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CloggyDog

Nové Město na Nedostatku

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Following the successful use of an Ikea Lack floating shelf as the baseboard on my OO Reading Signal Works micro inglenook, my thoughts turned to the 2nd Lack I had skulking around, combined with the small but growing collection of Czech TT stock I started following an enjoyable long weekend involving an incident-filled rail tour and plenty of good beer back in October 2017.

 

A spot of research on station layouts via googlemaps and a couple of Czech railway modelling forums gave me some good pointers and a rough plan was drafted, based upon the Ikea LACK 110cm x 26cm shelf.

 

 

28206163507_990c11b565_k.jpgDSC_0115_1 by Alan Monk, on Flickr

 

 

 

I wanted to include 2 loops off the main, plus 2 freight sidings at least and after a bit of tweaking and refining, I've come up with a layout that ticks those boxes and is (loosely) based on Nové Město pod Smrkem, along the branch between Frýdlant v Čechách and Jindřichovice pod Smrkem (up near the Czech/Polish border), with some compression to fit the board and slanted diagonally to maximise loop length.

 

45774657575_1fb687246f_k.jpgNew Czech TT layout rough by Alan Monk, on Flickr

 

I'd picked up the Kühn TT starter track set for a song, which gave me about half the points I needed, the rest came via a good German webshop. In use, there'll be a fiddlestick off the top right end. Viewing side is the lower edge and, as with RSW, I'll retain the Lack's mounting system so I can wall-mount the bracket to store the layout out of harm's way.

 

Next stage is to lay the 2mm eva foam sheets I use as a track base, sort the wire-in-tube channels for changing the points, fix the track down and add the 5mm ply backscene, end boards, facia and lighting support, then scenic. The station is a stand-in, and will likely be replaced with a suitable laser cut kit, plus a goods shed to the right, loading ramp for the left siding, a low platform between roads 2 and 3 and some trees screening a factory building at the left rear.

 

42356754864_0880ffc0eb_k.jpgDSC_0064_1 by Alan Monk, on Flickr

 

 

Stock-wise, a Tillig 742 Bo-Bo, a brace of the lovely LPH plastic kit 810/010 4-wheel railcars and trailers and a dozen or so assorted opens, vans and flats, all from the excellent plastic or resin kits by the likes of SDV Model and ES-Pecky. One of the 810s is motorised using the very neat motorising kit from ALSRacing.

A 749 'Grumpy' will joint in due course, either I'll motorise the resin shell I have or just bite the bullet and buy an RTR one.

 

At the moment, I'm content to use DC/analogue, most likely using my diy battery handheld, though the lure of unsilenced Grumpy thrash may change that in the future :locomotive:

43075769721_7f79555b69_k.jpgDSC_0074_2 by Alan Monk, on Flickr

 

The name... roughly translated it's New City on Lack :blum:

Edited by CloggyDog
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I was on that tour - we spent a very long time at 'New City on Lack' with only free beer and German Sausage hot dogs to survive on!

 

Looks a good project - will be watching..

 

 

post-469-0-39324800-1547225879_thumb.jpg

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Yes I remember that tour but luckily we stayed in Liberec on the Sunday morning as wanted a lay in having already done the branch the train got stuck on.

 

Look forward to your layout progress.

 

Ian

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It seems we were all on it! It certainly gave me an appreciation for how the guys on Apollo 13 felt. Still, good fun!

 

post-6716-0-44977200-1547229406_thumb.jpeg

 

Watching with interest and a mild desire to buy some of those TT wagon kits.

 

Pix

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It's great to see a TT gauge micro, not to mention with the Czech prototype! One language note -- the current form of the name is in "Google translate" Czech, the correct form is "Nové Město na Nedostatku" :)

 

I like the way you were able to squeeze in enough tracks to make operations more interesting. I made a branch line terminus micro in TT (100x20 cm) last year and my layout is much more simple and not that interesting operationally. Actually, since you mention there will be some factory in the top left corner, it could actually be quite easy to expand your layout even more by adding a sidding leading inside the factory. That would make operations even more interesting as the freight train could bring cars for loading/unloading not only to the goods shed and ramp, but also to the factory.

 

Anyway, if you need any help with Czech locale information (signals, signs, equipment details etc.) just let me know :)

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Any Czech modelling is welcome here as is the use of Swedish furniture.

 

 

Rob.

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It's great to see a TT gauge micro, not to mention with the Czech prototype! One language note -- the current form of the name is in "Google translate" Czech, the correct form is "Nové Město na Nedostatku" :)

 

Duly noted with thanks and name corrected.

