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Scottish Region TV train


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Whilst on my turbo trainer this evening (if you have to ask you don't want to know!) my selected viewing was the Caledonian lines volume 4 DVD covering the Crianlarich to Oban line.

 

I've not watched it for a while and had forgotten the extensive shots at Killin of the TV train on a private charter hauled by a class 20 and class 27.

 

The narrator indicated that the TV train was a fixed set from its inauguration in the mid to late fifties until it was disbanded in 1964.

The set was also used for excursion hire.

I hadn't appreciated this and thought it would just be made up of ordinary excursion stock (i.e. anything hanging around the coach yard or spare from weekday rosters).

 

The train would make a great addition when I get to modelling Killin Junction.

I would have to shorten the set though as it appeared to be 8 coaches and BG, I'll be able to run a maximum of 6 on current plans.

 

I have seen photos of the TV train at Oban and I seem to recall footage of the set at Kyle on one of the Railway Roundabout videos on YouTube.

So it got about a bit.

 

The set appears to be made up of a Mk1 BG and Buffet with the remaining coaches being ex LNER (not my area of knowledge).

They certainly have the "e" suffix on the carriage number.

I need to re-watch the DVD when I'm not sweating........ :fie:

 

Does anyone know the make up of the set?

 

A quick goggle and a search here hasn't turned anything up.

 

Thanks

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Thanks Alasdair,

 

I really need to watch the DVD again from the comfort of an armchair with pen and paper in hand,

Some of the carriage numbers are visible which should help with identification.

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This 1957 circular (sent to station masters in Dundee and Burntisland district) gives the set makeup: it includes 13429.

post-7032-0-46231900-1547673289_thumb.jpg

 

I like the reference to "passenger compartments for the use of artistes".

 

Hope that helps,

regards

Graham

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Thanks Graham,

 

Most useful, I didn't realise the train was that long, I'll be able to model half of it!

 

I should be able to trace the carriages from their numbers.

 

I also love the high tech 17" screens!

Joking aside, It must have been cutting edge in 1957.

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"The number of vehicles is governed by the figures given by the commercial department" so you have quite a lot of scope!

 

If you trace the vehicles can you update the thread? It would be interesting to know the details.

 

I'll look forward to your 17" TVs in 2mm scale ... the screen diagonal is 2.83 mm ...

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From a quick search, SO coaches seem to be dia.186 and the RB dia.167 or 168? (Like the ones that lasted into blue/grey)

 

Some gresley stock courtesy Paul Bartlett: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoach

 

BSO on Robert Carroll's Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/37528618006/in/album-72157603653607671/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/8035238432/in/album-72157603653607671/

 

I'm sure there's mention of the TV train in one of the Oakwood press books about the Anstruther/St Andrews railway, I'll have a look.

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For the uninitiated - what was the purpose of the TV train? I assumed initially that it was in the vein of a travelling cinema (one still runs on road in the North-West) but the provision of a studio and accomodation for 'artistes' makes me doubt that.

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I thought I remembered an article on the ScR TV train in a contemporary Trains Illustrated but when I looked through the issues I happen to have from 1957 to 1959 I couldn't find it. Am I imagining that or does anyone else recall?

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I found the reference in 'The Anstruther & St. Andrews Railway' (Hajducki etc, Oakwood No.149).

It says the train was mainly deployed (in this area at least) for school trips - examples being from Edinburgh/Lothians in 1962/3, where the train was at least 10 coaches and was double-headed by B1s

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If you trace the vehicles can you update the thread? It would be interesting to know the details.

 

 

 

Hi Graham, I certainly will it can the act as reference for anyone else searching.

 

Thanks

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T'internet suggests there are details of the ScR TV train in the NBR Study Group Journal (Issue 70, March 1998, p34 for 4 pages) and on BackTrack January, April and June 1995 (in readers' letters), if anyone cares to chase these references up.

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So, as far as I can establish (and this ties in with Keefer's post above):-

 

BG 81030 - This number appears to fall in the post war Thompson range a 60' Corridor Full Brake perhaps?

BSK 16197 - diagram 40A from a 1928 build 61' 6" three compartment Corridor Brake Third

SO 13233 - diagram 186 from a 1935 build 61' 6" Open Third ​ 

                   - I suspect all the SOs are to this type but cannot confirm the numbers

RB 9140 - diagram 168 from a 1935 build 60' Tourist Buffet Car

RB 9141 - ditto above

BSO 16642 - diagram 191 61' 6" Open Brake Third?

 

Anything in italics above still needs to be confirmed.

 

All this is from my one and only LNER carriage book "Historic Carriage Drawings Vol 1 LNER & Constituents" by Nick Campling.

I'm impressed that I got this far!

Edited by Argos
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In June 1962,East Lothian County Council hired the TV train for 5 days,one day each for the five secondary schools in the County.I was at North Berwick High School at the time and in second year which meant we went on the train instead of the Highland Show an agricultural show held at Ingliston.

Our route and motive power was 2 B1s each way between North Berwick and Waverley.An A3 thought to be 60068 from Waverley via Glenfarg and Perth to Dundee and Thornton Junction back to Waverley.The train ran from Dundee to St Andrews for a 2 hour break thence via the Fife Coast line through Anstruther and Leven to Thornton Junction again behind a pair of B1s.I was told many years later it was the only time it ran between St Andrews and Crail.The coach chest were Gresley open seconds with a Buffet Car which along with at least one of the brakes were wired for sound.The Brake end of one coach was the studio (I sang in it be cause the teachers thought I could!)

There was an auxiliary brake van supplying additional power

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Further to my previous post,I can confirm a couple of details from Argos post.

