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Doncaster Green
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Thanks for that Andy.   Some time ago I did download their coach construction leaflet but I couldn't remember anything else on the site.   I started to have a look using my iPad but the site was coming up as unsecured and I couldn't see very much or download anything.   I presume this is because it isn't being maintained since Wizard took the range on.   I've now tried on the W10 laptop and I can actually see everything and see what you talked about - a wealth of information - many thanks.

 

Regards

 

John

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19 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

Hi all

 

It's been a month since I posted anything, mainly because there has been no progress worth posting.   I have been setting my mind to several different areas where answers are needed to questions but I am not sure I am asking the right question!   I am pretty sure I am suffering from that ailment discussed on one of Jerry Clifford's threads a few weeks ago, Paralysis by Analysis.

 

I have been considering the livery for when (if) I get round to the painting.   If crimson, by 1957 is the lettering off-white, yellow or gold so I can order some decals?   If Maroon is the lettering yellow gold or old gold ?   So I Google 'BR coach livery 1956-1960' and, guess what, I get a picture of THAT bus!   Everybody says 'Google is your friend' - obviously not here!   Can anyone here point me in the right direction or is it a case of use any, the BR workshops did.

 

Similarly, I was casting around for guidance on the number of battery boxes on gangwayed stock, was it one or one each side or did it vary with the diagram.   I know the catering stock had some weird and wonderful combinations depending on the type of cooking, etc. equipment and photographs are essential, but ordinary passenger stock appears to have one long box each side, or have I just been unlucky that every picture is of the side with the box?   I then got completely confused when I came across a build thread for a NG twin in 7mm.   He was fitting boxes on both sides when all the evidence I have was showing only one and that is all I have fitted to NG stock.   There was some discussion of early underframes having two, one being charged while the other was in use but I can find no evidence of this.   The suggestion was that by Thompson's time there was definitely only one.   But then the underframe drawing I have in Harris's brown book, captioned as a standard 51', only shows one.   When I looked carefully at some of the dimensions on the drawing it can't be a 51' underframe as it shows 52' between headstocks and 36' bogie centres - the dimensions of a Thompson underframe!

 

Can anyone help me with my angst?

 

John - confused and bewildered in Wiltshire.

 

I think that corridor Gresleys had one battery box each side. At least my 4mm Hornby ones all do! The battery box style changed over time though.

 

The underframe in the Harris book is a Thompson.

 

Chris

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Hi Chris.   Thanks, you are confirming what photographs and the old Comet website are telling me.  Interestingly, Thompson corridor stock only had one when built although BR seem to have added an additional half length box at some point.   I do begin to think that, for all their apparent simplicity, coaches are almost as big a minefield as locomotives!

 

Regards

 

John

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  • 1 year later...

Hi there everyone!

 

I can't believe it is so long ago that I posted anything to this thread, but, for a variety of reasons of which the current pandemic is just one, not a lot has been happening.   I have, very recently, got back enough time and enthusiasm to actually do something apart from dream of what I would like to do.   The results have been encouraging and the first couple are posted below.   However, previous construction is still managing to run for every dark corner when paint is mentioned!

 

First up is a Dia 107/108 artic twin ( 4 Comp BT + Lav composite (although by my timeframe this was declassified))DSC01378.JPG.a913f08ad53e3b7bc7ddde7e3b5f9854.JPG

 

Forgive the lack of wheels, it's taken its shoes to have a soothing bath in the ultrasonic cleaner.   There are a couple of adjustments to do first; I'm not overly happy with the guard's handrails and may redo them and the inner end of the BT needs some attention to the joints between the sides and end.  Also, forgive the scrappy piece of plywood doing duty as a soldering mat.

 

Up second is a Dia 27 end door open third:

 

DSC01380.JPG.00f29718b29821391a277970efd6b0bf.JPG

 

I haven't yet decided which flavour of D27 it is, A, B or C, the interior fit varies between 2+1 and 2+2 seating.   I presume the 2+1 was for use as a 3rd Diner when used in conjunction with Restaurant and Kitchen cars.   This coach is giving me a couple of problems.   First is the distinctive roof mounted alarm gear.

