Unashamedly Coarse Scale Project !

[andi4x4]

Hi Folks,

 

 

I bought, on ebay, this scratchbuilt, tinplate, low detail, 57XX style pannier body with no chassis or running gear and painted in quite a thick coat of what appeared to be Humbrol green enamel. Simple and low-tech, almost naive, I felt it would fit in well with my Hornby O Gauge collection.  So, into a plastic bowl, along with the contents of a can of Mr Muscle oven cleaner. Good soak and a scrub with a clean toothbrush (the wifes, not my own of course 🤭 ) removed all traces of paint. Cut slots in the buffer beams for the Hornby style couplings and filled in the original drawhook holes.  Treated a few areas of rust with a suitable rust remedy solution then gave it a coat or three of primer. Resulting in this :-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overnight curing on a hot radiator and a couple of coats of matt black later brings us to how she looks today - now awaiting BR decals to the side tanks , red to the buffer beams and a coat of laquer to finish off prior to final assembly.

 

 

 

 

The body came fitted with dome, chimney and safety valve cover, all coated in the same nasty green paint, but, they turned out quite nice as you can see below ! Modern motor and gearbox will be fitted, spoon collectors for 3rd rail pickup, cast steel/iron, coarse scale wheels on quartered axles ( flangeless centre pair for tight curves ) supplied by Walsall Model Industries. All I need now is chassis / frames and connecting rods so I can make a start on the running gear. Oh, and a lot of lead weight - it don't weigh very much !

 

 

 

 

 

More later when something else has happened !

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by andi4x4

[Nearholmer]

Hoooray!!

 

You might say that I like this.

 

Kevin

[andi4x4]

Hoooray!!

 

You might say that I like this.

 

Kevin

 

 

Lol !  

 

 

Not quite expecting that response, but thanks for the positive !       

 

I guess you'll be following then ?!

[Nearholmer]

Maybe.

 

Coarse-scale gets so little "airtime" on RMWeb that such as this has to be celebrated.

 

Do the WM wheels come ready-profiled?

 

K

[andi4x4]

Hi Kevin,

 

I agree, more vintage/classic/coarse scale O gauge is needed !

 

Wheels can be profiled as you wish, just need to stipulate the required profile when you order. I stated that my locos are all run on code 200 rail, but, may, on occasion be required to run on tubular tin plate track. Not compared the profile to Hornby wheels yet, will have a look later and update !

[robertc]

Look forward to seeing it finished. Well done!

cheers

 Bob

[andi4x4]

On 17/01/2019 at 21:29, robertc said:

Look forward to seeing it finished. Well done!

cheers

 Bob

 

 

  Thanks Bob, Me too ! 

 

Might have a 'mock-up' this evening, just to get an immpression of the finished thing !  

Edited July 5, 2022 by andi4x4

[Simond]

I’m sure Bill Connell at Premier can supply frames, rods & spacers to suit.

 

Best

Simon

Edited January 17, 2019 by Simond

[andi4x4]

I’m sure Bill Connell at Premier can supply frames, rods & spacers to suit.

 

Best

Simon

 

 

Hi Simon,

 

Yep, already checked the website and they are definitely an option, however, the 'scale' frames may distract from the 'vintage tinplate' appearance I am hoping to achieve. Definitely on the 'possibilities' list though !

[robertc]

You could just make them from styrene as I do Andi.

Make them as tinplate looking as you desire! 

I'm sure it would work just a well for 3-rail as my 2-rail :>)

cheers

Bob

[Mark Carne]

I understand that Wallsal offer 2 different profiles for coarse scale, coarse and extra coarse, plain ordinary coarse for running on solid section rail track, and extra coarse for running on tinplate track. It's a common misconception that coarse and tinplate are compatible, which isn't always the case, I can't remember the entire ins and outs of it, but coarse is 28m/m b2b, and tinplate is 27m/m b2b, and tinplate standard flanges are deeper, at least 2 m/m, possibly a little more, as required for reliable operation on a round headed rail of 3m/m diameter.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Mark Carne]

By the way, nice project! I wonder if it might be a Leeds model Co body, Leeds did a pannier post WW2, and the tank does look quite nicely formed, while not impossible for the amateur at home on the kitchen table, it would impressive.

[andi4x4]

You could just make them from styrene as I do Andi.

Make them as tinplate looking as you desire! 

I'm sure it would work just a well for 3-rail as my 2-rail :>)

cheers

Bob

 

Hi Bob,

 

Styrene is indeed an option, and I do have a suitable stock of it !  I used to build 16mm scale Narrow Gauge locos from styrene, but, they had batteries and RC gear inside which nicely increased the weight. I would need to add a substantial amount of lead to do the same with a track powered loco !

 

Definitely under consideration though !

[andi4x4]

I understand that Wallsal offer 2 different profiles for coarse scale, coarse and extra coarse, plain ordinary coarse for running on solid section rail track, and extra coarse for running on tinplate track. It's a common misconception that coarse and tinplate are compatible, which isn't always the case, I can't remember the entire ins and outs of it, but coarse is 28m/m b2b, and tinplate is 27m/m b2b, and tinplate standard flanges are deeper, at least 2 m/m, possibly a little more, as required for reliable operation on a round headed rail of 3m/m diameter.

