We Don't Know How Lucky We Are

[Hroth]

...

Whatever our betters have planned for us, I am sure it will be marvellous and that we are very, very lucky indeed.

Having seen our "betters" on the Televisor this morning, I feel more like a headless chicken rather than a clear-eyed, healthy individual about to step into the broad sunlit uplands of a brave new Tomorrow....

 

And things can't get any better.  It's started snowing.....

Edited January 18, 2019 by Hroth

[jjb1970]

If we became a mini-me Singapore with terrific SE Asian food, clean and safe cities, polite and well mannered people everywhere and good weather I'd be as happy as a pig in ***t. But that's just me.

[Pacific231G]

Personally I'm confused as to whether we're supposed to become the 1950s again or Singapore. 

 

I'm not sure how we combine the ideals of our Golden Past with the reality of a major commercial centre in the Far East. Perhaps we get closest if we imagine Singapore in 1942?

 

Whatever our betters have planned for us, I am sure it will be marvellous and that we are very, very lucky indeed.

Oh it'll be just fine and dandy. Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, Pakistan and half of Africa will decide to be ruled by us again, in our interests not theirs, and will only be allowed to buy from British manufacturers  and get their insurance and banking from the City so it won't matter if our products aren't quite as good as those from elsewhere. 

 

For me the symbol of Britain's industrial failure in the 1970s was discovering that Meccano was now made in Calais and not in Liverpool. It's not inevitable, the world's leading manufacturer of model railway track is still in Devon (but don't we just love to fault it) 

[Edwardian]

and the USA....

 

Well indeed, Trump should surely convince them that the prolonged and painful experiment commenced by the Founding Fathers has ultimately failed.

[adb968008]

If we became a mini-me Singapore with terrific SE Asian food, clean and safe cities, polite and well mannered people everywhere and good weather I'd be as happy as a pig in ***t. But that's just me.

The only problem with that is the title of “Singapore of Europe” has already been taken, several times. Indeed each country in Europe has one... (we like to think of them as tax havens) Monaco, San Marino, Lichtenstein, Azores, Canary Islands,, Gibraltar, Heligoland, Faroes, Aland Islands, N Cyprus and even the Russians have Kaliningrad. Each speaks the trusted language of its larger nation state member of influence on its status and provides confidence to it...of course the European continents haven “Singapore” of choice surely is Switzerland.

Edited January 18, 2019 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

I do know how lucky I am. I've long wanted to model the pre-group era but the frequently complex liveries of the locomotives has put me off until fairly recently. I've been buying locos as they become available to get a very significant leg-up. 

 

A quick snippet on car milages.

My last Ford Escort managed just over 200,000 miles but the body needed a lot of work annually. My previous one managed 265,000

 

My father's Citroen Xantia managed just under 300,000 but what was most remarkable was that the clutch was the original one right up until the end.

Can't match the Xantia, but my 1991 Peugeot 205xs, sold to a mate with 113k on the clock, managed £180k before it needed a clutch and is, I hear, still on the road three owners on from him. It's morphed from a 1.4 petrol to a 2.2 Turbo diesel in the interim, so I suspect there's not much beyond the shell left by now..... 

 

Your Escort clearly wasn't a Mk2.

 

John

Edited January 18, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Philou]

Hello Rob and chums,

 

I fished out my old TTR stuff and took some pictures just to add to your 'We don't know how lucky were are ..... ' thread. The picture quality is not up to much - I don't have anywhere 'special' for photos and this time of year natural light is lacking and I was too close to the object so there's too much reflection (flare?) from the flash (willing to learn techniques BTW ).

 

These are the first two locos that I ever had, the blue one and then the 'American switcher'. I boo-booed in the earlier post - they came with three and not two coaches. The American ones have lighting inside them - very advanced for c.1955. Spot also the original speed controller - 14v AC output - click twice to change direction. (I still don't understand how a small AC motor works.)

