roythebus Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Brian Hardy of the London Underground Society posted this photo on Facebook. It's a Russian steam loco with what appears to be an LMS coach next to it. Were coaches sold to Russia or were they built there as copies? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 20, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2019 It doesn't appear to have any automatic brake, difficult to tell from picture if its on standard gauge track or on Russian gauge, could have been at a border point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2019 Is there a date on the photo? I merely speculate, but as several British ambulance trains were captured by the Germans in 1940, it is possible that they were pressed into service by the Reichsbahn and used on the Eastern Front on the lines converted to standard gauge, or even re-wheeled to Russian gauge.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnofwessex Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 AFAIK a Jinty was in use in the Dresden area in 1953, after being captured by the Germans in 1940. I would have loved to know what The Germans thought of it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3109 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 AFAIK a Jinty was in use in the Dresden area in 1953, after being captured by the Germans in 1940. I would have loved to know what The Germans thought of it There's a post about that somewhere on RMweb, no idea where but it's how I learned about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnofwessex Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 There's a post about that somewhere on RMweb, no idea where but it's how I learned about it. I'm pretty certain thats where I heard about it as well.................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Is there a date on the photo? I merely speculate, but as several British ambulance trains were captured by the Germans in 1940, it is possible that they were pressed into service by the Reichsbahn and used on the Eastern Front on the lines converted to standard gauge, or even re-wheeled to Russian gauge.. Possibly. But I always assumed the ambulance cars were early LMS with panelled sides and planked ends. Answering the Jinty query. Wiki is your friend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD_ex-LMS_Fowler_Class_3F Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3109 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 How prevalent was vacuum braking on the continent at the time? I'm pretty sure it was fairly common in France, but Germany seems to be a stretch. Mind you in wartime there would've been more pressing concerns than operating swingers I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2019 The coach has no brake pipe, no steam pipe and no coupling; the safety chains (?) were presumably an addition. The state of the 2-10-0 suggests war damage, so I would suggest this is a late war photo probably taken on the Eastern Front. The lettering on the coach end is similar to lettering on some German military equipment/vehicles. I still reckon the only way such a coach could be in DR service at that time would be as a 1940 captured vehicle. Some Period 1 stock was all steel and flush sided but my book on LMS coaches isn't clear as to whether any were converted for ambulance trains. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2019 AFAIK a Jinty was in use in the Dresden area in 1953, after being captured by the Germans in 1940. I would have loved to know what The Germans thought of it Hmm - Bachmann or Hornby? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 AFAIK a Jinty was in use in the Dresden area in 1953, after being captured by the Germans in 1940. I would have loved to know what The Germans thought of it I don't know about a Jinty but they also found a Dean Goods that was left behind at Dunkirk. They loved it and used it on local trip working. I say local trip working. I believe it was so liked and trusted that it got as far as Vienna. Back on topic. WD Set 21, formed of former LMS stock, was left behind at Dunkirk and certainly got as far as Hamburg. If you look at the top right of the coach you can see a patch of a different shade. I have a photo of such a coach with a German tailboard fitted and it looks like a variation of a tailboard in the photo. I thought we got the set back in 1945, so a date would be of great interest. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickon Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Brian Hardy of the London Underground Society posted this photo on Facebook. It's a Russian steam loco with what appears to be an LMS coach next to it. Were coaches sold to Russia or were they built there as copies?50247442_2486132448070484_1109420065788264448_o.jpg Just after the war, the British Royal Engineers put a lot of effort into getting the German railways running again using both German and British locomotives and rolling stock. Allan Garraway of Festiniog railway fame describes his time as general manager of the Detmold Military Railway in his autobiography 'Garraway Father and Son'. For instance, British built breakdown cranes were shipped to the continent with at least four fetching up in West Germany despite the German preference for using jacks the put their trans back on the rails. Quite a lot of British stock was left behind and I can well imagine a 1950s