20 ton low sided steel wagons

[Trains&armour]

Hi
By coincidence, I came across one of these wagons, the 20 ton low sided steel wagon (example below):

And see my thread at:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116707-haphazardous-00-modelling-a-slow-workbench-topic/&do=findComment&comment=3437306

I've started to try and build a model of one of these wagons. But I really could use some more information on these wagons. History, builders, users, detail shots, but especially photographs with recognizable PO liveries.
Any and all help appreciated.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Trains&armour
New link

[watfordtmc]

This is some thoughts on both this query and the one you posed in the linked thread.

 

All references I can find you already seem to have!  It would appear however, that the design was based on the standard RCH 20 ton steel mineral wagon as updated in 1923, and adapted to reflect the greater density of ‘rock’ compared to coal – or cut down if you prefer.

 

All the references are essentially to wagons built by the Gloucester Carriage & Wagon Co. (I have a feeling that Cambrian were either a subsidiary of GC&W or closely associated).  The other common factors seem to be that all operators were served by the Great Western, and located west of a line drawn North/South through Gloucester.

 

Road stone seems to have been a very local industry in the 1920’s, so I wouldn’t expect the wagons to be seen too far away from their operator’s base in this period.  There was a move towards consolidation before World War 2; Scatter Rock was bought out by Roads Reconstruction Ltd. who eventually became part of the Foster Yeoman combine I believe.

So for a mid/late 1930’s or later model, these wagons (under a different livery) could well be found further away from their original base, but probably still within the orbit of mid-Wales (Lant) or the West Country (Hoare/Scatter Rock/Wickwar).

 

Detail shots – I doubt there will be any specific to these wagons, but anything that applied to the standard mineral 20 tonners would apply to these, other than the height.  Squinting at the information board in the photo suggests that height of the wagon from rail level to top of body was 6 feet 9 inches.  There’s a depth inside of body figure too, but my eyesight can’t make that number out I’m afraid.

 

Clearly you’ve got access to all of Keith Turton’s books.  The diagram for Thomas Lant was actually published in the one-time Model Railway News (Jan 1965, page 36, vol 41, no 481) in an article by the late Peter Matthews.

 

Peter was a sort of proto Bill Hudson/Keith Turton; the first person to publish articles on PO wagons illustrated by photographs or sketches that were recognisably of differing wagon types.  He ran two series on PO wagons in MRN – from July 1963 to September 1966, and October 1968 to August 1971.

He also had another series of articles, published rather intermittently in the one-time Model Railway Constructor – January 1967 – June 1967, August & September 1967, and November 1967 (all tank wagons) and January 1968 – May 1968, and August 1968 (mostly coal wagons).

 

I’ve looked through my back numbers of these, except for the Jul 1963 MRN which I don’t have a copy of, but other than the Lant diagram, the only other reference I found was a rather poor quality copy of the Scatter Rock wagon you’ve already accessed.

 

Not really the response you were looking for I’m afraid, but good luck with the modelling.

 

[Wickham Green]

You don't say what scale you're modelling in - but for 4mm you could do worse than start with cut-down Airfix/Hornby 21T coal wagon bodies. Unfortunately these wagons are LONG OVERDUE for a chassis upgrade and the best you'll probably find as a replacement - which isn't BR or LNER specific - would be from one of the Roger Chivers kits. [ Though I pointed out that there is a need for 'spare' chassis kits they've never been available - unfortunately - and the kits themselves are now approaching the hens teeth level of availability.]

[Fat Controller]

On 02/12/2019 at 14:35, Wickham Green said:

You don't say what scale you're modelling in - but for 4mm you could do worse than start with cut-down Airfix/Hornby 21T coal wagon bodies. Unfortunately these wagons are LONG OVERDUE for a chassis upgrade and the best you'll probably find as a replacement - which isn't BR or LNER specific - would be from one of the Roger Chivers kits. [ Though I pointed out that there is a need for 'spare' chassis kits they've never been available - unfortunately - and the kits themselves are now approaching the hens teeth level of availability.]

The bodies are available from Dapol for £1.61 ! Look under  'wagons', then 'unpainted  wagon bodies. For chassis, I've used Parkside 12' RCH ones. I made an ex-LMS side-doors only and an ex-PO one with two end-doors.

RRC became ARC, based at Whatley quarry. 

Apparently, the 'tarred stone' wagons avoided 'Pooling' at the beginning of WW2, only to be sequestered in  1947. All were renumbered with M prefixes from 630000 upwards. I do wonder if they'll feature in another volume of 'The Acquired Wagons of British Railways; the last tome covered steel-bodied open, both traffic and Loco Coal.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Fat Controller

[Trains&armour]

On 02/12/2019 at 01:22, watfordtmc said:

Clearly you’ve got access to all of Keith Turton’s books.  The diagram for Thomas Lant was actually published in the one-time Model Railway News (Jan 1965, page 36, vol 41, no 481) in an article by the late Peter Matthews.

I don't have all of the Turton books. If you happen to have a copy of volume one lying around you don't use anymore I'd be very interested....
More seriously, if you could scan/photograph the Peter Matthews article for me, I'd be very grateful.

And as an aside, I found this in:  David Larkin, The Acquired Wagons of British Railways,volume 2, pag. 77, (2019)

Little doubt in my mind that Gloucester rebuild several low sided wagon to normal capacity coal wagons. Why? Don't know. Perhaps low sided wagons were not as useful as first thought?

[Trains&armour]

On 02/12/2019 at 15:35, Wickham Green said:

You don't say what scale you're modelling in - but for 4mm you could do worse than start with cut-down Airfix/Hornby 21T coal wagon bodies.

00 gauge, but see here:

Aas to the chassis-underframe, see here:

 

Not perfect, but better.

[watfordtmc]

Now revisited the references and photographed the relevant pages, which hopefully are attached herewith:

 

 

Hope these are of interest.  Not too sure if there's a copyright issue though!

 

Regards

Watfordtmc

 

[Trains&armour]

Very nice, thanks!