 

 

I've also placed the 'Duke of Gloucester' with three coaches alongside the blue loco (on the box lid it shows the loco with 4472 on the side) just to capture the evolution (OK 65 years between them so one would expect some improvements.)

 

 

The next two are comparative photos of a Roco Pacific (SNCF 231E30) and the DoG .The Roco is tender drive with tyres ('euew') and is on par weight-wise with DoG. I have no idea if one pulls more than the other. Is the Roco loco really worth a lot more than DoG? The only thing I can think of is that there is far more external plumbing which presumably is is more costly to apply.

 

 

 

Just for comparison of 'WDKHLWA', here's my very first whitemetal kit that I made in 1966. Looking back it was the bees knees if you wanted something different. Look at it now - it's just wrong - where's the detail? (Three lamp-irons have gone walkabouts and the etched number plate). It should never have been lined - but that's what it showed on the box-lid - who was I to argue with Mr Wills as a 15 year-old PFY.

 

 

Rob, if you think I'm hogging your thread, just let me know and I'll delete if you wish.

 

Food for thought.

 

I will leave this on the table: Can you have as much 'fun' with the RTR of today .... mmmmm?

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Edited January 18, 2019 by Philou

[robmcg]

Absolutely marvellous photos Philip, I love the old models, they are an intrinsic part of enjoying life!

 

As to reversing AC motors, I have no idea either.. my Marklin 1964 adventures required a burst of power making the engines jump a little, maybe it was reversing polarity or some magic thing?  <g>

 

The Wills kit is lovely too. In 1966 I was trying to power Kitmaster models on a long straight diorama using a Meccano clockwork motor, a spool and brown cotton, I then filmed it with my first 8mm movie camera.   All my school holidays were spent working, and after school work, to pay for these things, but I had a secure loving home too, full of railway books and magazines so no lack of inspiration.

 

The Wills 0-6-0T reminds me of the Hornby Dublo 2-rail R1 model of about 1962, which I loved.

 

Cheers 

[Philou]

Hello Rob,

 

It's a GWR ex-TVR U1 class 0-6-2T loco body - on an R1 chassis - probably why it looked familiar!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[robmcg]

I showed a half-fiished pic of a new tooling Princess a few messages back, here it is in finished form, subject to errors and alterations.

 

Colour film in 1937?  Just possible. 

 

6204 resplendent..

 

originally

 

 

With old-tooling body, new Duchess wheels re-sized, and some modest photo-trickery, it's nearly all Hornby.

 

 

What a fine model this will be!

[Hilux5972]

The remaining fleet of GWR 4-6-0’s will take over services from Paddington.

Oh what a sight that would be. To see Paddington bustling with steam again would be a dream come true. Even for a couple of hours.

[adb968008]

Oh what a sight that would be. To see Paddington bustling with steam again would be a dream come true. Even for a couple of hours.

The closest I’ve seen in modern memory was Trier station on the Monday in 2010 around 12pm iirc.

The BR23 was arrived from Gerolstein, a late running BR78 was on another train

And 5519 was waiting in the station for the east end of the platform to clear on a Luxembourg train.

Whilst two locos were sitting in the sidings, the Rheingold with a BR41 arrived.. and the 012 departed for Koblenz

Giving no less than 5 steam hauled passenger service trains in the station area and 7 steam locos.

Plus a BR218 a DSB nohab and a bizarre little shunter.

 

The station was quite choked, not just in trains but in smoke and passengers too.

By 1pm, the station was clear, ready for the next. (2x 01’s, 2 more 41’s, an 03, and 2x50’s + a52 were up lines elsewhere at this point).

 

Quite some event with 000’kms of steam haulage on several lines.

 

Some of Woltsztyns May parades used to get quite interesting to prior to 2008, with a few in the station at the same time.

 

Sadly I think those days are gone in Europe too, there’s not been anything on mass scale in the UK in my lifetime, Two side by side or passing or double heading has happened on regular occasion, and the S&C has had 3 in a day. Though mass gatherings of insteam locos still happens fairly regularly at preserved lines / museums, though these too are in decline.