 

DSC01381.JPG.e6e42b73140c5d7eeb55e34863f8bdc4.JPG

 

Apart from one side sitting up a bit I think the combination of thin wire and bits of insulation works although the downpipe needs a bit of thought - perhaps a couple of handrail knobs alongside the gangway connection - it can't be fixed just in case the roof needs to come off.   A bit of fettling of the ends to seat the roof properly won't go amiss either - I didn't realise the gap was that big!   The other issue is the gangway connection, for which I have an idea but need to build another coach to test it.   It would be interesting to see how its done on Copenhagen Fields, most of the commercial offerings rely on Dapol or Farish mouldings are in place.

 

Hopefully more will follow shortly.

 

Regards to all

 

John

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Progress has been made!   One coach proved unable to run as fast as the others and was caught and consigned to the paint shop.   Due to my current lack of facilities for any sort of spraying (the workshop/spare bedroom is prepared for some replastering but because of lockdown that hasn't happened yet) the subject was hand painted using Humbrol and Railmatch acrylics.   The subject is a Diag 50 Semi Corridor Lavatory Composite:

 

DSC01385-1.jpg.377bf938a48d882c451f01672eb4f7c0.jpg

The 1st class corridor side

 

DSC01386-1.jpg.eb4899237c93b1de341263826b445caf.jpg

3rd class corridor side

 

The camera is cruel, but refinement is necessary:

 

Put the roof on the right way round!  (Didn't notice that until I downloaded the picture)

A couple of blemishes need touching up

Weathering - the finish is too stark, particularly the underframe

Some fettling required to seat the roof properly, should have done that before I painted it!

 

As a matter of interest, this is the interior - plastic card and homebrew printed labels:

 

DSC01388-1.jpg.c0cd31dfa400fbe26c2d3740053ad534.jpg

 

One down, eleven more to go plus three currently under construction.   Hopefully my ability will improve as I go along!

 

Regards to all

 

John

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Hi Nigel

 

I will post a picture but it won’t be until Wednesday.  It is very unsophisticated, a 12BA bolt central on the bogie stretcher held by one nut with another nut to adjust the ride height, but, on the limited track run I have, it appears to work!   The mountings on the underframes are stepped so that the connection is level.  Once the height is correct both nuts are locked with solder for the bottom one and some thread lock for the top one.   The dome shape of the top nut seems to give just enough rock and roll to account for my track laying!

 

Regards

 

John

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Work continues, if not necessarily apace!   The suspended animation of the plastering work means I have to take over facilities not normally permitted as modelling zones for the undertaking of soldering, filing, etc.   This in turn means Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings only when Senior Management is away at dialysis.

 

Anyway, I promised Nig H I would post pictures of the articulation method for the twins.   As I said in my previous post it is very unsophisticated and at this point I will don my tin hat and attempt to avoid incoming!

 

DSC01394-1.jpg.1362ec120249f2fe004a10df1941c156.jpg

 

The pivot is a simple 12BA bolt locked in place by a nut.  The stretcher has a 10BA clearance hole etched in it but the slightly domed shape of the nut appears to be sufficient to ensure the bolt is correctly centred.   Adjustment of the top nut sets the ride height and, again, the domed shape provides just enough rock and roll to cater for slightly wonky track.   The nuts on this unit have not been locked yet.

 

DSC01393-1.jpg.cd31d10f412223a27aeb93abe1ed9daa.jpg

 

I think you can just about see in this shot that the links are stepped and sit one on top of the other.   The holes have been reamed to just smooth clearance for 12BA - just enough to swing freely without any appreciable slop.   (I must attend to that very nasty join between side and end on the left hand coach before I go any further).

 

DSC01395-1.jpg.c13a751e38c285393ecf27928dc404e2.jpg

 

In this shot I think you can just about see how the links sit on top of the upper nut.   There is just enough clearance for the coaches to swing without the nut coming into contact with the headstocks.   They are very close together but  testing has shown they will negotiate  a 2ft radius taken gently.  Once everything is properly set-up the bolt will be shortened.

