Is Pre-Ordering Really Necessary?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Nowadays I don't usually pre-order until a model has got to at least some kind of sample, even a 3-D printed version, to get a decent idea of what it is going to be like. 

 

You can always use my tongue-in-cheek flow chart to help your decision. Most of my stuff nowadays has come from the middle course. Recently picked up an ROD and four Blood & Custard Colletts for under £140

 

[EL-3A]

Pity Rails didn't have enough stock to fulfil orders after the SECR box van was advertised in the magazines.  I shan't purchase anything from them again.

[EL-3A]

Unfortunately your flow chart wouldn't have worked for the Rails SECR Box Van.  My understanding is they were sold out before the magazine ads appeared.

[Andy Hayter]

If you are suggesting that pre-ordering does not work, then I fear your logic is flawed.

 

This is a prime example of the need to pre-order and those that hesitated had no chance - even at the pre-order stage.

[ROSSPOP]

i`m a kit builder only.......... I know my place.........   

[royaloak]

39 minutes ago, EL-3A said:

Pity Rails didn't have enough stock to fulfil orders after the SECR box van was advertised in the magazines.  I shan't purchase anything from them again.

Hardly Rails fault if the thing sold out very quickly to pre-orders is it!

 

About the only positive is they might decide to do a re-run sooner rather than later.

Edited August 7, 2019 by royaloak

[Mick Bonwick]

What is the difference between an order and a pre-order? I'm sure that when I was younger (!) we only ever had to order things and never needed to do anything before that. Doesn't the prefix 'pre' mean before?

[Craigw]

41 minutes ago, EL-3A said:

Pity Rails didn't have enough stock to fulfil orders after the SECR box van was advertised in the magazines.  I shan't purchase anything from them again.

 

That will show them!

 

Craig W

[royaloak]

1 minute ago, Mick Bonwick said:

What is the difference between an order and a pre-order? I'm sure that when I was younger (!) we only ever had to order things and never needed to do anything before that. Doesn't the prefix 'pre' mean before?

A pre-order is just an order, but in a world which expects things to be delivered yesterday pre-order is used to differentiate something which will be delivered in the future from something we expect immediately.

[Keith J]

On ‎13‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 14:23, ROSSPOP said:

Not sure if anybody has mentioned pre-ordering O Gauge.

 

I`ve surprised myself and become a great fan of Dapols 7mm products. I did have their 48/14XX loco on pre-order with Rails of... but have cancelled as it is a new product

and will now wait until it has been reviewed in the modelling press.

 

Otherwise I might end up with a dodgy engineered chassis ( now where did I get that possiblity from !!! )

 

For me thats a potential problem of pre-ordering stuff not seen.....

 

John

On the subject of O Gauge Hattons have sold out of a couple of variants of the Dapol 121 Bubble Car on pre orders alone so if you wait for a review in the modelling press you could well have left it too late. 

[Clive Mortimore]

14 minutes ago, Keith J said:

On the subject of O Gauge Hattons have sold out of a couple of variants of the Dapol 121 Bubble Car on pre orders alone so if you wait for a review in the modelling press you could well have left it too late. 

So.....they are toy trains not essential life purchases. 

[Steamport Southport]

8 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

So.....they are toy trains not essential life purchases. 

 

Some people think toy trains is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.

 

 

 

 

Apologies to Bill Shankly.

 

 

 

Jason
 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[Keith J]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Some people think toy trains is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.

 

 

 

Jason
 

Exactly, how can one possibly live without toy trains.

[JohnDMJ]

7 hours ago, EL-3A said:

Pity Rails didn't have enough stock to fulfil orders after the SECR box van was advertised in the magazines.  I shan't purchase anything from them again.

 

Rails, no doubt, purchased all that they could.

 

Manufacturers no longer hold large stocks and only make what they can sell to at least break even.

 

A model is announced; pre-orders are taken. If the model proves popular and more than breaks even, it is put into production to fulfil the number of pre-orders. When the model becomes 'pre-sold out', then tough, you're looking to eBay etc.

 

Rocket Science, it ain't.

 

No demand, no production.

 

Seemples!

[Bernard Lamb]

8 hours ago, EL-3A said:

Pity Rails didn't have enough stock to fulfil orders after the SECR box van was advertised in the magazines.  I shan't purchase anything from them again.

Why is it a pity?

I would call it an out and out success.

They have proved that there is a demand for small runs of unusual prototypes, at a premium price, that the big players will almost certainly never produce.

Having dipped their toes in the water I am sure that they are already looking at a short list for the next offering.

They seem to be quite an astute company so I presume that they have calculated the price per model and size of the production run to give them a healthy margin.

Exciting times ahead.

Something from the other side of the Thames and a bit to the east would go down well with me.

Bernard

[phil-b259]

On 07/08/2019 at 12:15, Mick Bonwick said:

What is the difference between an order and a pre-order? I'm sure that when I was younger (!) we only ever had to order things and never needed to do anything before that. Doesn't the prefix 'pre' mean before?

 

Nothing in transaction terms but its a useful way of separating orders where the item(s) are in stock and can be dispatched straight away at an agreed price from what amounts to the 'reservation of a future model that will not be on the shelves for months (if not years).

 

A 'pre order may be likened to a Premier inn’ fully fixable hotel booking made 6 months in advance - doing so ensures you will be able to get a room where as if you wait till the day before you travel the they may not be any rooms left!

