Phoenix Yard (Including related builds and stock mods etc.)

[john new]

One piece of indoor work done, the layout time setting photo found and scanned.  Although the rolling stock may well wander in time period during operation on private user operational days IF it ends up good enough for exhibition the date setting will be summer 1977. I took this photo on Foss Islands Road sometime in 1977. I now also know exactly what the boundary wall/fence should be made of too.

 

(NB Image remains my copyright - not a public domain release)

Edited November 6, 2022 by john new
Photo(s) found and replaced post crash.

[JamesGWR101]

I've been watching your progress on the layout and so far, it looks really good. I like what you've done for the backscene. (York is a brilliant place to go. especially for train related stuff.)

[JamesGWR101]

On 01/05/2019 at 15:06, marc smith said:

Good to hear you've taken the DCC plunge John. Hope you get on well with it
I must say, it was DCC and in particular DCC sound that got me back into modelling

DCC sound is brilliant. it just sounds so realistic and the amount of sounds you can get on just one loco is amazing. My first encounter with DCC sound was my Granddad's Class 101 DMU he's got. Since then, the DCC sound collection increased to a BR Blue Class 40 40159 and GWR Castle 4-6-0 5029 Nunney Castle. 

[mogtrains]

Interesting concept.. will be watching with interest :-)

 

Re the DCC.. and sound particularly - I'm a fan. I think it makes a huge difference, not only to 'realism', but I think it actually influences how you operate. I mostly play with US HO stuff, and i think the sound somehow helps you to run slowly and more realistically, rather than banging about. BUT - I cannot understand why people don't turn down the volume! Especially at exhibitions.. I don't think you need to be able to hear locos on a neighbouring layout ? One drawback of 'entry' systems like the Bachmann one, I started with this, but it was only when I got the NCE Powercab that I really started to enjoy DCC more - being able to simply program things like momentum and turn the volume down on sound locos! ;-) I recommend that system without hesitation.

Having said all of that - I'm using DC on Winkford Green. I'm not going to be adding sound to these little OO locos and so on a small 'one loco in steam' layout, I didn't much see the point. Horses for Courses.

[john new]

Thanks all for the positive comments above.

 

Nothing running to photograph yet but a fair bit of progress. A good afternoon taking advantage of the weather - the layout brought out onto the workmate in the garden for soldering work. All the negative/common return side is now wired up with droppers to each rail as recommended in many places. Next steps (a) wire in the positive side with individually marked feeds and (b) build the control panel with section switches for analogue use and the studs for the points.

 

I may well cheat in the first instance - wire all the individual sections to a central point below where the panel will sit, then jury rig the other side of the chocolate block so that I can run on a one-engine only basis initially in DC or use more than one engine under DCC once I get the chips fitted I bought at York.The third thing wiring related - work out a wiring matrix for diodes for route selection. I have the PECO how to do it feature but have not previously tried it. 

 

One set back discovered though (My own fault). When I put the SLS stand fixtures and fittings back into the garage from their outing at York Show I didn't notice I had pushed the display board bag too far in and was consequently bending part of the layout's back scene board at one end.. Lessons learnt - it was (1) too flimsy and (2) inadequately braced so vulnerable to being bent. Luckily (2) found before the half relief buildings for that end were attached!

[john new]

Getting too cold outside now so back inside.  After a full day wiring the sectioned side (for DC mode) I now have all the underboard wiring finished, at least until I add the point motor wiring anyway.  I did go for the one engine in steam/diesel in throb option.  

 

Intial testing suggests everything is ok operating on analogue and the one location where stuff derailed now rectified. Dummy control panel top fitted so I can assess whether the potential switch locations are comfortably reachable for operating when sitting down at the front. (Home running)

 

Next step - attack the DCC options, get some heavier duty colour coded wire.

Edited May 18, 2019 by john new
Deletion of unexpected blank lines from post.

[john new]

On 16/05/2019 at 20:52, john new said:

Next step - attack the DCC options, get some heavier duty colour coded wire.

 

My first loco has now been fitted for DCC operation. (A Bachman 08, early green livery, No 13287)  The new NCE Powercab also now tested with said 08 on a short section of temporary track.  Observation - the guidance seems to be to use heavy duty wire, heavy duty wire won't fit into the terminals on the Powercab's PCB or into the terminals on the CP6 circuit breaker.

 

The quick bit of test running showed how slowly the loco will run on DCC.

[john new]

As a break from wiring, I have done some rolling stock modelling this afternoon. Not completed but well on the way is the first of two Dapol kit Presflo cement wagons. They won't be finished with the supplied barge boards as none of the one's shown in photos working onto the Derwent Valley Rly had them. Both will be finished in the very mucky all-over bauxite visible in published colour photos.

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by john new

[john new]

A bit more wagon building today.  After struggling yesterday with fitting brass bearings to the Dapol cement wagon I put that off to this morning.  Got it done but by a not well thought out method. Changed tack and had a go at another of the stock of kits.  The 24.5T Parkside Dundas coal wagon now pretty much finishecd ready for the primer stage. Still needs weights though.