 

Following a thread elsewhere about tracks parallel to board edges, I've experimented with skewing the whole plan slightly.

 

post-318-0-82505000-1548026243_thumb.jpg

 

No change to loop or siding lengths, and it would allow me to model the loading ramp (left hand siding) in full.

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It is great to talk about TT scale and continental modelling . What I would like to know is there a society somewhere perhaps across the channel for us TT (2.5mm ) modellers ? Rather like the British 3mm society.

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It seems we were all on it! It certainly gave me an appreciation for how the guys on Apollo 13 felt. Still, good fun!

 

attachicon.gif9D119783-1080-4FDF-AD54-7697F05771CB.jpeg

 

Watching with interest and a mild desire to buy some of those TT wagon kits.

 

Pix

 

We spotted a model railway open day signs in Liberec station . Turns out the local club has rooms in Liberec loco depot. A largish HO scale layout with some narrow gauge. A couple of traders (one being the model shop in the forecourt side of the station building so did buy a few items in TT scale. We then spent a good part of the day in the station bar and one we know in town before deciding to catch a road coach back to Prague. Luckily we were flying home the next day so time for more Czech beer.

 

There used to be a UK based Czech and Slovak club that had a section on models but that folded some years ago.

 

Our TT layout will be at the ST Neots (East Anglian show) show in the summer which is now being held in Kettering.

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Hi,

I’ve had a large collection of modern DB TT hence my name in storage for 4 years while bringing up a new baby with little time , however dusted of the boxes the other day with a idea of starting my baseboards this year, my favourite loco is my Beckmann BR120 that I will use with IC liveried push-pull set, I was tempted to operate a CD train as well as some nice excellent stock available and I really like the new rail car by MTB in the two tone blue.post-24405-0-36646500-1548079620_thumb.jpegpost-24405-0-22122100-1548079661_thumb.jpeg

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Following a thread elsewhere about tracks parallel to board edges, I've experimented with skewing the whole plan slightly.

 

I like it! One more idea -- I would consider cutting the short pieces of track inserted between the turnouts in the middle and using the halves between all the turnouts. That would make the spacing between tracks even and more prototypical. It would make the usable portion of the outermost track bit shorter but on the other hand extend the usable part of the first and second track.

 

Will the station be a terminus or pass through?

 

post-6963-0-96855700-1548096457.jpg

Edited by JBr
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I have always liked the idea of 1:120 modelling. But I am disappointed with the pointwork available from any manufacturers that I have found (wide angles/tight radii).

 

Any suggestions for producers that I may have missed?

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I have always liked the idea of 1:120 modelling. But I am disappointed with the pointwork available from any manufacturers that I have found (wide angles/tight radii).

 

Any suggestions for producers that I may have missed?

 

for 1:120, you basically have the choice of Tillig (code 80 rail) or Kühn (Code 60 rail) in ready to lay. I'm discounting the older, eastern Bloc manufacturers of yore.

 

I've gone with Kühn (as I found their TT startset on ebay for well under half-list price, but the self-imposed restriction on board length forced me to use the short points (20o). They do now include a longer point (l/h and r/h, 10o) in the range, albeit their website has yet to catch up to the fact but they are available in the shops!. They do have curved points, but no crossings or slips at the present time.

 

I like them; they work well and look suitably fine in appearance. The points I have are essentially electrofrog, with wiring tags built in for polarity switching and an over-sprung tiebar (like Peco). The track in the pics of the layout is all Kühn set-track components, but the loops and longest siding will use their flexi track once I get to the tracklaying stage.

 

 

Tillig's is a more comprehensive range of points and crossings, with slips, scissors and tandems, etc., although they do look chunkier and I've also heard various reports of fragility and unreliability.

 

 

Finally, If you have the funds, there's also the beautiful ttfiligran range of scale length (or 2/3 scale length for the space starved!) points to German or (separately) Czech practice. Available in kit or RTR form, including NG versions. Damn nice, but with a hefty price tag.

Edited by CloggyDog
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I like it! One more idea -- I would consider cutting the short pieces of track inserted between the turnouts in the middle and using the halves between all the turnouts. That would make the spacing between tracks even and more prototypical. It would make the usable portion of the outermost track bit shorter but on the other hand extend the usable part of the first and second track.

 

Will the station be a terminus or pass through?

 

attachicon.gifnovemesto.jpg

 

Thanks again JBr, I agree that would improve the appearance and prototypicalness, so will be making those adjustments when I come to lay the track in the coming few weeks, now that my brass tube has arrive and I've everything I need to crack on.

