The Bachmann Panniers

[melmerby]

I really can't accept this - if you have the time and skills to build small electronic equipment, you can modify plastic loco bodies. Be honest, such work simply doesn't interest you, does it?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Actually I have two spare 57XX bodies which I intend having a go at, a Mainline one & a Bachmann one but I keep putting them off as I have too much other stuff on the go which will bring results quicker.

Just now I am working through a Comet 43XX chassis kit (difficult)  and a pair of M&L GWR 0-6-0T tank kits (easier), as well as trying to finish the layout itself (and play time sometimes!)

 

Don't mention the spray system (compressor and three airbrushes) which I have had three years and not yet used.

Time is the enemy.

 

Keith

Edited January 12, 2019 by melmerby

[PMP]

^^ re the Mainline body, just be aware the age of the plastic may make it more brittle and may not cut as easily as a later body. If you do the mainline body take the time to reshape the top of the dome too, that makes a big difference. The split chassis body has different body fixings to the solid body mounts, so they’re dot a simple exchange.

[melmerby]

^^ re the Mainline body, just be aware the age of the plastic may make it more brittle and may not cut as easily as a later body. If you do the mainline body take the time to reshape the top of the dome too, that makes a big difference. The split chassis body has different body fixings to the solid body mounts, so they’re dot a simple exchange.

I've already got a Bachmann chassis in a Mainline body (unaltered apart from fixings.)

At first I fitted a Comet chassis to replace the (literally) crumbling old but unused Mainline chassis but I moved that to an 1854 saddle tank and used the Bachmann one instead.

So I do do a bit of "modelling" but carving plastic bodies, not yet.

 

Keith

[kandc_au]

 

 

For removing detail adjacent to other detail, a miniature screwdriver sharpened to a chisel blade is excellent - or you can invest in http://modelshop.co.uk/Shop/Item/Chisel-precision/ITM7404 ; I can vouch for the latter as being indispensible.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Thanks for this. Perfect timing as I recently broke my 1mm Blade !

Didn't know these were available.

 

Khris

[EWS60065]

I belive Bachmann are doing the 57xx and 8750 at the moment, in some new liveries and some old ones. Check website, pre order only at the moment. 

I have both 57xx and 8750 examples and they both run well at slow speeds, and are very smooth considering the fairly short wheel base. Both models are with new chassis, 8750 was bought new for £59, 57xx second hand for £55.

I'm looking for a new chassis for an old mainline pannier that the split chassis failed on, but can't find any anywhere. 

[BWsTrains]

On 10/01/2019 at 23:24, PAL said:

Thanks to further contributors. Not being a close follower of the ads, I didn't realise that only the 64xx is available at the moment. Can I assume that if I wait long enough, the 57xx and the 87xx will reappear?

 

I found members' observations on shunting speed very interesting and - tho it's slightly off-topic -  would like to hear more. It's beyond me but someone somewhere must have worked out  prototypical shunting speeds scaled down to the various gauges. I have Kadees and my rule-of-thumb speed is one that will work the couplings!

 

Further thoughts on the relative performances of the three Bachmann Panniers still most welcome.

Go here:

 

https://www.modelraildatabase.com/

 

look under "Great western Railway" then Class

 

You'll find model releases for 57xx, 8750 and 64xx Classes listed back into the last Century. These regularly pop up in the 2nd hand market and 3 of my own 4 came that way. All have been excellent runners but I was careful to buy things under 10yrs age. Sorry its a bit late.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 10 January 2019 at 08:28, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The 57/87xx mechanism has a sprung centre axle, a considerable aid to pick up reliabiity...

 

Is this the same with all 57xx?

 

I think I have a 64xx, which runs okay but if changing to a 57xx means better reliability for only a few pounds difference, I might look at that.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 minute ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Is this* the same with all 57xx?   *sprung centre axle

On all the production that I have seen since the split chassis mechanism was superseded. Not read anywhere that this feature has subsequently been removed, (but my last purchase was for a whitemetal kit repower about 2012).