 

If anyone has an easy method of getting brass bearings into the Dapol/Kitmaster axle boxes can they post please. The other cement wagon and a 10T mineral to follow.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by john new
Edited - Spelling correction

[john new]

On 10/02/2019 at 15:47, john new said:

Interesting experience yesterday as I went to buy some gun barrel colouring treatment as suggested in this post On track weathering. 

..... cut .....

I did get a bottle of the Gun Brown but I will have to wait to try it out as other things are currently getting in the way of finding time for the next spurt of modelling.

 

 

First experiment today with actually applying the gun-brown treatment. The bottle's instructions say put it on to hot metalwork (obviously not practical for track on plastic sleepers) After putting it on at today's outdoors ambient temperature the first coat does not seem to be making much difference. Will leave it 24 hours and try a second coat, perhaps after using the fan heater to warm up the rails. If that doesn't work will try my own post-PVA technique for the first time onto track.

[marc smith]

I'd be interested to see your results with the gun-brown treatment John. As you say, applying to hot / warm track is not "ideal" lol

Re your previous post about fitting wheel bearings to your wagon kits - Sorry, I meant to reply sooner (but got distracted)

What specific problems are you having with them John? In the past, I always found that fitting them to a wagon before assembly was the easiest and neatest.

Failing that (on an already built wagon eg) - I found it could take a bit of fettling, but I tended to check fit beforehand,
opening out existing holes / slots very slowly & carefully, using a very small drill bit. something like a fine diamond burr.
Remove a small amount at a time, and keep checking whether or not it fits....

I did end up with one wagon (well, I can remember just one! ha ha) where it resulted in the wagon not being square
So I removed just the one bearing (important not to glue brass bearings into place before you check this!)
And then I trimmed the hole, making it slightly oval. Once satisfied I could correct the squareness - I padded the oval hole with blu-tack (you could use tack wax or similar)

Though I've a feeling it ended up setting not quite square in the end anyway
A little tip - forgive me if you know this - but check squareness on a mirror or small piece of glass
 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

On 22/05/2019 at 23:27, john new said:

A bit more wagon building today.  After struggling yesterday with fitting brass bearings to the Dapol cement wagon I put that off to this morning.  Got it done but by a not well thought out method. Changed tack and had a go at another of the stock of kits.  The 24.5T Parkside Dundas coal wagon now pretty much finishecd ready for the primer stage. Still needs weights though.

 

If anyone has an easy method of getting brass bearings into the Dapol/Kitmaster axle boxes can they post please. The other cement wagon and a 10T mineral to follow.

 

 

try a drop of liquid cement in the axle hole leave for a few seconds for the plastic to soften and carefully squeeze bearing in. I use it for Cooper Craft, Ratio and Dundas kits I dont have any Dapol to try.

[D9020 Nimbus]

On 13/03/2019 at 14:39, john new said:

The cusp option of DCC chipped locos running on DC, seems to be a no-no, it can be done but most advice is not to try it.

 

New one on me. There should be no issues running a DCC-chipped loco on DC (provided the chip is DC-compatible—most are). What's inadvisable is running a DC loco on DCC—it's possible but a bad idea.

[john new]

1 hour ago, No46 said:

try a drop of liquid cement in the axle hole leave for a few seconds for the plastic to soften and carefully squeeze bearing in. I use it for Cooper Craft, Ratio and Dundas kits I don't have any Dapol to try.

I may well try that option on the mineral as my first option as I have an old built one spare with a damaged body (lost doors). If all else fails I can use just the doors off the new one to fix the old one.

 

The problem I am getting is that the bearings I have are like a top hat with a brim. The thickness of the brim stops the bearing going far enough in. I retrospectively drilled out the box on the first wagon but it was awkward with the solebar/axlebox already fixed in place!

Edited June 5, 2019 by john new

[john new]

17 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

 

New one on me. There should be no issues running a DCC-chipped loco on DC (provided the chip is DC-compatible—most are). What's inadvisable is running a DC loco on DCC—it's possible but a bad idea.

 

That was my initial understanding too (the no issues with a DCC chipped loco set for analogue running). However, in the supplied notes on the ZIMO MX600R chip against DC running on analogue it states not recommended. The notes for the DCD ZN8H chip do not have the same warning, is it therefore a chip specific warning for the MX600R?

 

Various comments in other threads I have read here on RMWeb also suggest the don't do it line. The NCE Powercab manual also warns against enabling DC running but the note is qualified by stating solely to avoid accidentally running locos if the wrong power supply is switched in.

 

Edit - The question re the ZIMO chip now answered elsewhere (see this thread)

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by john new
DCC query answered elsewhere. Link to answer added.

[john new]

A link posted here to a post in the Signaller69's Dunnington layout thread as an aid to re-finding his installed alternative to the big, fat, surface mounted Kadee magnet. An excellent on-going layout thread.