 

Cheers, Mark

 

 

Hi Mark,

 

Never even considered the fact there might be two coarse profiles !  I just asked for coarse scale and explained that I normally run on code 200 with occasional tubular tinplate use !  I have to be honest, having a quick look, they are finer than the wheels on my smaller 0-4-0 Hornby locos, but, about the same as the wheels on my Hornby c/w 4-4-0 Compound, both of which seem to run fine on both tin and Code 200. I haven't measured the flange depth or the b2b dimensions on the Walsall wheels, but the flanges look to be about 2.5mm or thereabouts.

 

 

By the way, nice project! I wonder if it might be a Leeds model Co body, Leeds did a pannier post WW2, and the tank does look quite nicely formed, while not impossible for the amateur at home on the kitchen table, it would impressive.

 

I did consider that it may have been a commercial kit when I first spotted it on the auction site, but, having got it in my hands, and further confirmed when I had removed all the paint, it is obviously scratchbuilt as the scribe marks from measuring and marking out were visible and things like buffer beams and solebars are obviously just cut from barstock. The steam dome is a turned brass casting which was intended to sit flush on top of a traditional tubular boiler, however, it had been fitted directly to the flat top of this body which, obviously, left a large gap underneath it, so I have had to turn the base of it down flat to mate with the top of the body better. Also, two other things which the original builder failed to consider whilst putting it together were:-  how to access the nut holding the chimney in place (which is almost inaccessible) and fitting the chassis to the body (no provision for this at all)

 

Still, at £40 including postage, plus about £125 for wheels, axles, motor, gearbox, 3rd rail collector, couplings, and other minor fittings, it will build up into nice, simple loco for not a huge amount of money !

[andi4x4]

Evenin' All.

 

I made a start on the chassis last night - 1.5mm x 25mm brass brass strip.  Two pieces bolted together, marked up and drilled holes for the axle bearings.  I made up the coupling rods too whilst I was at it - These were drilled out first, then clamped in place over the axle bearing markings on the chassis frames whist they were drilled to ensure everything was lined up and spaced equally. 

 

Next up - Frame spacers - Either :- 22mm channel (but I would need to go buy some), Or, Turn some up on the lathe from brass rod, drilled and threaded internally (following my recent house move, the lathe is currently buried at the back of the garage, which has no power or lighting, and would need carrying into the house setting up) ?   Or,   M3 Threaded rod through a brass square section tube, which would be the quickest (it's on the desk in front of me !), but possibly, least accurate, option. 

 

Update later !

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by andi4x4

[andi4x4]

 

 

She stands on her own two feet !  😁

 

 

 Or should that be six wheels ? (well, only five actually as I broke the end off one of the axles whilst fitting a wheel ! 😯😪) 

 

Chassis cut out, spacers made, all bolted together. Axles are currently sitting in some 3/16" i/d x 1/4" o/d brass tube I had knocking around, but seem to run freely. Sits flat and square on the track and my slotcar setup plate (which is flat) so very pleased so far.  Still got lots to do yet,  have to shape the chassis and trim about 5mm off the bottom (maybe), make the body mounting plates, fit motor and gearbox, dig out my supply of paxolin board to make a mounting plate for the centre rail collector, finish the coupling rods, decide whether to leave the boiler fittings brass, or paint them black, order an new axle (or two !) and some crank pins and order the coupling for the front. Need to load it up with lead, too, as it's too light  to have any meaningful traction !

 

Oh, and Paint ! Chassis, buffer beams, wheels, etc.

 

Looks like she is standing too high, but, this image with a Hornby wagon as comparison says otherwise !

 

 

Chassis overall view. The tubes that the axles are sitting in run right across the chassis in one piece at the moment. Once the loco has been set up with the coupling rods fitted and everything is running smoothly, I shall cut them back to a more sensible size to reduce drag. I found using this method of creating bearings worked well for me in 16mm scale Narrow Gauge locos as it makes the job of setting the bearings in line much easier.

 

 

and a close up showing the frame spacers made with hollow square section brass and a M3 nut and bolt. These will probably be soldered up solid with the bolts removed and some 3mm brass rod soldered in their place, once everything has been set in place and all running smoothly, but, they are quite secure as they are now, with no frame flex or other movement, just ugly bolts ! The whole chassis has come together much better than I expected, so far, as everything has been made with just hand tools and a hand held cordless drill.

 

 

More to come when some more work has been done !

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by andi4x4

[Nearholmer]

That’s really good progress.

 

The height illusion might be because the frames are so deep.

[Simond]

And rather obviously brass-coloured!

 

Interesting approach with the bearings. You’ll need to remove most of one tube to get the motor & gearbox in, but I’d suggest merely drilling a hole at the top of the other two, to get the oil in, I doubt very much whether there will be more friction as a result.

