Freight Gang; Ron Box, SED Freight & Terminals Officer (note his umbrella hanging on wagon); the three men on far left are probably the other members of the Ashford Freight Gang.

First car on top and the second on the lower deck look like Mazda 323’s. Is the third one on the top deck a Mark 4 Cortina? The rest seem to be Polska Fiats.

 

I should have recognized the 125P badge in the first photo.

Edited January 19, 2019 by 108

[Invicta]

First car on top and the second on the lower deck look like Mazda 323’s. Is the third one on the top deck a Mark 4 Cortina? The rest seem to be Polska Fiats.

 

I should have recognized the 125P badge in the first photo.

 

Third car on the top deck looks like another 323- IIRC they did come in both hatchback and 4-door saloon flavours. Next in line seems to be another 323, then one more at the back after a Polski-Fiat. Second car on the lower deck looks more like a Polonez?

Edited January 19, 2019 by Invicta