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for 1:120, you basically have the choice of Tillig (code 80 rail) or Kühn (Code 60 rail) in ready to lay. I'm discounting the older, eastern Bloc manufacturers of yore.

 

I've gone with Kühn (as I found their TT startset on ebay for well under half-list price, but the self-imposed restriction on board length forced me to use the short points (20o). They do now include a longer point (l/h and r/h, 10o) in the range, albeit their website has yet to catch up to the fact but they are available in the shops!. They do have curved points, but no crossings or slips at the present time.

 

I like them; they work well and look suitably fine in appearance. The points I have are essentially electrofrog, with wiring tags built in for polarity switching and an over-sprung tiebar (like Peco). The track in the pics of the layout is all Kühn set-track components, but the loops and longest siding will use their flexi track once I get to the tracklaying stage.

 

 

Tillig's is a more comprehensive range of points and crossings, with slips, scissors and tandems, etc., although they do look chunkier and I've also heard various reports of fragility and unreliability.

 

 

Finally, If you have the funds, there's also the beautiful ttfiligran range of scale length (or 2/3 scale length for the space starved!) points to German or (separately) Czech practice. Available in kit or RTR form, including NG versions. Damn nice, but with a hefty price tag.

Many thanks.

 

I had not seen the 10 degree Kuhn points and completely unaware of ttfiligran. Some amazing stuff on their website. Some of it eye-watering expensive but a standard B6 turnout at €26 is pretty good (comparable with Peco). Edit: Just realised that €26 is for the kit.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell

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I made a branch line terminus micro in TT (100x20 cm) last year and my layout is much more simple and not that interesting operationally.

 

Aha! Just twigged your layout is the lovely wee one in the ukulele box, over in the boxfiles area. It pretty much inspired me to get this one of mine started, so thank you!

 

 

I'm starting to think of signals and the like and sourcing models thereof - I'm guessing that such a branch terminus wouldn't have much in the way of 'proper' signalling, perhaps only point indicators?? Derailers on the 2 sidings, maybe? The diagonal blue 'end of line' indicators - would these be mounted on bufferstops, where present?

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You will be surprised just how many signals can be at a branchline terminus. Dobris has one train every two hours plus a daily freight but just look at all the signals.

 

The multi aspects are also for showing line speed but cant recall how they work.

post-1557-0-87463300-1548420413_thumb.jpg

 

Also some shunt signals towards the bufferstops. These have a blue light when red is not lit

post-1557-0-83800300-1548420514_thumb.jpg

 

Not all termini have this many so you wont require so many for yours.

 

Some blue stop board locations

post-1557-0-89537900-1548420579_thumb.jpg

post-1557-0-57241000-1548420599_thumb.jpg

post-1557-0-46129200-1548420617_thumb.jpg

Edited by roundhouse
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Many thanks.

 

I had not seen the 10 degree Kuhn points and completely unaware of ttfiligran. Some amazing stuff on their website. Some of it eye-watering expensive but a standard B6 turnout at €26 is pretty good (comparable with Peco). Edit: Just realised that €26 is for the kit.

 

Hi Joseph,

 

There are also Tillig 12mm gauge points in kit form as another (cheaper) option;

 

post-20196-0-37994800-1548436798_thumb.jpg

 

I'm concentrating on the H0 section of my layout at the moment so it's probably going to be a while before I get around to having a go at assembling these.

 

Cheers,

Peter.

Edited by TT-Pete

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Also some shunt signals towards the bufferstops. These have a blue light when red is not lit

 

 

Actually, those are not shunting signals in the picture but regular signals. You can tell that from the colors of the signal shield (that thin rectangular piece of metal with two white and two red bars). Shunting signals have the white/blue combination of bars and they only consist of white and blue light. Blue = shunting not allowed, white (steady) = shunting allowed.

 

Regular signals have the shield with a white/red combination and consist of various combinations of white, yellow, green and red. There may be two yellow lights in one signal, but all the other colors can only have one light in the signal. Some colors may not be present, depending on what aspects the particular signal is supposed to show.

 

Length of bars on the signal shields of the regular signals determine their "level of control". If the white and red bars are of the same length, the signal is only valid for the trains that arrive, depart or pass through the station. They are not concerned during shunting operations. White light in such signal is only used for a special aspect allowing the train to pass by the signal and proceed with caution (blinking white light or a combination of a steady red light and blinking white light).

 

If the red bars are about three or four times the length of the white ones, it means that the particular signal is valid not only for the "riding" trains but also for shunting operations. In such case the white light can have two meanings. If blinking, it is the same aspect as above. If steady, it means "shunting allowed". Red light on such signal means stop both for riding and shunting trains.