 

As I said, very unsophisticated.   There are probably better ways but it does seem to work for small layouts.   Whether its up to something akin to 'Copenhagen Fields' is another matter.

 

John

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32 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

Work continues, if not necessarily apace!   The suspended animation of the plastering work means I have to take over facilities not normally permitted as modelling zones for the undertaking of soldering, filing, etc.   This in turn means Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings only when Senior Management is away at dialysis.

 

Anyway, I promised Nig H I would post pictures of the articulation method for the twins.   As I said in my previous post it is very unsophisticated and at this point I will don my tin hat and attempt to avoid incoming!

 

DSC01394-1.jpg.1362ec120249f2fe004a10df1941c156.jpg

 

The pivot is a simple 12BA bolt locked in place by a nut.  The stretcher has a 10BA clearance hole etched in it but the slightly domed shape of the nut appears to be sufficient to ensure the bolt is correctly centred.   Adjustment of the top nut sets the ride height and, again, the domed shape provides just enough rock and roll to cater for slightly wonky track.   The nuts on this unit have not been locked yet.

 

DSC01393-1.jpg.cd31d10f412223a27aeb93abe1ed9daa.jpg

 

I think you can just about see in this shot that the links are stepped and sit one on top of the other.   The holes have been reamed to just smooth clearance for 12BA - just enough to swing freely without any appreciable slop.   (I must attend to that very nasty join between side and end on the left hand coach before I go any further).

 

DSC01395-1.jpg.c13a751e38c285393ecf27928dc404e2.jpg

 

In this shot I think you can just about see how the links sit on top of the upper nut.   There is just enough clearance for the coaches to swing without the nut coming into contact with the headstocks.   They are very close together but  testing has shown they will negotiate  a 2ft radius taken gently.  Once everything is properly set-up the bolt will be shortened.

 

As I said, very unsophisticated.   There are probably better ways but it does seem to work for small layouts.   Whether its up to something akin to 'Copenhagen Fields' is another matter.

 

John

 

This is as I had intended in the design and the two coaches should be stable when supported at two points by the outer bogies to give 3-point support. Needless to say if building a Quad you would need something more to handle the two inner coaches.

 

Chris

 

 

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Thanks Chris, it certainly does seem to be stable when all three bogies are on.   I was a bit dubious about using a 12BA bolt in a 10BA hole but the shape of the nut does seem to centre it properly.  I toyed with the idea of turning down a 10 BA bolt using a mini drill and files but realised I would lose the ability to adjust the ride height and might run into problems with clearance.

 

I like the idea of having a go at a quad but they don't suit my prototype.   Of course, my real love would be the twins and triplets from the Coronation and Silver Jubilee and the restaurant sets.   Or, how about the Leeds Quin dining set?   I see Worsley Works are offering the streamline sets but only in 4mm and complete sets.   What chances of them doing a few in 2mm?

 

John

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17 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

I see Worsley Works are offering the streamline sets but only in 4mm and complete sets.   What chances of them doing a few in 2mm?

 

The website says that the artwork can be used to produce their kits in any scale - email Allen and find out if he'll produce some for you.

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13 minutes ago, Nick Mitchell said:

 

The website says that the artwork can be used to produce their kits in any scale - email Allen and find out if he'll produce some for you.

I may do just that Nick!   Although, I’ve just thought about bogies.  The streamline sets had 10 ft HD which I don’t think anybody does.  Can I get away with bogies 3mm short?  Possibly, who but an anorak like like me would know or even be able to tell?

 

John

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22 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

Work continues, if not necessarily apace!   The suspended animation of the plastering work means I have to take over facilities not normally permitted as modelling zones for the undertaking of soldering, filing, etc.   This in turn means Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings only when Senior Management is away at dialysis.

 

Anyway, I promised Nig H I would post pictures of the articulation method for the twins.   As I said in my previous post it is very unsophisticated and at this point I will don my tin hat and attempt to avoid incoming!

