Barnstaple Town

[Compound2632]

It may have been but from a quick spot of googling I gather it is now an annex of North Devon's specialist school for children with high levels of SEN.

[runs as required]

On 02/02/2019 at 09:46, Edwardian said:

I confess that I have never been to Barnstaple and, indeed, may never go ...

 

What a splendid basis on which to creatively set forth on a project.   Comparisons might be made with Shakespeare and with the Gospel Writers.

• Can you not make that advantage an excuse to have 'side shows' (either in space or time) where the 3ft gauge takes on other seasonal plumage such as Compound's Leek & Manifold Barsi locos and their transporters - or some Irish 3 ft gauge extravaganzas.
   
• Why not also have a go at some Barnstaple buildings as an aside while finishing more humdrum aspects of CA - Could that neo Gothic public building facing onto the bridges feature?
  I'd love to see that emerge as 'an smooth' Victorian pastiche as a contrast to the knobbly Drill Hall in your oeuvre.

   dh

Edited February 4, 2019 by runs as required
typos

[Poggy1165]

I am intrigued by the legend "The Jakes" on the OS Map.

 

"Jakes" is a medieval/Tudor/Stuart word meaning Khazi, or as polite ppople say Loo.

 

I wonder if this location was at some time particularly noted for strong odours?

 

On a more serious note, this is an excellent idea for a project. I cannot but think the platform will need lots of detailing with barrows, baggage, milk churns, and of course, punters.

[cornamuse]

Very nice... very jealous of the new loco, but then I guess I’m building a layout to justify a little peckett, so I fully understand your need to create more Railway... 

 

 

[AdeMoore]

On 02/02/2019 at 09:59, Compound2632 said:

It may have been but from a quick spot of googling I gather it is now an annex of North Devon's specialist school for children with high levels of SEN.

Stephen Lea put me on to this excellent topic,

So you may see from my signature I’m planning a later edition of the very same station to include the Taw viaduct.

Nothing like the detailed level of modelling I see from your Castle Aching topic!

Great research here so far.

In answer to the quoted text above from my recent trip there the sign outside says, 6th Form Town Station Pathfield School Inspiring Interaction.

So no longer a pre School I suggest.

Here is a link to my saved photos, some in there of your era https://photos.app.goo.gl/s9qkHsAxGQyeWwk7A

Just to say my working was/is Barnstaple Quay but funny thing is I called it that not to be prototypical. I had no idea there once was a station there called that! 

Also of note Phil I think it was put me on to the Network Rail Media House where they hold a lot of archives, I’ve been in email contact with them as initially there was nothing they had uploaded of Barnstaple Town .

The kind people there found some plans and kindly uploaded them for me, well everyone as it’s a pay for service to get copies of said plans, link below.

https://nr.mediastorehouse.com/non-operational-railway/barnstaple-town-station

Hope that may be of interest Edwardian (do you have a name? Will be following this and Castle Aching with interest.

 Cheers 

Ade

 

 

[Edwardian]

Ade,

 

Thank you for your post and welcome to the Dark Side of RMWeb, the pre-Grouping section.  Actually it's quite colourful.

 

Thank you also for sharing your pictures.  Despite collecting an unconscionable number of pictures of Barnstaple Town, there are some there that are new to me, and your detailed pictures of the station building are invaluable.  I see that the original drawings of the station buildings, canopy and track plan are available for the Media Store, albeit pricey for large prints, so thanks for that also. 

 

I don't think I'll have enough real estate for the Taw Bridge, but I shall look forward to you tackling it.  Did you mange to come up with drawings for it?

 

My name is James, by the way.  I shall watch your progress with considerable interest and hope to see you on Castle Aching, but don't get too lost in the byways of rural Norfolk at the cost of your modelling! 

[AdeMoore]

Thanks for the kind words James.

I have not located any plans for Taw Bridge yet but a discussion here ,

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140979-girder-plate-viaduct-but-curved/

 

 

I will take the time to read through Castle Aching looks amazing from the 1st few pages I’ve read.

cheers

Ade

 

edited as wrong link inserted.

Edited February 26, 2019 by AdeMoore

[AdeMoore]

Oh forgot to add you can get those plans as a download for £15 maybe I’ll do that 15mb  so decent it would seem.

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Oh forgot to add you can get those plans as a download for £15 maybe I’ll do that 15mb  so decent it would seem.

 

a-duh!

[AdeMoore]

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

a-duh!

James not sure whether that’s aimed at my duff link of the Taw bridge discussion  (now amended) or the £15.00.

I’m guessing the later. I wouldn’t go for them all just one I think, the one of the Station I screenshot.

Its almost good enough to see zoomed in but not quite obviously I suppose.

