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A Wiltshire Carriage Works


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1 hour ago, queensquare said:

I bought a load of little magnets a year or so ago for another project and after searching round all over ebay eventually made my choice - they worked out at fractions of a penny each. When they arrived I was shocked to discover they came all the way from Melksham, a couple of miles up the road!!

 

Jerry

Do they accept personal callers Jerry?   If I'd known I could have saved on postage.

 

regards

 

John

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Not a lot has happened in the carriage works this week, real life in its many forms has got in the way.   I missed a bit of a trick, the nice weather the last couple of days was an opportunity to get some primer on coach bodies that was not taken!   I have, however, taken delivery of 100 tiny magnets and started considering how best to mount them and the necessary pieces of steel.   But where to source the required steel?   Steel shim in thicknesses from as little as 2 or 3 thou to whatever you want is available if you want several meters of it and are willing to pay a not inconsiderable sum of money!   There is a place in Bath where, in the past, I have obtained offcuts of thin aluminium and brass but they have not dealt in steel shim for some years.   So, I started turning out the garage.   Good move, as my other half thought I was tidying it up!   Sorting through an old toolbox I came across a couple of sets of feeler gauges.   Now I have not needed these since I last had a BMC 'A' series engine (over 40 years ago) and no way am I going anywhere near the current car with them!   Re-purposing is under way, particularly the 6 - 11 thou range.   I think, eventually, there will be a use for the thinner ones as overlays on brass/nickel silver or plastic.

 

As I have discovered, retro-fitting to already assembled body carcasses is not easy.   Using Nick Mitchell's method, outlined on here a few days ago, I have fitted the magnets to the roof moulding without problem, but soldering the steel plate to the end of the body is a bit of a contortionist's nightmare, trying to get the soldering iron in between the sides and attack the joint at the same time holding the steel squarely in contact and not damaging the alarm gear and lamp irons on the outside of the ends.   I think I may try forming a small bracket from etch waste, solder that to the end and then solder a strip of steel on top of that - it may end up easier.   The brake ends are also going to be an issue because of the end windows that will need to be glazed - the glazing (hopefully) fits in the inner end sitting on a ledge created by the cosmetic overlay.   I will post a couple of pictures of what I mean when I reach that stage with the next brake coach I build which, after all the discussion of it on this and another thread, could well be a Thompson D361 BT, being now in possession of some Thompson pattern buffers!

 

Regards

 

John

 

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On 07/02/2019 at 23:13, RoyBremner said:

There's a colour photo of a Thompson 5 compartment BT in Welch's Somerset & Dorset Sunset (p79). Unfortunately the brake portion is obscured by the shadow of Rock Cutting Bridge. The BT has what I think is a 64' Mk1 non-corridor composite for company: the difference in length must have made them appear rather an odd couple.

 

 

If it's the same photo I have seen, the other coach could be a BR Mk1 but I reckon it could also have been a Hawksworth 63' non-corridor.  These appear in a number of other photos on the S&D in its final years.

 

Chris

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I see what you mean, Chris: it's hard to tell. But I think you'd be able to see more of the truss if it was a Hawksworth.

 

There are other photos that show the Thompson + Mk1 combination (e.g. photo 229 in the third of Ivo Peters' Somerset and Dorset in the Fifties/Sixties books). There's also "A Branch Line Railway" where John Betjeman travelled from Evercreech Jn to Highbridge in 1963 (available on iPlayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03495yn/lets-imagine-a-branch-line-railway-with-john-betjeman). Betjeman starts out in a B-set ("1st class because I'm on expenses") but about 8.5 minutes in the train changes to a Thompson Brake 3rd and a Mk1 composite (W41047). 

 

Roy

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On 16/02/2019 at 17:05, RoyBremner said:

I see what you mean, Chris: it's hard to tell. But I think you'd be able to see more of the truss if it was a Hawksworth.

 

There are other photos that show the Thompson + Mk1 combination (e.g. photo 229 in the third of Ivo Peters' Somerset and Dorset in the Fifties/Sixties books). There's also "A Branch Line Railway" where John Betjeman travelled from Evercreech Jn to Highbridge in 1963 (available on iPlayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03495yn/lets-imagine-a-branch-line-railway-with-john-betjeman). Betjeman starts out in a B-set ("1st class because I'm on expenses") but about 8.5 minutes in the train changes to a Thompson Brake 3rd and a Mk1 composite (W41047). 

 

Roy

 

I can't access iplayer from outside the UK but will take your word for it! Based on this, I will supply Jerry with a BR 64'NC composite and trust that he will number it correctly.

 

Perhaps you can tell us the numbers of the B-Set as well so he does not make a mistake with that.

 

Chris 

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4 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

I can't access iplayer from outside the UK but will take your word for it! Based on this, I will supply Jerry with a BR 64'NC composite and trust that he will number it correctly.

 

Perhaps you can tell us the numbers of the B-Set as well so he does not make a mistake with that.

 

Chris 

 

Its on Youtube Chris.

I shall have to build a little SDJ branch layout now!