 

 

 

The pivot is a simple 12BA bolt locked in place by a nut.  The stretcher has a 10BA clearance hole etched in it but the slightly domed shape of the nut appears to be sufficient to ensure the bolt is correctly centred.   Adjustment of the top nut sets the ride height and, again, the domed shape provides just enough rock and roll to cater for slightly wonky track.   The nuts on this unit have not been locked yet.

 

 

 

I think you can just about see in this shot that the links are stepped and sit one on top of the other.   The holes have been reamed to just smooth clearance for 12BA - just enough to swing freely without any appreciable slop.   (I must attend to that very nasty join between side and end on the left hand coach before I go any further).

 

 

 

In this shot I think you can just about see how the links sit on top of the upper nut.   There is just enough clearance for the coaches to swing without the nut coming into contact with the headstocks.   They are very close together but  testing has shown they will negotiate  a 2ft radius taken gently.  Once everything is properly set-up the bolt will be shortened.

 

As I said, very unsophisticated.   There are probably better ways but it does seem to work for small layouts.   Whether its up to something akin to 'Copenhagen Fields' is another matter.

 

John

Hello John,

 

Thanks for the explanation - very useful.

 

Nigel Hunt

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20 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said:

 

The website says that the artwork can be used to produce their kits in any scale - email Allen and find out if he'll produce some for you.

Website also says Silver Jubilee is available in N gauge (so presumably 1:148) for 92 quid.  I'd imagine a 2mm (ie 1:152.4) wouldn't be much different in price.  Must finish some other projects first however or The Boss will get stroppy.

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20 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

I may do just that Nick!   Although, I’ve just thought about bogies.  The streamline sets had 10 ft HD which I don’t think anybody does.  Can I get away with bogies 3mm short?  Possibly, who but an anorak like like me would know or even be able to tell?

 

John

 

I presume you mean this one? etched a few for my own use as they ran under some Pullmans later. 

 

Chris503902915_LNER10ftbogie016.jpg.65647edd5024cc0997c695f10eb263e3.jpg

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1 hour ago, Sithlord75 said:

Website also says Silver Jubilee is available in N gauge (so presumably 1:148) for 92 quid.  I'd imagine a 2mm (ie 1:152.4) wouldn't be much different in price.  Must finish some other projects first however or The Boss will get stroppy.

 

Tim Watson had some sets done in stainless steel in the past, reduced from 4mm by D&S (I think). And you used to be able to get them from Bill Bedford.

 

Don't forget you still have to deal with the roof somehow. Domed at one end only.

 

Chris

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4 hours ago, Sithlord75 said:

Website also says Silver Jubilee is available in N gauge (so presumably 1:148) for 92 quid.  I'd imagine a 2mm (ie 1:152.4) wouldn't be much different in price.  Must finish some other projects first however or The Boss will get stroppy.

 

3 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

I presume you mean this one? etched a few for my own use as they ran under some Pullmans later. 

 

Chris

3 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

 

Don't forget you still have to deal with the roof somehow. Domed at one end only.

 

Chris

 

Oooooh!   I'm beginning to feel a project coming on!

 

!:148 would suit as it would match the Masterclass Gresleys I'm building, Dapol Gresleys and the new Farish Thompsons - how about the mid 50's 'Lizzie' with the SJ Triplet diner in it?   I seem to recall the full 'Lizzie' set was detailed on Wright Writes, only have to find it.   Although, as you say Chris, there is the roof to deal with.   

Back in the 1990's, when I still dabbled in 4mm, I bought a full set of drawings for the Jubilee and the Coronation along with the Mailcoach kits - I wonder where I put them (the drawings - the kits never got fully built)?  I can see me turning out a lot of boxes very soon!   I imagine I will be buying a set of the Jubilee etches, enquiring about the Coronation in N and taking it from there.

 

John

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  • 1 month later...