 

The signals in the mentioned picture from Dobříš are of the first type and while they have two light positions, only one is actually fitted with a bulb and a lens -- the red one. The meaning of those signals is simply to stop incomming trains as the station is terminus. Since they are only valid for "riding" trains, they are ignored during shunting.

 

If you have a look at the picture with the waiting and arriving train, you can see the departure signals. Those are of the second type (red bars longer than white ones) so they are valid both for the riding and shunting trains.

Edited by JBr

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Aha! Just twigged your layout is the lovely wee one in the ukulele box, over in the boxfiles area. It pretty much inspired me to get this one of mine started, so thank you!

 

 

I'm starting to think of signals and the like and sourcing models thereof - I'm guessing that such a branch terminus wouldn't have much in the way of 'proper' signalling, perhaps only point indicators?? Derailers on the 2 sidings, maybe? The diagonal blue 'end of line' indicators - would these be mounted on bufferstops, where present?

 

Actually, the Uke layout was built after the one I mentioned. I don't have a thread for it here, but some pictures are there: http://vlacky.brozek.org

 

Regarding signals, there are multiple scenarios. The Dobříš station mentioned in one of the previous posts is a good example of a branch line terminus with complete signals. However, there is a reason why the station looks like this. The mechanical station safety device and all the signals were installed in mid 1970s. The station was quite busy back then, with sidings serving multiple industries etc. 

 

Another and even more extreme example would be Luhačovice station (Luhačovice is a spa town in Moravia). Again, a terminus station but this time it is equipped with electronic station safety device remotely controlled from Přerov. The station is unmanned so there is no "station dispatcher" who would otherwise be supervising shunting and thus the station had to be equipped with complete set of way, departure and shunting signals.

 

I made few examples of how the signals could be installed in your station. They all depend on how much traffic would be on your branch line and what safety device would be "installed" in your station. I am not taking the entry signal into account as it is placed "outside" your layout. And they definitely are not the only options, but they are the most common ones.

 

Few notes -- points are marked as the real point levers would be -- half white/half black for manually operated points, full yellow for remotely operated points (by an electric point machine or switched by levers in the station building -- in such case all the cable routes would have to be modelled too).
 
Grey triangles are derailers preventing cars at sidings from accidentally getting to station tracks.
 
All the dashed tracks (eg. track 4) cannot be used for arriving or departing trains, they can only be entered by shunting.
 
 
Let's start with the most complex example. That would be a similar style to Dobříš. Most likely a mechanical or electromechanical station safety device is used there. Entry points are remotely operated from the station building. Shunting signal before the first point on entry to the station (because the points are remotely controlled the signal is used to allow shunting into the station). Points to the sidings and at the head shunt are manually operated. No shunting signals required for them as there needs to be a shunting operator present to switch them anyway. Stop way signals at the end of tracks 1 and 2 (intentionally one is two light signal with only red light installed and the other just one light signal -- both ways are fine). White red green departure signal for track 1 (green aspect on departure -- "line clear"), yellow white red green departure signal for track 2 (yellow and green aspect on departure -- "40 km/h maximum speed until you clear all the points, then line clear"). Both departure signals can also show the shunting allowed aspect (steady white light) or "proceed with caution" aspect (blinking white light).
 
While this setup may look nice on paper, I don't recommend it for the station of your length. The tracks are simply too short for it to look convincing as the departure and end of way signals would be too close to each other. 
 
post-6963-0-02229500-1548459970.png
 
Another possibility. Similar station, most likely a mechanical or electromechanial safety device that had a mechanical semaphore departure signal replaced with a light signal. Only one joint departure signal (square shield with one diagonal line = joint signal) used for the whole station. Yellow points remotely operated, most likely by cables. No shunting signals, white on the departure signal can only show the "proceed with caution" blinking white aspect, which is used only in case of some malfunction.
 
White light may be ommited and plain red green signal used instead.
 
post-6963-0-79156700-1548459974.png
 
Another option. Most likely a mechanical safety device utilizing point locks and keys and central locks in the station building. Aspect of the joint departure signal depends on point directions and is determined by the keys in the locks. Departure from track 1 "line clear", departure from track 2 "40 km/h and then line clear". This signal is ignored while shunting.
 
post-6963-0-62116800-1548459979.png
 
Either a same safety device setup as the one above, but this time with a white light instead of the yellow one, or a signal independent on points (ie. the station master just turns on a given light without any safety dependency on point setting). Only "stop", "line clear" or "proceed with caution" aspect can be shown. The signal is ignored while shunting.
 