Edited January 19, 2019 by adb968008

[E3109]

The only problem with that is the title of “Singapore of Europe” has already been taken, several times. Indeed each country in Europe has one... (we like to think of them as tax havens) Monaco, San Marino, Lichtenstein, Azores, Canary Islands,, Gibraltar, Heligoland, Faroes, Aland Islands, N Cyprus and even the Russians have Kaliningrad. Each speaks the trusted language of its larger nation state member of influence on its status and provides confidence to it...of course the European continents haven “Singapore” of choice surely is Switzerland.

I'd always liked Singapore, visited twice before (the second time to visit the railway just before its demise).

 

The third time I visited was just a few months ago, the idea was to treat my missus to a shopping trip (who hails from Phnom Penh).

My joke with her, was that we will visit the (fantastic) Singapore Zoo, to visit her family haha.

 

She didn't turn up at the hotel as arranged. Called her all the MFs under the sun via messenger because of it, you get the picture, I travel halfway around the world for an extended weekend break and she couldn't be bothered showing up etc

 

In desperation, I rang her boss who told me she'd dropped her off at the airport the previous morning.

 

It turned out, that as she turned up before me and is a tidy looking bird who at the time was under 30 they simply assumed she was a prozzy and refused her entry!

 

They kept her in prison and confiscated her phone, sorry but that's not the sort of society I wish to visit.

What makes this worse, is that Singapore and Cambodia are members of ASEAN, the Asian equivalent of the EU. Thus free movement regs apply (theoretically).

 

I ended up getting a return flight to Phnom Penh and eating a lot of humble pie with my missus, that's for sure.

 

Had a right ding d ong with their authorities when I got back to the UK. I didn't chance this before coming home, as my flight was via Singapore.

 

I later found out, that the unofficial and unspoken 'rule' is that women from Indochina, Thailand and Burma need to have a minimum of 1000USD on their person or they are automatically refused and detained pending ejection.

The fact that my missus informed them that I had the holiday money, and told them which hotel we were staying at, fell upon deaf ears. The immigration dept didn't even phone the hotel to verify her story.

 

Had a fairly intelligent dialogue with one of their officers via email when I got home, sadly when I pointed out that in my opinion they were being racist towards fellow Asian folk the dialogue stopped abruptly.

Told them that they didn't check to see if I had $1000 on me, thus why did they check her?

 

Never visiting the place again, not even in transit.

In fact they told my other half that she will get into bother even if going VIA Changi to elsewhere.

 

Done with that place.

 

I apologise for posting this story, which is irrelevant to the OP's topic but this is more of a reply to ADB than anything else.

Edited January 19, 2019 by E3109

[Philou]

@adb968008

 

Could be what I was looking at yesterday afternoon on the SWR (SüdWestRundfunk) channel 'Eisenbahn Romantik'. A whole load of steam locos (all German - but I know nothing of their classes) arriving from the south via the Saar, the west via Luxembourg (Lützberg), and the south-east all meeting up at Trier. I missed the date of the filming unfortunately.

 

Showed an impressive few minutes of two of them leaving at the same time in the same direction on adjoining tracks and keeping at the same speed. The Rheingold went through too!

 

If anyone is interested the transmission is every day (Sundays and Bank Holidays excepted) at about 14:00 (ECT), 13h00 your time, BUT you will need your dish pointing to the non-UK Astra satellite (Astra 19.2E, channel 1114 (at the moment)).

 

Sorry Rob, hijacking again - perhaps I should have put this in the Continental section.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Invicta]

I think we live in a age where higher and higher standards are expected, and the quality of today’s models are at a stage where we could have only dreamed about 15-20 years ago. Yes, the Triang, Hornby Doublo, Wrenn etc were not in the same league as stuff coming out of Germany but then look at the price difference between them in the 1970’s and 80’s.

 

It’s not just model railways that were dire back then, but look a cars being churned out by British Leyland and alike. Absolutely woeful compared to what’s available today, so yes, we’ve not had it so good and may it continue.