The project I felt coming on has arrived!   I have in my grubby mitts a set of etches for the Silver Jubilee in N, courtesy (for a fee) of that nice man at Worsley,

 

Coach A+B - Brake 1st/1st Twin

DSC00044-1.jpg.a32d6ec3f925100dff7aef1815e5cabc.jpg

 

Coach C+Kitchen+Coach D - Restaurant Triple

DSC00045-1.jpg.52898b39ca8b94e8a2d3b3c142875edc.jpg

 

Coach E+F+G - 3rd/3rd/Brake 3rd Triple (1938 on)

DSC00046-1.jpg.1992055651fa08697a22eb738dbd0e29.jpg

 

This is going to be quite a long job.   The intention is to model the set as running in the mid to late 50s to suit the era of all my other builds.   At this time the Twin 1st and Triple 3rd were regulars in Scottish Fife coast workings.   There is a picture in Harris's book of these units in crimson and cream forming a Fife Coast Express behind a Scottish 'Director'.   They also seem to have worked between Newcastle and Glasgow - Harris has a picture of the Twin 1st in maroon at Newcastle.   The Restaurant Triple was a regular feature, again according to Harris, of the 8.00am up and 5.35 down Newcastle/KX service until at least 1960.

 

As, postwar, first the side skirts and then the fairings over the sole bars were removed, I will need to model all the underframe gubbins and I need to decide the best approach.   I much prefer to have body and underframe separate and on other Worsley etches I have used the underframe etch as a floor for the body and mounted the body on a Masterclass underframe   Unfortunately, the 55ft 4ins artic underframe isn't in the Masterclass range so I will either have to scratch build or learn how to do etch artwork.   As the underframe will also suit the Coronation Twins, Tourist stock twins, later steel panelled twins (the early ones used the 51ft artic underframe) and NG twins built for the East Midlands, Darlington/Saltburn and some Manchester services, I believe I will learn how to do the software.   There are a number of other requirements that would also be nice etched.   I'm thinking tables and seats plus some architectural bits for the layout project.

 

Roofs are a problem.   The later Thompson roof is the same profile but I don't see Farish spares being available any time soon and I have no desire to spend £40+ per coach to remove the roof and chop one end off!   Perhaps I need to learn resin casting as well as etch artwork.

 

Another potential issue is availability of LNER retracted clip top buffers.   Etched Pixels do a 3D printed version, and I do have some stock, but, from their website it looks as if they are out of circulation until at least April.   DCC supplies sell Dapol plastic ones as spares and it may be sensible to grab what I need while they have them.

 

These are my early thoughts.   I would welcome all and any comment or suggestion, even the accusation I must be mad!

 

John

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14 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

John,

 

These are meant to be built such that the chassis and body are separable. The T shaped part fits inside the ends and the floor (with the rest of the underframe) screws onto these attachment points at the ends of the body. 

 

Hi Rich

 

I agree that is how they are intended to be built.   However, after doing a couple that way, I found that, without a solid, full length floor to solder the sides to, the body was quite floppy and the joints between the ends and sides could easily give way.   By using the underframe etch as a floor I end up with a rigid box for the body which then bolts to the separate underframe.  The other justification for me is that having a floor separate to the underframe gives me something relatively solid to mount the interior on.

 

John

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34 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

I believe the roof is meant to form the other side of the box that makes the body. That doesn’t help you with a surface to add your interior to, mind. 

I like to keep the roof separate; that way I have the three main colour areas, underframe, body, roof, as individual units and avoid having too much masking to go wrong!  Plus, with a resin or plastic roof you are relying on glue rather than solder to give the box strength.

 

John

 

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I'll be getting some etches as soon as I replenish my modelling pocket money - just spent a whack on transfers (included the SJ ones) at Fox to convert an ebay bargin blue A4 into CofA.  I'll get the Corro set too if they are done by then so shall watch your build with great interest.

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  • 2 months later...

Now that the Christmas festivities are just about over, it is time for the Carriage Works Manager to issue his review of the year and the plans(?) for the next.