meeting of Russian and British stock somewhere on the border. Edited January 21, 2019 by Dickon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) The Jinty in Germany and a Dean Goods in Austria were pictured on another forum, https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?017,8160299 Edited January 21, 2019 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2019 Not very well up on Russian locos at all but is the loco in the picture a Kriegslok with Russian markings and taller boiler fittings? The damage seems to be all around the cab with the roof blown off and the side buckled out so maybe the result of some catastrophic tube failure rather than enemy action damage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I remember this photo, or a similar one, appearing previously but I'm not sure whether it was on here or Nat.Pres as I use both. ISTR that the final conclusion was that it was not ex LMS but Prussian or Saxon. Sorry can't be more exact. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Not very well up on Russian locos at all but is the loco in the picture a Kriegslok with Russian markings and taller boiler fittings? The damage seems to be all around the cab with the roof blown off and the side buckled out so maybe the result of some catastrophic tube failure rather than enemy action damage? Close, it is a 2-10-0 but a home grown one. CO=SO in western script, standing for Sergei Ordzhonikize, a senior member of the Soviet government in the 1930's, until IIRC he was purged. I doubt if any of these were built or converted to standard gauge, so the photo appears to be somewhere no further west than the Soviet border with Poland, Slovakia or Romania. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2019 Not very well up on Russian locos at all but is the loco in the picture a Kriegslok with Russian markings and taller boiler fittings? The damage seems to be all around the cab with the roof blown off and the side buckled out so maybe the result of some catastrophic tube failure rather than enemy action damage? It looks like a Ye 2-10-0 of one series or another - i.e. US built for export to Russia during WWI although 200 remained in the USA following the revolution and were regauged and sold to US roads where they were known as 'Russian Decapods' The domes are correct for a Ye as are the coupling rods and some of the visible pipework. (N.B. the Russian designation was not Ye as such, that is an anglisication of the Russian designation for the various classes. There is some info on this Wiki link - yes, I know but other photos suggest it to be a Ye of some sort) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_locomotive_class_Ye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2019 It doesn't appear to have any automatic brake, difficult to tell from picture if its on standard gauge track or on Russian gauge, could have been at a border point The brake pipe is present but the bag is missing as is the drawbar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 I'm 99% certain the coach is LMS design. European stock usually had more circular roofs than British stock. Regarding the braking, I'm sure European railways had more or less standardised on air brakes at an early stage of railway development. I know a few Swiss mountain railways that use vacuum brake. What is missing from the ends is the standard RCH jumper for carriage lighting controls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2019 Its certainty got British passcom gear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2019 Its certainty got British passcom gear BS Gangway? And what looks as if it could be an LMS bogie. Number on end looks like 7430 if that's any clue to those who know about WD requisitioned stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 How prevalent was vacuum braking on the continent at the time? I'm pretty sure it was fairly common in France, but Germany seems to be a stretch. Mind you in wartime there would've been more pressing concerns than operating swingers I suppose. France was air-brake, as was most of the rest of Europe; the most noticeable exception being Spain, which used vacuum brakes until fairly recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Not very well up on Russian locos at all but is the loco in the picture a Kriegslok with Russian markings and taller boiler fittings? It's a CO18 (SO18) class. 489 were built at Voroshilovgrad Locomotive Works between 1939 and 1946. The captured Kriegsloks were TЭ (TE) class. Cheers David Edited January 22, 2019 by DavidB-AU Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 An idea. Did the Soviets bring any of their own locomotives to the northern division of the Trans-Iranian Railway? Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Close, it is a 2-10-0 but a home grown one. CO=SO in western script, standing for Sergei Ordzhonikize, a senior member of the Soviet government in the 1930's, until IIRC he was purged. I doubt if any of these were built or converted to standard gauge, so the photo appears to be somewhere no further west than the Soviet border with Poland, Slovakia or Romania. John. Looks like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Steam_locomotive_SO_18-3100.JPG/1280px-Steam_locomotive_SO_18-3100.JPG The next one numerically. Keith Edited January 22, 2019 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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