Sc81030 was the Auxiliary Coach and was a BR 57 ft BG

Sc16197E was the coach with the studio and had sound in the compartments

The Buffet car details are confirmed

A really good pair of shots of it passing Kilconquhar on the Anstruther to Thornton line behind a B1 appears on Railways of Scotland ( Cinerail) Volume 1

Hope this is of some interest

The formation was Ten coaches with one buffet car

Years later I mentioned it to the then School Rector --- he couldn't remember it!

Edited by Steamysandy
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For the uninitiated - what was the purpose of the TV train? I assumed initially that it was in the vein of a travelling cinema (one still runs on road in the North-West) but the provision of a studio and accomodation for 'artistes' makes me doubt that.

The idea was to provide a form of entertainment and education as appropriate from a live studio on the train.

It was actually a bit ahead of it's time.

On the trip I was on the sound circuit was used to provide a places to look at from the schools own teachers who were on board(All of them!)one of who picked out the secondary school he'd went to about 20 or so years earlier!

Curiosity was revealed with flashes of the teachers in the studio being given demonstrations of how it worked My recollection is of a very hot lamp being close to my forehead while I was singing!

 

After we left St Andrews a sort of concert was produced from the studio coach the "artistes" being chosen from the pupils by the teachers,muggins being one of them!

I believe that apart from Scottish Region internal workings ,it was used on trains between Glasgow and Blackpool on occasion (Glasgow Fair weekend?)

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There is a Colour Rail photo on the inside back cover of the January issue of 'The True Line' (journal of the Caledonian Railway Association) of the train ready to leave Oban on 20th May 1960 headed by 76001 and 45115.  Unfortunately , due to the curvature of the platform, only the locos are in view.  It accompanies the latest in a series of articles on C & O locos.  I can't seem to find it on the Colour Rail website.

 

Jim

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There is a Colour Rail photo on the inside back cover of the January issue of 'The True Line' (journal of the Caledonian Railway Association) of the train ready to leave Oban on 20th May 1960 headed by 76001 and 45115.  Unfortunately , due to the curvature of the platform, only the locos are in view.  It accompanies the latest in a series of articles on C & O locos.  I can't seem to find it on the Colour Rail website.

 

Jim

 

The same image is on the cover of "On West Highland Lines" by Robert Robotham with the photo credited to Michael Mensing.  76001 is in absolutely filthy condition but with safety valves blowing ready for the climb out of Oban.

 

Jim

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There is a Colour Rail photo on the inside back cover of the January issue of 'The True Line' (journal of the Caledonian Railway Association) of the train ready to leave Oban on 20th May 1960 headed by 76001 and 45115.  Unfortunately , due to the curvature of the platform, only the locos are in view.  It accompanies the latest in a series of articles on C & O locos.  I can't seem to find it on the Colour Rail website.

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim & Jim49

 

It is quite a well used image that pops up in quite a few articles/books on the C&O including one of the later editions of John Thomas's history of the line.

Frustratingly, as with most photos, the carriage stock is secondary so not recorded.

 

Up until recently I had always assumed the train was used in conjunction with an outside broadcast rather than excursion traffic.

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The same image is on the cover of "On West Highland Lines" by Robert Robotham with the photo credited to Michael Mensing.  76001 is in absolutely filthy condition but with safety valves blowing ready for the climb out of Oban.

My mistake.  It is the lower of two images and the credit reads 'M. Mensing/Colour Rail' so I assumed the lower one was the Colour Rail one.  Explains why I couldn't find it.

 

Yes 76001 is looking very much the worse for wear with the smokebox and cylinders badly rusted.

 

Jim

 

Edit for typo

Edited by Caley Jim
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The Railway Magazine of 1957 (it just so happens that I have a copy to hand) has a couple of short articles about the train.

 

.

 

Nothing new to add to the above, except that it ran "recently" to London from Glasgow in.connection with a football match. Also from Aberdeen, Oban and Dundee on successive days to Glasgow in connection with a Television & Radio exhibition at the Kelvin Hall.

 

As said before, 11 vehicles were converted, 7 Sos, a BSO, BSK fitted as studio and the compartments for 'Artistes', and a Restaraunt buffet (no screens, just loudspeakers. A full brake with Generator  for power supply.

 

All from 'Notes & News 7/57

 

Another brief mention in N & N 12/57, being used for a travelling knitwear & textile exhibition train.

 

No photies, sorry!

 

Regards

 

Ian

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  • 2 months later...

18 April:- Edinburgh Evening News web site has a feature on 9 closed stations in Edinburgh.One of the shots is of  Murrayburn School  pupils boarding the Television train at Gorgie East in 1961.Two of the Gresley Open seconds can clearly be seen

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Argos and SteamySandy, I was one of the pupils on a TV Train in 1961. We boarded at Balgreen Halt, Edinburgh, which was right by our primary school, and travelled to Glasgow where a boat trip took us ‘Doon the Watter’ (River Clyde) to Dunoon then returned from Glasgow by TV train. Our teacher was a retired missionary, who disapproved of Cliff Richard, who was singing on the TV, and insisted we sang our own Scottish songs to drown out the pop music!! We were totally embarrassed, but the trip was a great adventure! Sorry I had no knowledge of locomotives back then, but most of the boys spent their lunchtimes with their Iain Allan trainspotter books at the Haymarket depot.

Edited by Marly51
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  • 3 weeks later...

London Midland Steam North of the Border by Derek Cross has two pictures of television trains.

 

page 54 piloted by Stanier Black Five-Train engine a Clan 

 

page 75 Stanier Black Five and all Ex LNER coaches.

 

I can’t post the pics due to copyright but the book is cheap on amazon used:

 

 

49DE031E-2077-48BC-9819-B4CBD41DDF68.jpeg

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