 

In reading this it may help to have a mental picture of old Arkwright standing in his shop doorway at closing time and looking wistfully up at Nurse Gladys' window!

 

It's been a funny old year.   It started brightly, the soldering iron being wielded to good effect and thoughts turning to Trainwest, Larkrail, RailWells, Steam Swindon and Warley and meeting friends and fellow modellers.   I had been persuaded that the workshop/office/4th bedroom could do with a lick of paint and I was going to take the opportunity to put up a couple more shelves to hold the boxes and boxes of Roundtoits.   It was at this point the year started on its downhill course!   The first approach of drill to wall and out came a chunk of plaster.   The resulting hole being rather too large for a dollop of filler, I consulted a passing plasterer of my acquaintance.  After much tapping, sucking of teeth and more tapping, he announced that the whole wall needed plastering, which, given experience with other outside walls, did not surprise me.  Not to worry, he could do the job on 25th March so away we went to empty the room completely.   I take everybody remembers what happened on 23rd March!   Suffice to say, the plastering was eventually completed in October and, to be honest, the room is still not really back together.

 

As my other half has to have dialysis treatment three times a week and is classed as clinically vulnerable, I had volunteered(?) to be her transport during lockdown to avoid the need for Non-Emergency ambulances and taxis.   Guess what, on 25th March (what was it about the 25th?), on the way to collect her from the clinic, the car's alternator failed!   Has anyone else tried to get a car repaired and hire a replacement in the middle of a pandemic?   Not very easy until you can persuade them you are an essential user!

 

During the warmer weather of June, July and August, I did manage to do some modelling using the garage bench and the dining room table as the posts above testify.   However, other half was getting stir crazy; she is used to days out at NT properties and weekends by the sea and was getting neither and I was the only one she could complain to (or is it at!).  Didn't do a lot for motivation!   Suffice to say the rest of the year from September on has been pretty much a write-off modelling wise.

 

So, what of 2021?   I'm not holding my breath, yet.   However there are some intentions (not as firm as plans).   There are a number of Gresley NG artics to build (I'm getting reasonably good at them) along with some single NG stock (Gresley and Thompson) and some Gresley gangwayed stock.   There are a lot of carriages to paint, so practice with the airbrush is (desperately) needed.

 

Being worried about is the Silver Jubilee stock.   I have sides, ends and floors and underframes are in process.   Roofs are the worry.   I have a couple of ideas short of resin or 3D but need a basic body box to try them out, but until I have the underframes and can sort the fixing points I daren't put the box together.   Perhaps I should just go ahead and put one together.   I can always take it apart again!

 

I have actually put together my first attempt at etch artwork (a sheet of windows for buildings on the project layout along with some bridge girders and a trial bay for the platform canopy).   This will be going to the etcher next week to assess whether it will work.   If everything is OK I have a whole raft of artwork almost ready to go.

 

As I said, these are intentions not plans and so allow for my specialist subject, procrastination.  I could have a PhD in that if I could actually decide to take the exam!

 

Hopefully some will come to pass.   I will keep you informed

 

Regards and all the best for, hopefully, a much better 2021!

 

John

 

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  • 2 months later...

I thought I would post this just to prove I am still here!   Although I hesitate:

 

DSC01433.jpg.a5cd7ce477ce2b2b9027d45df074038c.jpg

 

 

A Gresley Dia 107/108 Twin BT(4) + Composite Lavatory.  The transfers are a mix of Fox and Cambridge Custom, the latter providing two sheets of BR era numbers for quite a lot of Gresley/Thompson prototypes, both single and articulated.  The door handles are still to be fitted and the interior is yet to be done.  Also, I am not totally happy with the paint job - due to current workshop restrictions brushed rather than sprayed,  Perhaps a little bit of touching up (needed) and some light weathering may improve it.

 

In other news, the Silver Jubilee sets are still being procrastinated over but another artic (Dia 105/125) is under way and a couple of my early efforts (a pair of full thirds) are being revisited to improve some of my mistakes, like door vents not straight!

 

Regards for now

 

John

  

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