 

Thinking back to the stuff I was buying as a kid/teenager, although Airfix and Mainline made a quantum leap forward in terms of appearance and detail, if not mechanisms, we're really on a different planet these days, not just in terms of detail but also the sheer variety of what's available- Could you imagine Hornby bringing out a Ruston or Peckett in the late 70's?

Having said that, when I returned to modelling in the early 2000s, the first thing I unpacked from 15 years of storage and that ran pretty much straight from the box without any fettling was my Wrenn City of London bought second-hand in about 1983...

 

 

 

Your Escort clearly wasn't a Mk2.

 

 

 

My old Mk2 (1979 1.3L, bought when I finished uni in 1988 and sold on early in 1991) is still around- although last time I looked it was currently on SORN- and 30 years later I still miss it a bit and crave an RS2000 if I had the money and spare garage space...

[adb968008]

@E3109.

 

Horrific experience and my sympathies. But its not unique to Singapore.

 

Right next to the Sheraton Heathrow, is Londons equivalent rejection centre, which has as many visitors checking in / out daily as the hotel next door has.

It is by no means unique to any one country. After March we may find certain citizens of the UK have similar rejections in Europe, based on past events in their lives., or historical national backgrounds or just a general personal resentment of the UK regardless of nation agreements if you get the wrong guard at the wrong time. Certainly at some lesser equipped airports it wont be the fastrack EU line any more.. it’ll be the line shared with Russians et al that most guards dont want to deal with. You can expect to be questioned hard about your visit, proof of funds, purpose, insurance, return travel, and no ties, as access will now be a privelidge to be granted admission visit not a right of access to do whatever you want.

 

Still if it happened to me I would probably have similar thoughts to avoid. (Indeed i had a similar unpleasant experience in the Philipines and in Ukraine), though in those cases it was about wasting my time in the hope of alms, so I can partially relate to it, unpleasant i agree none the less.

Edited January 19, 2019 by adb968008

[Legend]

I think actually there is a recognition that we do know “we’ve never had it so good” . Certainly magazines never stop telling us . It’s true there are some very detailed models . I look at my fantastically smooth model of J36 thinking back in the 70s I’d never have believed I’d have one of these.

 

I think with Hornbys 2019 program and the likes of Oxford producing lower priced models there is a range of price points for all, whereas in the past prices have always been higher and escalating (Bachmann) now there really is something for most. Coupled with internet bringing people together,the range of information available, like on this forum, and giving them the chance to buy and sell second hand easily (eBay) in terms of the hobby I think we really have never had it so good . Also with the number of exhibitions around , so looking forward to Model Rail Scotland, but I also have a local exhibition in Irvine before that, the hobby appears to be thriving .

 

Is this the best? No I don’t think so . The market has already changed and I think will continue to evolve . I’m hoping there is a space for a mainstream manufacturer like Hornby , but I think we will see lots more smaller concerns bringing very detailed models out, maybe limited runs at reasonable prices (no middlemen) . Accurascale , Realtrack, Hattons, Revolution , Kernow . I’m hoping that technology will evolve so that prototypes we never thought would be viable may yet emerge , like I keep saying my Swindon 126 mu.

 

The only sting is that I think local modelshops , or a high street presence will continue to deteriorate. Still with lower prices from Hornby and TV coverage (GMRC) that may not be as bleak as I think

Edited January 19, 2019 by Legend

[The Johnster]

The hobby is in very good shape, and trade support for RTR has never been better (the kit business is withering on the vine for several reasons, chief of which are that RTR is better quality and many of the promoters are retiring or passing on).  There are more exhibitions than ever, and one of the reasons that high street shops have been in decline is that very few of them were proper model railway shops anyway, just general modelling suppliers or toy shops; those that are left are very good at what they do and, while it might not look like it if your town doesn't have one, this is IMHO A Good Thing.  It has, in most cases, adapted well to the internet and the credit/debit card society, though Springside need to get their act together as they seem not to have heard of debit cards and cannot accept online orders.