 Cheers 

Ade

 

[Edwardian]

9 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

James not sure whether that’s aimed at my duff link of the Taw bridge discussion  (now amended) or the £15.00.

I’m guessing the later. I wouldn’t go for them all just one I think, the one of the Station I screenshot.

Its almost good enough to see zoomed in but not quite obviously I suppose.

 Cheers 

Ade

 

 

Ade, Self-criticism for not spotting the digital option when I followed your link earlier.

 

I was planning in due course to use the very detailed drawings in the Measured & Drawn volume, which I suspect is all I probably need for Barnstaple Town station, though looking at your detailed photographs of the building, I'd say these were essential to interpreting the drawings and capturing the look if the building.  Very grateful to you for sharing the photos; I have now been through them all properly; an invaluable resource indeed.

 

Quite a modelling challenge, especially the canopy, which I would have to do full-length, not cut back as in later years.  

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Edwardian

[AdeMoore]

23 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Ade, Self-criticism for not spotting the digital option when I followed your link earlier.

 

I was planning in due course to use the very detailed drawings in the Measured & Drawn volume, which I suspect is all I probably need for Barnstaple Town station, though looking at your detailed photographs of the building, I'd say these were essential to interpreting the drawings and capturing the look if the building.  Very grateful to you for sharing the photos; I have now been through them all properly; an invaluable resource indeed.

 

Quite a modelling challenge, especially the canopy, which I would have to do full-length, not cut back as in later years.  

 

 

Thanks for this James, I have seen this book referred to lots of times particularly on Damian’s topic 7mm Lynton & Barnstaple Railway Project; Currently Paused. I assumed from that it was all L&B, with Town being mixed I didn’t think it would of covered it.

So thanks for the heads up on the book trying  to find one 2nd hand reasonably priced Is going to be a task by the look of it. Second hand ones up for £65.00 when from the author direct New they are £65.00 mad.

Anyway I’m in no rush so I will keep my eyes peeled.

Thanks once again for the tip.

 Cheers 

Ade

 

[Edwardian]

I continue to plan for suitable motive power and stock for the SW side.  Today, my initial 'findings' on the subject of Adams's Jubilees.

 

To recapitulate, in the intended period of 1907-1914, the dominance of the Ilfracombe Goods 0-6-0 was over and the Drummond M7s had yet to make their mark.  The branch seems to have been in the hands of several T1 0-4-4Ts, the O2's big brothers. Other classes would visit, but, as we shall see, at the period in question, the options were quite limited.

 

I read yesterday that Drummond classes were not popular in the west at this time and, indeed, aside from the earlier Beyer-Beattie Ilfracombe Goods, all the suitable standard gauge locomotives are Adams classes.

 

The turntable at Ilfracombe was re-sited and enlarged considerably under the Southern, but in our period, it severely limited the types of locomotive that could be sent along the branch.  The original turntable was 40', and could only take an Ilfracombe Goods.  In 1895 a 42' table was in service. This was apparently still too small for the majority of Adams 4-4-0 classes; 460, T3 or X6.   Apparently, however, it could accommodate an A12 'Jubilee' 0-4-2 and a 380 'Steamroller'  4-4-0.

 

The A12 was a large class and a successful class, but was a significant side-step away from Adams's passenger and mixed traffic 4-coupled tender classes, which otherwise all had leading bogies: Early Adams 4-coupled bogie classes.  It came about because, as a busy passenger line, the LSWR had recourse to rostering 0-6-0 goods engines on passenger services, which was less than ideal. There was, thus, a need for a mixed traffic locomotive of universal route availability.  A 4-4-0 design having been rejected for branch line use by line’s Engineer, Adams conceived the 0-4-2 design, first introduced in the year of Queen Victoria’s Golden Jubilee, 1887.

 

Here is my A12.  It will not do, as it is in Adams livery.  I haven't the heart to change the livery, so I am planning a second to be out-shopped in Drummond livery.  The challenge is to identify a suitable candidate, but more of that later.   

 

 

 

The class entered service over the period 1887-1895.  There were several batches, although the first was the most distinctive.  It was fitted with screw reversers, as opposed to lever reversers and this seems to have resulted in a different style of reversing rod. Further, they were built without tenders, inheriting a number of different types. 

 

The model above is numbered as 612, which makes one of the 40 Neilson & Co locomotives entering service 1892-1893.  The other half of the class were built in stage at Nine Elms.  612 has a lever reverser and should be paired with a standard 3,300 gallon tender (as opposed to 3,000 gallons).  I hope it is!

 

There is only one photograph of an A12 on the Ilfracombe branch of which I am aware.  Unfortunately, we cannot see the number, the type of reversing rod or the tender! The picture is reproduced in Nicholas & Reeve's The North Devon Line, Irwell Press 2010,  copyright Paul Gower and reproduced here for research purposes. 

