ECML carraige formations late 1970s

[robertcwp]

Thanks Robert,

I must have a wander through your Flickr account - its one i've come across in the past, but in all honesty being on a 24" iMac, the screen on which is 4000 pixels wide, the images being only 640 pixels wide are so small its difficult to see them, although i can totally understand why people do only upload small images.

 

Nice shots of the blue and grey HST.  That may yet have to be the second project on the list - the big question being whether to adapt Lima Mk3s (which I always thought were good for their time) or to use the latest Oxford Rail Mk3a, and remove the buffers - were there any other external differences?  One of these days i'll look at starting a thread for the future layout - just want to make a bit of progress with it first!

 

The Bachmann blue & grey Mk1s could put in appaerance on the Hull and Yorkshire Pullmans then in my 1976-1978 time period.

 

Can I just say thanks to everyone on this thread for your input, it really is useful, and I have learnt a lot.  Please do keep contributing!

 

Rich

Click on the image and it will take you to the Flickr page where there is a 1024 wide version.

 

i have enough issues with people stealing images, often crudely editing out the copyright then posting them on Facebook as their own finds, without letting out bigger ones.

[MarshLane]

Deltics and the first 20 Class 47/4s had issues when working with Mk2e stock. The Eastern's allocation of air-cons was therefore Mk2d and Mk2f with, as you say, Mk1 BGs and catering stock. Pressure vent Mk2a stock could deputise in an air-con rake if needed - I have seen a photo of an air-con rake with a Mk2a BFK which is useful because a Mk2d BFK is a bit of a task to make.

 

Until the HSTs really took hold the ECML rakes used Restaurant Buffets, Restaurant Unclassified, Kitchen Buffets and Miniature Buffets (normally as a replacement) as needed by the Marshalling Booklets. Mk1 Restaurant Cars based on either TSO stock, or later renumbered FO stock, were also used.

 

Most of the ER HST fleet would have been delivered by early 1979 and the only loco hauled day stock would have been the York semi fasts. 

 

The ECML Mk2 a/c stock was mostly MK2Ds with some later Mk2F strengthening lots of TSO's (and possibly FO's). I cannot see any Mk2Es allocated from new.

 

The sets varied but by the end of the 70's it could be BSO, TSOs, RB/RU(B), FO, FK, BFK  with the occasional BG instead.

 

Just looking around this morning and I see Hornby do some Mk2D stock - what is the general opinion of these?  Im presuming the level of detail/glazing would be better than the older Airfix ones?

 

I've been looking at Jim S-Ws P4 New Street blog, will have to investigate a rake of Lima Mk3s for the HST set I think.  Its either that or convert some Oxford Rail ones!

 

 

 

Click on the image and it will take you to the Flickr page where there is a 1024 wide version.

 

i have enough issues with people stealing images, often crudely editing out the copyright then posting them on Facebook as their own finds, without letting out bigger ones.

 

Hi Robert,

Oh I was not complaining, as I say, I can totally understand why people put smaller versions of them on - I'd looked at the Flickr page for a couple of those HST shots, but both were showing just 640px wide on Flickr as the maximum size.  Unfortunately, the behaviour you've seen is common place and will continue to get worse until somebody comes up with a new image type that is common to all browsers that is encrypted or scrambled in someway apart from on the website to which it is added.  But the chances of such a format being created is minimal as none of the browser developers have the interest.

 

Rich

[cpbell]

These were Mk2d build and Bachmann are currently only producing Mk2f.

Thanks.

 

I think its back to the old Airfix Mk2s for the Mk2d isnt it?

Rather a contrast - ex-Airfix for the BFK, new Bachmann for the FO, and Hornby 2d TSOs.

Edited January 19, 2019 by cpbell

[cpbell]

Most of the ER HST fleet would have been delivered by early 1979 and the only loco hauled day stock would have been the York semi fasts. 

 

The ECML Mk2 a/c stock was mostly MK2Ds with some later Mk2F strengthening lots of TSO's (and possibly FO's). I cannot see any Mk2Es allocated from new.

 

The sets varied but by the end of the 70's it could be BSO, TSOs, RB/RU(B), FO, FK, BFK  with the occasional BG instead.

Might I ask, for clarity, whether you're saying that the TSOs were 2d or 2f, please?  I have Hornbu 2d TSOs and a BSO, but will I need to replace them with the Bachmann 2f versions for accuracy?