 

The strange aspect of this feature is that owner adjustment is usually required to exploit it fully. The keeper plate often  constrains the spring action into near immobility. Filing 0.5mm deep cut outs in the keeper plate sides under the centre axle assists in providing a little more downward travel. If there is no upward travel, remove sprung plunger and clean out all grease, and reassess. Sometimes very slightly deepening the locating hole is required. Very light greasing is all that is required. Stretch the spring a little for more positive action, and bend the wipers outwards for positive contact with the wheelbacks. Run it both directions for at least an hour to get all the pick-up contacts well polished. With at least two tyres each side now in contact with the rail at all times it should never be 'off power'.

[EWS60065]

Bachmann are actually doing the 57xx and 87xx at the moment for pre order. 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product-category/Bachmann-branchline/locomotives/?product-page=2

Look at the bottom of this page and the top of the next. 

[PAL]

GWR & BWs:

 

Thanks so much for your posts on availability. BWs ; thanks particularly for the steer to the Model Rail database - I had no idea it existed.

[Jeff Smith]

Bachmann seems to periodically offer different running numbers of 57xx Panniers in red LT livery, which they did recently.  This is fine but they do lack the LT  modified cab roof and Trip Cocks.  Easy enough to make the changes.  I modified a 57xx some years ago with drop-in P4 wheels from Ultrascale.  It retained the centre sprung axle arrangement and runs well.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Jeff Smith

[DCB]

On 10/01/2019 at 12:24, PAL said:

Thanks to further contributors. Not being a close follower of the ads, I didn't realise that only the 64xx is available at the moment. Can I assume that if I wait long enough, the 57xx and the 87xx will reappear?

 

I found members' observations on shunting speed very interesting and - tho it's slightly off-topic -  would like to hear more. It's beyond me but someone somewhere must have worked out  prototypical shunting speeds scaled down to the various gauges. I have Kadees and my rule-of-thumb speed is one that will work the couplings!

 

Further thoughts on the relative performances of the three Bachmann Panniers still most welcome.

 

With conventional coupling rod equipped locos such as Panniers, 08s and 03s there is no need to scale speed at all, the speed of rotation of the wheels is a constant.  about 6mph is not a bad speed and that for a 57/64XX Pannier that is about 36rpm.  that's 3 revolutions in 5 seconds.

Exhibition style creeping is about 1/6th of that or 1mph a speed most locos would simply stop at.  My Hornby Dublo ring field powered GWR 42XX with Romford 60:1 gears would run much slower than that about a scale 0.2MPH which was basically pretty silly, but the sound and fury of the beast flat out at a scale 30 or so on a goods was something to behold. Sadly it tore its rods off and lies forgotten on my work bench.

 

It's well worth watching locos shunting on preserved railways.  Steam locos accelerate rapidly for the first few revolutions of the wheels,  GW ones in particular develop a lot of torque from a standstill quite unlike motor vehicles which are slow to get going.  When running light even Diesel locomotives take their time to get going compared to steam, the motor takes time to accelerate, whereas the steam loco tends to need a long cut off and a fair bit of regulator to overcome inertia and then tends to leap away before the driver can slam the regulator shut at which point the loco will generally coast for quite a long way before needing any more steam. Flywheel equipped locos like a K's 57XX always seem to start more realistically than non flywheel equipped locos.   Observation is the key.

Edited May 6, 2019 by DavidCBroad

[Jeff Smith]

That's because piston type steam engines can produce maximum torque (via the con-rods) at zero rpm due to the inlet steam pressure.  Whereas a piston type combustion engine needs to build up speed and flywheel inertia.

[The Johnster]

AFAIK all current Bachmann 57/8750 chassis have the sprung centre axle, Sir TophamHatt, and those that I have acquired from 'Bay do as well.  I have 2 'Bay sourced ones, but will not buy secondhand unless the loco has NEM couplers, an indication of relative modernity...  Be careful of trying to replace your 64xx chassis with a 57xx one, as this is a little longer and a different shape, so you may have trouble fitting it to the 64xx body.   

 

GWR5764, separate chassis are like rocking horse doodoo on 'Bay, and overpriced when they do crop up.  Mostly you have to buy donor locos complete.  I also have a Mainline body still running with a replacement modern chassis, and the other has been used under a Lima 94xx body.  The bodies have been stripped of stuff like buffers, firing iron hooks and tank filler caps, before being given the opportunity of an exciting new career in the landfill industry, and the donor chassis have cab backhead detail.