 

 

The photograph is one of the Francis Box series, all said to be taken in 1907.  Other Box photographs have presented dating problems.  One features a 2-coach branch set not in service until 1909-1910 and a couple feature T1 No. 363, also pictured in the London area around the time. The A12 picture above is said to date from 8th November 1907. She is in Drummond livery.  The problem here is that the brass beading to the splashers and sandbox has been removed, something that did not occur according to Bradley until sometime during the Great War.

 

So, which class member to choose?

 

No. 547, second Nine Elms series, was sent to Barnstaple in 1892.  But was she still there? She is pictured below in Drummond livery in 1902, but at Bournemouth, which does not seem very promising.  Note she seems to have an unusually short stovepipe chimney, which rather spoils her looks, in my view.   She is paired with a 348 class tender, which shows how treacherous the topic of A12 tenders must be. When out-shopped in 1889, the second series were built with standard 3,000 or 3,300 gallon Adams tenders.  Note how obvious the brass beading to the splashers and sandbox is in the picture below (copyright C H Eden, reproduced here for research purposes).

 

 

I am tending towards No. 545 as my choice.  According to RCTS Bradley, by early 1890, 545 had been transferred to Exmouth Junction, where she remained on local goods and passenger duties until well into WW1.  This places her as a potential visitor to the Ilfracombe branch throughout the period of interest.

 

She represents something of a challenge, however.  She was a Nine Elms first series, and has a rather different reversing rod. The first series' original built-up stovepipes were said to have been replaced by standard types in the 1890s, so no problem there. 

 

According to Big Bradley, she was the sole inheritor of a small Beyer tender. The only photograph I have seen of 545 (below, copyright J B N Ashford, reproduced here for research purposes) shows her with the small Beyer tender at Exmouth Junction in 1892.  The tenders of these first series locomotives had changed by Grouping.  I just don't know whether she ran with the Small Beyer tender during 1907-1914, or, even, at any time when in Drummond livery. 

 

 

So, a decision has to be made. The Nu Cast kit will be used.  This has the standard tender and I would, therefore, need to build either a Small Beyer or a 348 Class tender if depicting 545 or 547, assuming these were the right tenders at the time in question.

 

If, therefore, anyone can furnish any further and better particulars of A12s  relevant to this project, I would be very grateful.

 

Thanks again for the patience of anyone who has made it this far!

 

Post script.

 

Further reading took me to William Beattie's  unsuccessful 4-4-0 express type, the 348 class.   A number were rebuilt by Adams, but when these were scrapped between 1900 and 1910, the tenders went to A12s and 545 appears to have received one, as seen on the picture of 547 above.  I do not seem to have a drawing of this tender, however!

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Edwardian

[Regularity]

Nice modelling.

What happened to the firebox/ashpan, though?

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Nice modelling.

What happened to the firebox/ashpan, though?

 

I can only assume Dave Jones built it!

[Regularity]

Maybe they have literally dropped the fire?

 

Half a dozen pieces of plasticard and a lick of paint should fix it, though.

[Edwardian]

Just excavated this post for Sem, but this is my idea for a loco conversion for the Barnstaple Town so I'll include it here so I can find it again: 

 

Radial into Steamroller

 

[Compound2632]

@Edwardian, I saw this and thought of you:

 

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_MorthoeBraunton1889.pdf

 

2:54 pm up from Ilfracombe, 24 December 1889. Engine No. 394 - an Ilfracombe Goods, running with a 4-wheel tender. Meat Van No. 8148 (GW or LSW?); LSW brake third; GW composite; GW brake third.

 

 

[Edwardian]

Minor update, we now have an A12 for the project.

 

See C R Phillips.  The last two locos are mine.

 

Note the number plate on the T1 in question would have been a brass Drummond plate, not a red Adams plate.  Replaced by numerals in the condition represented. 

 

Likewise the A12, one of the Neilson series documented in the area in the Edwardian period (though not in the picture below), it has lost its splasher/sandbox beading and Neilson rear splasher works plate. 

 

 

 

I'd like to think it's this one:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

Slowly rumbling on in the background are the plans for Barnstaple Town

 

As I mentioned, recently an A12 Jubilee arrived.  One of only two 4-coupled tender classes that could operate on the Ilfracombe branch in the chosen period, I would like to run her at the head of a through train comprising a '4 and a half set'.  I'm not entirely sure when such sets were formed, but it's an attractive choice; four 48' non-corridor bogie carriages from the 1890s and a 6-wheel brake. I have this set, but it needs some tlc to bring it into service. 

 

 

Seeing triple ....

 

 

Having bought one of these beauties upon release, with a view to gentle back-dating, I thought that I should bag some more for rather more extensive modification before they became too rare.  I saw a couple for very reasonable prices recently (one second hand, one 'old new stock'), and, so, thought I'd best acquire them.  One is destined (I hope!) to become a Class 380 'Steamroller' for Barnstaple Town. 