Edited January 19, 2019 by cpbell

[robertcwp]

 

 

Hi Robert,

Oh I was not complaining, as I say, I can totally understand why people put smaller versions of them on - I'd looked at the Flickr page for a couple of those HST shots, but both were showing just 640px wide on Flickr as the maximum size.  Unfortunately, the behaviour you've seen is common place and will continue to get worse until somebody comes up with a new image type that is common to all browsers that is encrypted or scrambled in someway apart from on the website to which it is added.  But the chances of such a format being created is minimal as none of the browser developers have the interest.

 

Rich

Try clicking on the down arrow bottom right and do view all sizes.

[Bomag]

Might I ask, for clarity, whether you're saying that the TSOs were 2d or 2f, please?  I have Hornbu 2d TSOs and a BSO, but will I need to replace them with the Bachmann 2f versions for accuracy?

 

ER had both, I doubt than they kept then together so you were likely to have a mix. Without handy access to Longworth I cannot confirm the exact ratio but at least 2/3rds of the TSOs would have been Mk2Ds. 

 

The Mk2Fs were latter additions to enable all remaining non-a/c stock to be cascades or withdrawn e.g. Various Mk2a, a/b Mk1 non kitchen dining cars  (RSO, RUO 10xx and 36xx) and Mk1 Met-cam Pullman

[cpbell]

ER had both, I doubt than they kept then together so you were likely to have a mix. Without handy access to Longworth I cannot confirm the exact ratio but at least 2/3rds of the TSOs would have been Mk2Ds. 

 

The Mk2Fs were latter additions to enable all remaining non-a/c stock to be cascades or withdrawn e.g. Various Mk2a, a/b Mk1 non kitchen dining cars  (RSO, RUO 10xx and 36xx) and Mk1 Met-cam Pullman

Apologies for asking so many questions!  It sounds as though it would be reasonable to run a 2d TSO and a 2f version in the same rake.  What was the situation with BSOs af far as you're aware?  Presumably a 2d version would be more accurate in a rake which already includes 2 2fs (FO and TSO)?

[robertcwp]

TRSB+TRUK (marshalled together) in this HST from 1980.

 

As regards Mark 2d v Mark 2f, the ER had around 80 Mark 2fs by the mid-1970s. Generally, no distinction appears to have been made for the seconds, with all being shown as 62 seats for TSOs and 31 seats for BSOs (2f were 64 and 32).  However, carriage workings did specify 2f FOs in some trains, such as the Executive workings and the Flying Scotsman. They can be distinguished in photos. The 2d TSO had both lavatories on the same side. 2fs had shallower door droplights than 2ds - as shown here:

 

55008_Doncaster_unscheduled-stop-down-FS_10-4-76 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Peter Kazmierczak]

 

 

As regards Mark 2d v Mark 2f....................... 2fs had shallower door droplights than 2ds - as shown here:

 

55008_Doncaster_unscheduled-stop-down-FS_10-4-76 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Do you know, Robert, that after all these years I never realised that. Such is the value of RMWeb......................

Edited January 20, 2019 by Peter Kazmierczak

[robertcwp]

Do you know, Robert, that after all these years I never realised that. Such is the value of RMWeb......................

The situation became more complex in later years as doors were swapped round or replaced. The door droplight depth changed part-way through the Mar 2e build, with at least the first 61 seconds and all 14 brake seconds having the deeper droplights.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

For those with an interest, the Mk2e stock was:

 

Lot 30837 Derby 1972: TSO 5744 - 5804 (deeper droplights)

Lot 30838 Derby 1972: BSO 9496 - 9509 (deeper droplights)

Lot 30843 Derby 1972-73: FO 3221 - 3275

Lot 30844 Derby 1972-73: TSO 5809 - 5907

 

The gap in the numbering of the TSOs was allocated to the first four Mk3s TSOs which were in the prototype HST set.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Peter Kazmierczak

[robertcwp]

Silver Jubilee set in 1977 - Mark 2d BFK at each end and a Mark 1 RB, remainder comprises two FO and four TSO, all 2f, probably because this was a 'prestige' train, in spite of being Class 47 hauled in both photos in place of the booked Deltic:

 

47501_SilverJub_JUL-77 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

47414_SilverJub_JUL-77 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[jessy1692]

The excellent 'em70's' website has some great details on th mk1 pullmans and their trains:

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/proto_pullman.html

 

Im sure it will be of interest, some great modelling on there.

Cheers

James