 

I take absolutely no notice whatsoever of doom mongering about the ageing demographic.  It's been ageing for at least 60 years to my knowledge, yet there are more modellers than ever.  It is a healthy hobby and a thriving trade.  All is well; not perfect, but better than it's ever been.

[robmcg]

....

Sadly I think those days are gone in Europe too, there’s not been anything on mass scale in the UK in my lifetime, Two side by side or passing or double heading has happened on regular occasion, and the S&C has had 3 in a day. Though mass gatherings of insteam locos still happens fairly regularly at preserved lines / museums, though these too are in decline.

 

Youtube clips of such trains give the impression that the Princess makes a better exhaust sound than double chimney engines...

[robmcg]

Actually the 'old' Princess was not in my opinion as dire as some suggest, a bit sparse around the front frames perhaps.

 

 

When I transposed a photo of the old tooling onto a photo of the prototype they matched almost perfectly, yet many were saying how the proportions 'were all wrong'.

 

 

 

:Lovely, especially if Hornby make bevelled front wheels to match the bevelled drivers (re-sized Duchess versions used in pic).

 

cheers

 

oops this post is rather repeating myself.

Edited January 20, 2019 by robmcg

[NINJA]

But, in years gone by and there was not the media exposure we have nowadays, ignorance was bliss.

 

I thought my green triang princess Elizabeth was the bees knees.

 

The Hornby SD range of wagons were excellent for their time, but the light was truly let in when Hornby Dublo brought out the Co-Co purporting to be a deltic.

[7013]

Happy memories of ‘Princess’ class locos, I am a year older than ‘Johnster’ . A maroon Princess Royal was my first two rail loco which had the correct curved steam pipes and a representation of the valve gear.I still have a black Princess Victoria which had straight steam pipes and no valve gear. I had great affection for these locos partly because they were descendants of ‘Kings’, The King was a big brute of a loco, the Princess looked similar but just a bit more elegance in its lines.

[ThaneofFife]

Here is my guess as to how this model might look in 1936 form when it broke long distance speed records by travelling from Euston.to Glasgow non-stop in 5 hrs 43 mins 68.2mph average..

 

 

that time sounds amazing. so 40 years later we was just hitting the flat 5 hours with modern electric traction, improved p-way and new signalling.

 

should I be looking at the 43 minutes saving as being a giant leap?

 

also as the run was non-stop were the crews able to change over through a tender - front coach connection as they did on the ECML runs?

[adb968008]

that time sounds amazing. so 40 years later we was just hitting the flat 5 hours with modern electric traction, improved p-way and new signalling.

 

should I be looking at the 43 minutes saving as being a giant leap?

 

also as the run was non-stop were the crews able to change over through a tender - front coach connection as they did on the ECML runs?

Ah but is it non-stop ?

Is there anything from London that is non-stop at all before Scotland, even the sleeper has a nap in Preston, and drop off in Carlilse.

[Pete the Elaner]

that time sounds amazing. so 40 years later we was just hitting the flat 5 hours with modern electric traction, improved p-way and new signalling.

 

should I be looking at the 43 minutes saving as being a giant leap?

 

also as the run was non-stop were the crews able to change over through a tender - front coach connection as they did on the ECML runs?

The Princesses had no corridor tenders. The crew had to ride the train throughout. There may have been 2 crews on the footplate, which would have been a little crowded.

 

Where did you get 5 hours from? The hourly London-Glasgow service is timetabled for 4h29 with 6 stops. Coronation Scot was scheduled to do this in 6h30, but this was a once a day service which stopped at Carlisle only. Even so, today's regular service is 45% quicker with an extra 5 stops included too.

 

The 5h43 Lizzie was a publicity run, so better compared with the record of 3h52 set by the APT. The modern record is again about 45% quicker.

 

You should be looking at a speed increase of at least 45% & debating if that is a giant leap.