 

cheers Jerry

 

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5 hours ago, queensquare said:

Correct coaches, now correct numbers - first time for everything!:)

 

Jerry

 

 

Don't worry too much about the correct numbers for the B-Set, there are in fact two on the film. A classic Collett E140/E145 pair, and a Hawksworth E157 set.

 

Chris

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What with visits to snowdrop plantations (I am the taxi driver) and car service and MOT, not a lot of actual modelling has been done over the last few days.   The D361 BT has arrived on the bench and a start has been made, but there is not enough progress yet to post any pictures.

 

However, following all the discussion about ‘wandering’ Thompsons, I think I may have found another to add to the D361 on the Highbridge branch and the D340s on the Culm Valley.   In the latest issue of ‘Backtrack’ there is an article on the M&SWJR and one of the photos is of 75029 arriving at Swindon Town in 1960 with a two coach train.   The rearmost is definitely a long underframe Mk 1 NC Third (or would it be second by then?) while the front carriage looks suspiciously like a Thompson D360 2+4 Brake Composite.   How many more escaped?   Were ER not treating them right?   Or were they just so good that everyone had to have one?

 

Regards

 

John

 

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12 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

What with visits to snowdrop plantations (I am the taxi driver) and car service and MOT, not a lot of actual modelling has been done over the last few days.   The D361 BT has arrived on the bench and a start has been made, but there is not enough progress yet to post any pictures.

 

However, following all the discussion about ‘wandering’ Thompsons, I think I may have found another to add to the D361 on the Highbridge branch and the D340s on the Culm Valley.   In the latest issue of ‘Backtrack’ there is an article on the M&SWJR and one of the photos is of 75029 arriving at Swindon Town in 1960 with a two coach train.   The rearmost is definitely a long underframe Mk 1 NC Third (or would it be second by then?) while the front carriage looks suspiciously like a Thompson D360 2+4 Brake Composite.   How many more escaped?   Were ER not treating them right?   Or were they just so good that everyone had to have one?

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

I think basically it was coaches that were still relatively new and hence in good condition, but surplus to requirements elsewhere. The long underframes Mk1s very soon were displaced by DMUs from what they were originally built for. The S&D was not going to be dieselised, because of its impending closure. The same must have appled to the M&SWJR.

 

Chris 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Carriage Works has seen little activity over the last couple of weeks thanks to matters domestic.   There has been SOME progress!   The Thompson Diag 361 BT has very nearly made it to the paint shop queue:

 

DSC00995-1.jpg.98c2396b98ba44e5fc9cfe70d560016a.jpg

 

Just a couple of little bits to do, adding the alarm gear to the compartment end, adding vac pipes and the horizontal guards' handrails - they were left off until now due to the proximity to the end and the shape (they go vertical very slightly before going horizontal and every attempt so far has seen the vertical bit being way to big!).

 

That paint shop queue is getting quite long waiting for suitable weather to get the spray equipment out and I'm getting impatient, so much so that I attempted to brush paint one of my earliest builds (and thus not one of the best).   I am not overly happy with it and it may be stripped!

DSC00993-1.jpg.2c698136ec59be6d18340d2fac8cce8c.jpg

 

Not too bad from a distance although the guards handrails are bit tar like and need attention.   I think with panelled stock and a lot of care I might get away with it, but no way on flush sided stock.

 

What is clear is that, if I want to have any in lined maroon, I will have to change my construction order.   With the grab handles in place, lining is almost impossible as it goes underneath them.   If they are fitted after painting I am not going to be able to solder them or smooth down the inside to fit glazing.   It seems to me that I am going to need to prepare and pre-drill the glazing using the sides as a template so that I don't need to drill once it's fitted.  With the needed holes so close to the bottom edge of the glazing it's going to be a certainty that it gets pushed in!    Any thoughts anyone?

 

In the meantime I have become the proud possessor of half a dozen Masterclass kits for Gresley gangwayed stock.   They are 1:148 rather than 1:152 but, hey, gangwayed and NG rarely, if ever, ran together.   At this moment I haven't decided which one to start first or even if I frame the etches and hang them on the wall!  Much research is needed on paint schemes - I have seen the lining in about three different positions!   Before then I have to work out how the ends and sides relate on the corners.   Be grateful for any advice.

 

Regards to all.

 

John

 

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I don't know what gauge wire you use for handrails etc but a couple of coats of paint can make them appear rather thick. I was advised to use 009" thou (0.23mm approx) plain steel guitar wire which does help quite a bit.  Although finer than the holes made by even a 0.3mm drill a bit of solder with phosphoric flux soon fixes them securely in place. Any excess length does need filing off with a diamond file, as you can't cut the wire, just break it with bending, but a cheap one will do the job. 

 

Izzy

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5 hours ago, Izzy said:

I don't know what gauge wire you use for handrails etc but a couple of coats of paint can make them appear rather thick. I was advised to use 009" thou (0.23mm approx) plain steel guitar wire which does help quite a bit.  Although finer than the holes made by even a 0.3mm drill a bit of solder with phosphoric flux soon fixes them securely in place. Any excess length does need filing off with a diamond file, as you can't cut the wire, just break it with bending, but a cheap one will do the job. 