 

Best

Simon

[andi4x4]

Evenin' !

 

 

Brief update :-

 

Chassis torn down, frames bolted together again and the ends cut and shaped.  Still haven't decided if I should take 5mm off the bottom or not - it is not so noticeable behind the wheels now the ends are cut, and probably will be less noticeable still once painted.

 

We'll see.

 

Left is rear of loco.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by andi4x4

[andi4x4]

Evenin' All !

Update on the pannier....Fair bit has gone on since the last update,

   Frames did eventually get 5mm removed from the bottom edge and look much better for it, I feel. Chassis has now been soldered up solid and the ugly bolts removed, but, I have yet to fill the holes the bolts left behind. The rear axle tube has been cut and filed back to allow the motor/gearbox assembly to slot in. Front and centre axle tubes have not yet been cut - undecided on that as yet, might just drill a small hole for oiling. Still pondering on that one. You will notice that the motor sits vertically at the back of the chassis - this will place it inside the cab, as such, motor and flywheel will get a coat or two of Matt Black to hide it a little, and possibly a cab crew will take up residence to conceal it further ! Having the motor in the cab will give me plenty of space within the chassis and body to fit some extra weight to improve traction and still retain that 'view under the boiler' !

   I didn't give much thought to how I was going to secure the body to the chassis when I drilled the mounting holes for the couplings. This left me with a slight problem in that the couplings were located where the chassis mountings needed to be !  The solution was to mount the body screws through both the chassis and the coupling - in effect, the coupling sits on a very short piece of tube, slightly longer than the thickness of the coupling, therefore trapping it in place between body and chassis, but loose enough to allow the coupling to pivot freely side to side.

   Connecting rods have been cut to length, but, still need shaping. Everything seems to run smoothly when power is applied to the motor, which has pleased me no end ! In the past, I have had no end of trouble getting finescale kits to run smooth, and is one reason why I gave up with finescale, so for this to run so well at the first try really made my day ! 😃😃😃

   The ACE centre rail collector I have is too tall to fit under the loco - it is a coach lighting one and is meant to sit into the top of a coach bogie which is much further away from the rails than the bottom of a loco - so - I made one up. I had a couple of reproduction spoons for the french Serie Hornby locos, so these each got a home made mounting cobbled together and soldered to a length of copper clad board which sits much better below the loco. It also places the pickups between the wheels and makes them less obvious to the viewer. It needs some tidying up prior to final fitting, and will be painted black along with the chassis to conceal it a little. The ACE collector will go into the 'Parts For Future Projects' box !

   I have also 'acquired' amongst a small collection of 'bits' purchased recently a pair of vac pipes and pair of tank fillers, so these will get fitted - just to add a little detail !

Piccie Time !

More to come soon once a bit more has been done. I have some video of the chassis running on blocks, but, will post a link to that once I have uploaded it to YouTube.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by andi4x4

[Nearholmer]

Progressing very nicely!

Where did you get the spoons from? I ask, because I need to make-up a lBL/Ace style loco spoon assembly myself, having been unable to obtain one as a spare part.

[andi4x4]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Progressing very nicely!

Where did you get the spoons from? I ask, because I need to make-up a lBL/Ace style loco spoon assembly myself, having been unable to obtain one as a spare part.

HI Kevin,

 

I got them off a seller on ebay,  Progprods,  I think, but they have none listed at the mo.  I think there is a seller in the HRCA Spares Directory that does them.

 

 

[Metropolitan H]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Progressing very nicely!

Where did you get the spoons from? I ask, because I need to make-up a lBL/Ace style loco spoon assembly myself, having been unable to obtain one as a spare part.

K,

I have an available pick-up set - come AND TALK.

Chris H

[andi4x4]

Finally found the mojo (Thanks Nearholmer !) to get some more done on this pannier.  Will put some pics and video up later, but, chassis is now finished, apart from paint, with a removable block of weight added to give it some it some traction.  Removable as it gives access to the guts of the chassis and running gear.  Body is still awaiting decals and clearcoat, but, has had the brasswork refitted for the time being.

 

A circle of track has been thrown down on the floor in the basement and some laps have been completed with two Hornby bogie coaches in tow - it seems to pull these quite effortlessly so traction trials will take place later this evening to see just what this little loco can pull !

 

watch this space !

 

 

[andi4x4]

Some pictures, as promised, of the loco as it stands this evening, and a couple of 30 second videos showing load capacity - second vid shows the loco struggling with a lack of torque from the cheap generic 1833 motor, that said, it is pulling a lot of weight around  38 inch radius on an uneven floor. Probably also worth noting that most of the rolling stock shown was purchased and put away into storage with little more than cursory glance to make sure it met the eBay description, none was checked for free-running prior to going into the train !!

 

Vids-  

 

 

 

 

 

Photies - Excuse the tape on the flywheel - temporary measure until I get around to painting the chassis..... Having now seen the photos on the laptop screen, I can see I have some more work to do on the paintwork before I can even think about decals and clearcoat ! 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by andi4x4