[john new]

Things plodding along between other tasks. It is coming together slowly with some decisions taken recently -

 

1) Regular operations will be single operator and therefore best worked from the front. The extension spur point has been laid in for future use in L shape with a second operator but at the present time the extension will not be added. 

 

2) A signal box style digram will be at the back of the layout behind the fiddle yard with a single row of numbered switches reachable from the front. Point switching still TBC but levers/passing contact likely. These will probably be modern versions of the Hornby Dublo one's I used on my Classic Train set layout. There is something satisfying about using levers rather than buttons or stud and probe.

 

3) Control will be from walk around controllers (Gaugemaster Combi  now a model W for DC and NCE Powercab - DCC). I need a second 15v supply for the points when in DCC mode; I will be stripping down the control panel box from the Classic TS, re-lidding it and using fly lead(s) up to the layout level, thereby shifting the mains down to floor level.

 

The panel diagram now drawn up. 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by john new
Photo(s) found and replaced post crash.

[john new]

With the latest SLS Journal/Newsletter and Index now at the printer I should have time to dig the layout out over the next few days and get a few more jobs on it done. 

 

Gun-brown: confirmation the experiment of trying it cold was a failure. A few places where I had soldered it has a minor stain, the rest has dried leaving just a greenish coating where the solution has dried and done nothing. Next warm day it will be washed off again outside so that the track dries quickly in the sun.

 

Kits/bearings: a set ordered of a different pattern without the edging lip to go with the Slaters van & wheel set. Will also try the push in whilst soft from poly glue trick suggested on the Dapol axle boxes. Hope to move the wagon kits on a bit once the bearings and the ordered transfers for the Parkside 24.5T arrive.

 

Magnet positions: Will also have a good play with the layout in shunting puzzle mode to assess where to put the magnets I've also ordered. Working on the principle it is best put them in now before ballasting/scenics is better than a retro-fit later when/if add Kadees. Little lost if that Kadee trial takes ages to occur.

 

Edit added - Fortunately I have also found this old thread regarding Kadee positioning only on straight track.

Edited July 31, 2019 by john new
More info' located and now linked.

[john new]

First coat of varnish on what will be the new mains power box. Starting to dismantle the old classic train set panel/box to reuse the components as that layout was scrapped recently.

 

NB These replacements may slightly differ from those originally uploaded but are from the same sequence. Update = Nov 2022.

 

 

Edited April 11 by john new
Photo(s) found and replaced post crash.

[Longmire]

Well done. I'll follow your work with interest.

[john new]

On dismantling it found the first PAT test sticker.  Built and tested for Warley Nov 1998. How time flies. The box and lid will live on, possible base board for an extra folding micro. 

 

Now to get most of these bits, plus the output feed sockets, into the new box. Will be a few days as still varnishing it. 

 

 

Edited April 11 by john new
On rereading the thread a missing image spot found and deleted.

[john new]

On 03/05/2019 at 22:11, john new said:

One piece of indoor work done, the layout time setting photo found and scanned.  Although the rolling stock may well wander in time period during operation on private user operational days IF it ends up good enough for exhibition the date setting will be summer 1977. I took this photo on Foss Islands Road sometime in 1977. I now also know exactly what the boundary wall/fence should be made of too.

 

 (Post crash - image now found and reinserted below)

 

(NB Image remains my copyright - not a public domain release)

I have now found a blog giving the sizes for Bill boards. Link posted before I lose it out of history.  I can now juggle it to square in Photoshop and then scale the poster to an accurate size.

 

As a general progress update - plodding on with the necessaries on  building & wiring the floor mount power box. 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by john new
Typo corrections

[john new]

Nothing worth a photo yet, but steady progress on the wiring. Next item, some XLR cables and sockets, they should arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday. I can then add the low volt umbilical cords to make the link from the new portable (floor level) mains box to the layout.

 

I hadn’t appreciated just  how much new stuff I would need to buy and fit due to changing from panel mount controllers set in the old control box’s lid to walkabouts plugging into the layout. Obviously a one-off cost, as the new box can feed any/all new layouts, provided I add the necessary chassis sockets on the layout.

[Signaller69]

Just found this thread John, will follow with interest.

 

Like you I am reaching the conclusion that I need Presflo wagons for "Dunnington" and that the Dapol kits are likely candidates, given the current prices of the Bachmann versions.

 

Martyn.

[john new]

After being sidetracked getting an SLS Journal edited and off to the printer, followed by two weeks away on holiday, I spent today working on the layout. The place where wagons were derailing rectified (an expansion/isolation gap in point work was too wide) and most of the work completed on the wiring inside the separate power box.

 

The next steps are replacing the original quick fit back scene boards (too low and flimsy), get the area completed for the section switch panel to be added plus adding two input sockets into the back scene for the power box connections. Currently all the sections are in and wired separately to a chocolate block below where the switches will be. At that point on the control panel side a bus bar connects all sections to one jury rigged input feed. That was added for test running until the individual section switches are added.

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by john new
Clarity