 

Izzy

Hi Izzy

 

I’m currently using 0.33mm straight brass wire which is possibly a little over scale.  I’ve now got hold of some 0.245mm nickel silver wire and will give that a go, along with some chemical blackening agent instead of paint.  When (if) I attempt some lined stock the handles and rails will have to in last, probably using gel cyano.

 

Regards

 

John

 

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55 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

Re holes near the bottom of the glazing. Rather than drill holes, cut inverted V-shaped nicks in the glazing? 

 

Jim 

I had considered that Jim, but the top mounting is so close to the corner of the window that I’m not sure I could get the nick accurate enough to not show.   If I pre drill the glazing I can use a couple of pieces of wire to make sure it is in the right place when I glue it in (much the same way as I do with the lower panelling overlay to make sure it’s properly lined up) so that the holes all line up for fitting the handles.

 

Regards

 

John

 

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1 hour ago, Doncaster Green said:

Hi Izzy

 

I’m currently using 0.33mm straight brass wire which is possibly a little over scale.  I’ve now got hold of some 0.245mm nickel silver wire and will give that a go, along with some chemical blackening agent instead of paint.  When (if) I attempt some lined stock the handles and rails will have to in last, probably using gel cyano.

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

The nickel silver will probably prove to be quite prone to kinking, the guitar wire would be more robust.

 

Chris

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22 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

The nickel silver will probably prove to be quite prone to kinking, the guitar wire would be more robust.

 

Chris

Hi Chris

 

Between you, you and Izzy have persuaded me to have a go with the guitar wire but which string is it?  The only thing I know about guitars is that Clapton plays one rather well!

 

John

 

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6 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

Hi Chris

 

Between you, you and Izzy have persuaded me to have a go with the guitar wire but which string is it?  The only thing I know about guitars is that Clapton plays one rather well!

 

John

 

 

Its top E, you can get them anywhere between about 8 and 12 thou so you will need to specify. I like a 10 or 11 on my acoustic, lighter on the electric.

 

jerry

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I get mine from stringsdirect. Elixir anti-rust plain steel 009” @£1.39 a pack. A few packs will last a while. I get half dozen at a time to make it worth the effort.The firm are very quick.

 

Izzy

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I get mine from stringsdirect. Elixir anti-rust plain steel 009” @£1.39 a pack. A few packs will last a while. I get half dozen at a time to make it worth the effort.The firm are very quick.

 

Izzy

 

 

 

Music shops are like model shops, use them or loose them.

 

Jerry

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On 17/03/2019 at 23:30, queensquare said:

 

Its top E, you can get them anywhere between about 8 and 12 thou so you will need to specify. I like a 10 or 11 on my acoustic, lighter on the electric.

 

jerry

 

Or just buy a complete set. The various diameters may well come in use later on.

 

Chris

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all

 

It's been a month since I posted anything, mainly because there has been no progress worth posting.   I have been setting my mind to several different areas where answers are needed to questions but I am not sure I am asking the right question!   I am pretty sure I am suffering from that ailment discussed on one of Jerry Clifford's threads a few weeks ago, Paralysis by Analysis.

 

I have been considering the livery for when (if) I get round to the painting.   If crimson, by 1957 is the lettering off-white, yellow or gold so I can order some decals?   If Maroon is the lettering yellow gold or old gold ?   So I Google 'BR coach livery 1956-1960' and, guess what, I get a picture of THAT bus!   Everybody says 'Google is your friend' - obviously not here!   Can anyone here point me in the right direction or is it a case of use any, the BR workshops did.

 

Similarly, I was casting around for guidance on the number of battery boxes on gangwayed stock, was it one or one each side or did it vary with the diagram.   I know the catering stock had some weird and wonderful combinations depending on the type of cooking, etc. equipment and photographs are essential, but ordinary passenger stock appears to have one long box each side, or have I just been unlucky that every picture is of the side with the box?   I then got completely confused when I came across a build thread for a NG twin in 7mm.   He was fitting boxes on both sides when all the evidence I have was showing only one and that is all I have fitted to NG stock.   There was some discussion of early underframes having two, one being charged while the other was in use but I can find no evidence of this.   The suggestion was that by Thompson's time there was definitely only one.   But then the underframe drawing I have in Harris's brown book, captioned as a standard 51', only shows one.   When I looked carefully at some of the dimensions on the drawing it can't be a 51' underframe as it shows 52' between headstocks and 36' bogie centres - the dimensions of a Thompson underframe!

 

Can anyone help me with my angst?

 

John - confused and bewildered in Wiltshire.

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John,

 

Have you looked at the Comet Models website? Go to the section on LNER coaches and there is a series of very useful downloads (on the right hand side of the listings) which give details of underframe arrangements, roof vent arrangements and other useful bits and pieces for the various kits in the Comet range (which includes various corridor and non-corridor coaches). Not all types are listed, but it might be of some help perhaps.

 

Andy

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