post-6963-0-70801500-1548459984.png
 
The same station setup as above, but this time with just a two color signal. This is the simplest version which still includes a signal.
 
post-6963-0-44051900-1548459989.png
 
Completely signal-less station. No stand alone safety device apart from point locks and keys. No central lock board or anything. This would be a setup for a branch line with simplified traffic rules according to SŽDC regulation D3 (properly simulating D3 traffic actually isn't as easy as it sounds).
 
post-6963-0-16939100-1548459994.png

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Actually, those are not shunting signals in the picture but regular signals. You can tell that from the colors of the signal shield (that thin rectangular piece of metal with two white and two red bars). Shunting signals have the white/blue combination of bars and they only consist of white and blue light. Blue = shunting not allowed, white (steady) = shunting allowed.

 

Regular signals have the shield with a white/red combination and consist of various combinations of white, yellow, green and red. There may be two yellow lights in one signal, but all the other colors can only have one light in the signal. Some colors may not be present, depending on what aspects the particular signal is supposed to show.

 

Length of bars on the signal shields of the regular signals determine their "level of control". If the white and red bars are of the same length, the signal is only valid for the trains that arrive, depart or pass through the station. They are not concerned during shunting operations. White light in such signal is only used for a special aspect allowing the train to pass by the signal and proceed with caution (blinking white light or a combination of a steady red light and blinking white light).

 

If the red bars are about three or four times the length of the white ones, it means that the particular signal is valid not only for the "riding" trains but also for shunting operations. In such case the white light can have two meanings. If blinking, it is the same aspect as above. If steady, it means "shunting allowed". Red light on such signal means stop both for riding and shunting trains.

 

The signals in the mentioned picture from Dobříš are of the first type and while they have two light positions, only one is actually fitted with a bulb and a lens -- the red one. The meaning of those signals is simply to stop incomming trains as the station is terminus. Since they are only valid for "riding" trains, they are ignored during shunting.

 

If you have a look at the picture with the waiting and arriving train, you can see the departure signals. Those are of the second type (red bars longer than white ones) so they are valid both for the riding and shunting trains.

 

Thankyou JBr for the info. That explains it a lot clearer than I have read before and will make it easier to wore them up when I eventually do so.

 

Your comment about the arriving train, it is actually a 020 trailer car that was shunted off the train in the foreground and pushed into the siding alongside the main running line.

Edited by roundhouse

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Hi Joseph,

 

There are also Tillig 12mm gauge points in kit form as another (cheaper) option;

 

attachicon.gifIMG_2142.JPG

 

I'm concentrating on the H0 section of my layout at the moment so it's probably going to be a while before I get around to having a go at assembling these.

 

Cheers,

Peter.

 

Those look quite good. Just not that keen on a 12 deg crossing angle. May be drop by some time and take a look at them in the flesh.

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Actually, the Uke layout was built after the one I mentioned. I don't have a thread for it here, but some pictures are there: http://vlacky.brozek.org

 

I made few examples of how the signals could be installed in your station. They all depend on how much traffic would be on your branch line and what safety device would be "installed" in your station. I am not taking the entry signal into account as it is placed "outside" your layout. And they definitely are not the only options, but they are the most common ones.

 

Few notes -- points are marked as the real point levers would be -- half white/half black for manually operated points, full yellow for remotely operated points (by an electric point machine or switched by levers in the station building -- in such case all the cable routes would have to be modelled too).
 
Grey triangles are derailers preventing cars at sidings from accidentally getting to station tracks.
 
All the dashed tracks (eg. track 4) cannot be used for arriving or departing trains, they can only be entered by shunting.
 
 
Another option. Most likely a mechanical safety device utilizing point locks and keys and central locks in the station building. Aspect of the joint departure signal depends on point directions and is determined by the keys in the locks. Departure from track 1 "line clear", departure from track 2 "40 km/h and then line clear". This signal is ignored while shunting.
 
 
Either a same safety device setup as the one above, but this time with a white light instead of the yellow one, or a signal independent on points (ie. the station master just turns on a given light without any safety dependency on point setting). Only "stop", "line clear" or "proceed with caution" aspect can be shown. The signal is ignored while shunting.
 
 
 
 

 

Many, many thanks for taking the time to explain the signalling options in detail, it helps hugely. The layout is, as you correctly surmised, a terminus.

 

I will use either your option 3 or 4, and can now order the various kits and parts with a lot more confidence.

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I definitely recommend signals by www.navestidla.cz. I am not sure if the owner speaks English or sells abroad, but in case you can't get it, let me know, I bought bunch of various signals from him few years back and I have a signal for the version 3 I can spare.

Edited by JBr
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