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by phil-b259

[Nearholmer]

“ I wonder if there is any real need to order in advance.”

 

Sometimes, for some things.

 

The trick is to work out which things, and when.

 

Bon chance!

[jonny777]

On a slight tangent, one coaching stock problem I can never understand is why open and corridor seconds are never produced in greater quantity than other variations, especially open or corridor firsts. 

 

Even the most uninterested person must realise that first class accommodation is less prolific in most trains, than second.  And yet, a few weeks after the release of a run of coaches, there seem to be large numbers of CKs, BCKs, FKs, BFKs, etc., still in stock at retailers, and no SKs or BSKs (or all the open variants). 

 

Are production runs so tightly controlled that they can't produce five times the number of one coach, compared to all the others? 

 

Am I missing something, just unlucky with my choices; or are manufacturers completely lacking in common sense?

[melmoth]

10 hours ago, Mick Bonwick said:

What is the difference between an order and a pre-order? I'm sure that when I was younger (!) we only ever had to order things and never needed to do anything before that. Doesn't the prefix 'pre' mean before?

 

It's the same as "pre-heating" an oven, and equally superfluous.

[Philou]

Mmmmm ..... not sure that is quite right. Pre-heating an oven means the oven is at the right temperature to cook whatever (pizza say) in a short time and ensures the crust is nice'n'crunchy without the topping being over-cooked, whereas putting your pizza in a cold oven and then heating to the right temperature will mean by the time the crust is cooked the rest will have been burnt to a crisp. Result? Missed supper - again! Bit like missing out on a model ...........

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[RJS1977]

3 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Why is it a pity?

I would call it an out and out success.

They have proved that there is a demand for small runs of unusual prototypes, at a premium price, that the big players will almost certainly never produce.

Having dipped their toes in the water I am sure that they are already looking at a short list for the next offering.

They seem to be quite an astute company so I presume that they have calculated the price per model and size of the production run to give them a healthy margin.

Exciting times ahead.

Something from the other side of the Thames and a bit to the east would go down well with me.

Bernard

 

From the manufacturer's/retailer's point of view, no it might not be a pity (although of course they can still wonder how many more they would have sold if they'd done a longer production run).

 

From the point of view of the purchasers who missed out, it is of course a pity.

[melmoth]

 

21 minutes ago, Philou said:

Mmmmm ..... not sure that is quite right. Pre-heating an oven means the oven is at the right temperature to cook whatever (pizza say) in a short time and ensures the crust is nice'n'crunchy without the topping being over-cooked, whereas putting your pizza in a cold oven and then heating to the right temperature will mean by the time the crust is cooked the rest will have been burnt to a crisp. Result? Missed supper - again! Bit like missing out on a model ...........

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Yeah, but you're simply heating the oven to a given temperature and then using it. The "pre" bit isn't necessary as part of the instructions because they tend to say something like "preheat the oven to xxx, and then place pizza...", when simply saying "heat the oven to xxx, and then place pizza..." conveys exactly the same instruction.

[adb968008]

Hi I used to pre-order everything, at one point I had a good 4 figure sum on pre-order, with £1000 of it prepaid.

what changed me was..

 

1. Restrictions on discounts upon release leading to..

2. I got shafted as discount after discount rolled out within a few weeks of release

3. I found quality took a knock on several models, which weren't as good as they should be.

4. Price rises generally, means less stuff sells out, so theres no need to preorder

5. Duplication of existing tooling, it might sound sexy, but often the old one isn't that bad.

6. Some characters in the hobby are a bit discouraging and created a negative experience.

 

Now Ive run down the preorders, to a pretty low figure, and make a decision on release.

What Ive found is i’m spending much less than the last few years..

 

ive moved from a Bull to a bear market when it cones to spending on the hobby.

 

i’m not buying everything because its cheap instead i’m evaluating more, and finding its easier to say no.

Indeed ive actually migrated interest and spent more time “out on the stations” this year, theres quite definitely more change occurring to rolling stock on the network than on the shelves in the first part of this year.

 

The big discount culture seems to have subsided in HY1 2019, but it feels like materially less “new release” product  has actually hit the shelves this year.  What happens in HY2 2019, when bonfire night passes, and all Chinas production hits the pre-Christmas shelves is another thing.. if theres a big glut of releases, all with restricted discounting, that could lead to some cash flow issues for some businesses if the economy isn't right.

 

That prospect on its own has been my sanity check on a rather subdued year of purchases for me. Even some very credible businesses i’m only extending my pre-paid “credit” to them  to a low risk amount. 

 

To summize, I don't feel I need to pre-order, and think it risky to pre-pay in 2019. Theres a good chance the market might rebalance later this year / early next.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by adb968008

[Guest JiLo]

I dont think I've ever pre-ordered anything, but I used to buy loads of stuff when it was discounted.  I've reigned in that side of things, focussed on what I'm actually modelling and cleared the decks of the stuff I dont need.

 

The result is that although I'm buying less, in the long-term I'll have spent more, as I buy what I need when I see it/when its released.

 

Fortunately nothing of what I've needed to buy has sold out quickly, and I dont feel hard done by when it gets discounted.  If i miss out in future, not to worry, itll appear on eBay at some point!

 

 

NEED being a subjective term, need for my layout, not for day to day life!

[Mick Bonwick]

I prefer to buy once things are in stock, presenting cash to the retailer. Seeing something in the flesh is a prerequisite for this buyer's satisfaction. It has prevented disappointment on several previous occasions.