 

 

The 380s were another Adams class, and the other type that could be turned at Ilfracombe at the time.  As a mixed traffic loco, she needs to be finished in lined 'Holly' green, and needs to end up something like this ...

 

 

 

 

It will be seen that the resemblance is more apparent than actual.  The Steamroller has a larger boiler at a higher pitch and, hence, a shorter chimney.

 

However, the coupled wheels and w/b are a match.  Now I have to take it apart and assess, because I would not be entirely surprised if there is not a chassis block extended too far forward, so, we'll see ... 

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Slowly rumbling on in the background are the plans for Barnstaple Town

 

As I mentioned, recently an A12 Jubilee arrived.  One of only two 4-coupled tender classes that could operate on the Ilfracombe branch in the chosen period, I would like to run her at the head of a through train comprising a '4 and a half set'.  I'm not entirely sure when such sets were formed, but it's an attractive choice; four 48' non-corridor bogie carriages from the 1890s and a 6-wheel brake. I have this set, but it needs some tlc to bring it into service. 

 

 

Seeing triple ....

 

 

Having bought one of these beauties upon release, with a view to gentle back-dating, I thought that I should bag some more for rather more extensive modification before they became too rare.  I saw a couple for very reasonable prices recently (one second hand, one 'old new stock'), and, so, thought I'd best acquire them.  One is destined (I hope!) to become a Class 380 'Steamroller' for Barnstaple Town. 

 

 

The 380s were another Adams class, and the other type that could be turned at Ilfracombe at the time.  As a mixed traffic loco, she needs to be finished in lined 'Holly' green, and needs to end up something like this ...

 

 

 

 

It will be seen that the resemblance is more apparent than actual.  The Steamroller has a larger boiler at a higher pitch and, hence, a shorter chimney.

 

However, the coupled wheels and w/b are a match.  Now I have to take it apart and assess, because I would not be entirely surprised if there is not a chassis block extended too far forward, so, we'll see ... 

 

PS, the reason I need the Adams livery models to carve up is because these have a top slide bar only.  The SR and BR versions of the model will also have a lower slide bar, and, as you can see from the picture, the Steamroller also only has an upper slide bar.   

 

[Northroader]

TBH, there’ll only be 1mm difference in boiler height between the two classes, worth agonising over? Have you picked up on Ben Alders blog?

 

[Edwardian]

On 27/01/2021 at 19:40, Northroader said:

TBH, there’ll only be 1mm difference in boiler height between the two classes, worth agonising over? Have you picked up on Ben Alders blog?

 

 

That's incredibly helpful, thanks.  It should be a great bother to saw off those 'wings' to the chassis block; I've sawn off worse on the old 14XX chassis. 

 

The idea of re-wheeling is interesting; 6'7" wheels would give you a LSWR Adams 460 and 307 classes, for instance, 7', 445 class.

 

Of course, you know what's coming eventually?  A Beyer 4-4-0 - MGN A Class style - for the WNR.  As a freelance loco, I can keep more of the Radial, e.g. body, front bogies. 

 

I am pondering your practical suggestion re the Steamroller. It is a question both pitch and diameter and I am concerned that the Steamroller would look noticeably different (not that a Radial will run on Barnstaple Town). Based upon the drawings posted:

 

- The top of the boiler on the Radial (not allowing for the cladding) I calculate as  36.35mm above rail height.

 

- The top of the boiler on the Steamroller (not allowing for the cladding) I calculate as  37.76mm above rail height.

 

I realise that it would be a lot of work to gain 1.4mm of height and 1.3 on the diameter of the barrel, but the dome and boiler band positions are different, so I fear a whole new superstructure will be required. 

 

EDIT: Given that the boiler assembly is cast and includes the side tanks, using the model's boiler is not in any case possible.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

This was a bit of a faff, and rather delicate work; Hornby went mad with a glue gun when they put these wee beasties together, it's not exactly clip-together.

 

Here, eventually, is what you end up with. 

 

 

Here are the bits we actually need (except the bogie has to be replaced, so my next job is working out how to take that off).  

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

I notice that OO Works has announced its next loco; an Adams A12 Jubilee!

 

 

However, I note the LSWR version is to be finished in Holly Green, in relation to which OO Works say:

 

The LSWR Holly Green with Pea Green lining was the main mixed traffic livery from around 1905/1923.   There are pictures of the loco's in this livery in "Locomotives Illustrated" No111.  This livery was also applied on the K-10s From new, which where also Built around 1905

 

Mixed traffic types could be in 'goods' green, witness the Steamrollers, but the Jubilees I've been looking at were certainly in Drummond passenger lining.

 

So, interesting.