 

All of my Bachmann 57xx/8750 chassis run very well indeed at low speed, and start and stop smoothly.  They are close to as good as anyone has a reasonable right to expect from RTR volume production.  My 64xx is not quite up to this standard, but very good nonetheless.  It 'feels' stiffer and will not start absolutely smoothly.  

 

 

 

[BWsTrains]

9 hours ago, PAL said:

GWR & BWs:

 

Thanks so much for your posts on availability. BWs ; thanks particularly for the steer to the Model Rail database - I had no idea it existed.

My pleasure,  The DB is rarely mentioned but valuable resource.

 

It's worth noting that in both the 57xx / 8750 Classes, leaving aside the various issues of prototypical accuracy, Bachmann releases span eras 3 to 5 as well as the 3 naming variants during Era 3. Hence chances of getting exactly what you want any time soon are very low. 2019, it appears British Railways Black and LT are the offerings.

 

For the much smaller 64xx class there is nothing on the Bachmann site, last release 2016 so maybe in 2020?

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

A 2 or 4 cylinder steam locomotive (forget Lord Nelsons for the moment) emits 4 chuffs from the chimney per revolution of the driving wheels, a very easy way of audibly monitoring it's speed especially if it is working hard and accelerating.  As Mr Broad says, observation is the key and those of us who remember steam in everyday use have an advantage, but I freely admit to making chuffchuff noises (not having DCC) when I am operating to assess how fast my locos are going.  I am aided further in this by the GW crosshead driven vacuum pump which delivers 2 'pstff' noises per revolution when the loco is coasting or slowing down.   Non-GW modellers need to factor in that 3 cylinder locos give out 6 chuffs per revolution (CPR).

 

A passenger train starting from a platform accelerates steadily, in a relatively slow and stately fashion if it is a heavy express because the loco has large driving wheels, and it adds to the sense of drama and occasion, and rather faster if it is a local especially if it's hauled by a 56xx which could generate perceptible g forces in the train, accelerating to about 30mph within the length of 4 or 5 coaches.  Loose coupled goods and mineral trains are taken up much more gently to avoid breaking couplings and guards in vans.  Shunting happens at different speeds according to the situation; speed in yards is limited to an overall 15mph (5 for loco sheds where movements are not controlled by staff on the ground, but often exceeded) and 15mph would be about the norm in a sorting or marshalling yard where wagons are knocked about with some enthusiasm.  Mr Broad's 6mph is a pretty good compromise for most model situations, though.  

 

The pickup, shunting a local goods yard or private siding (the more usual case on a model), takes matters a bit more easily as there is only the guard on the ground and he has to uncouple, couple, apply brakes, operate points, all by himself (the fireman may assist when the loco needs to be coupled or uncoupled) so there is no point in going any faster than he can walk between the places he needs to be.  A move into a goods shed or loading platform where men may be working in vans or opens is done with extreme caution at an exhibition show-off crawl, especially if sightlines from the loco are compromised as they usually are in this situation.   

 

Locos designed specifically for shunting have steam reversers to speed things up, otherwise a pause must take place every time the loco changes direction for the driver to operate the reversing lever or screw.  The idea is to finish the job as quickly as possible because everybody wants to go home, but you don't want to kill or injure anyone in the process, because then nobody gets to go home on time, so a sensible balance, more haste less speed, results.  

 

What this means in practical terms from a model driving perspective is that, while our locos seldom need to crawl realistically, they do sometimes and in any case need to be able to in order to start and stop smoothly.  So, the better the slow running performance, the more realistically it can be driven to simulate the situations described above.  None of my panniers has flywheels, but one can develop a 'feel' on the controller (Gaugemaster HH in my case) for each one and develop a technique that gives pretty good results with a bit of practice.  My only flywheel fitted loco is a Hornby 42xx, which plods just like a real 42xx and is a lovely thing to drive with a heavy coal train; it can be made to slip with poor handling so getting the train away properly is particularly satisfying.  The same train with a Bachmann chassis-ed Lima 94xx slips like a pacific trying to get away from King's X on a greasy rail, but gets 'em away eventually, all part of the fun!  Somewhere in between are the 56xx, which need their own technique and slip a little.  I could lighten the load with foam fillers in the wagons, but I rather like this game!