New Layout

[hodgkinr]

Hi Guys

 

This is my 1st post on the forum.  Although I have been around reading the forum for a while now.  Over the years I have collected a few trains in various gauges.  Anyway the wife has just agreed for me to take control of the small bedroom for my layout.  I have pondered a lot and finally decided to go for 00 gauge as i have more stock in that. 

 

I must have changed my mind so many times on the design.  Anyway the attached one seems to be favourable at the moment as it has a small dock on the right side.  

 

I really wanted to make my own track so I started to draw the track in Anyrail using C&L finescale track options.  This seemed to fit on the board ok (Board Grid size 6" square).  The next step was to try to build it all on Templot.  Here is my issue I used 00-BF track but it does not seem to fit like it did with Anyrail?  

 

I have redrawn it now using Peco streamline Code 75 which is what is shown on the attached plan and this fits as well.  I would be grateful if anyone could tell me what I have done wrong and why my Templot did not fit?

 

Thanks

Bob

[hodgkinr]

looks like i forgot to add the file properly

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi Guys

 

This is my 1st post on the forum.  Although I have been around reading the forum for a while now.  Over the years I have collected a few trains in various gauges.  Anyway the wife has just agreed for me to take control of the small bedroom for my layout.  I have pondered a lot and finally decided to go for 00 gauge as i have more stock in that. 

 

I must have changed my mind so many times on the design.  Anyway the attached one seems to be favourable at the moment as it has a small dock on the right side.  

 

I really wanted to make my own track so I started to draw the track in Anyrail using C&L finescale track options.  This seemed to fit on the board ok (Board Grid size 6" square).  The next step was to try to build it all on Templot.  Here is my issue I used 00-BF track but it does not seem to fit like it did with Anyrail?  

 

I have redrawn it now using Peco streamline Code 75 which is what is shown on the attached plan and this fits as well.  I would be grateful if anyone could tell me what I have done wrong and why my Templot did not fit?

 

Thanks

Bob

 

Can't see the plan. But most likely explanation is that the geometry of Peco is very different from the more prototypically correct C&L. In particular, any double track will be at a wider spacing. You may well need that wider spacing if you have tight curves in a small room.

[hodgkinr]

Sorry I probably did not explain myself very well.  But I still don't really understand why my original drawing using C&L fitted on my Anyrail baseboard plan but would not fit on the Templot one?

 

Thanks

 

Bob

[DCB]

If that is the whole layout you need a cigarette packet and a pencil because it is completely inoperable, nowhere for anything to go...  No space to run round anything.

Its much easier to use a pencil to work out where trains are to run as a concept then fit the track to it than to stick bits of track together randomly until the space is used up.

If 1 in 20 plans works you are doing well

[hodgkinr]

I was planning on a fiddle yard on the left side?

[Neal B]

What is your intention from an operational point if view? That is, what is the excuse for trains being there... Apart from wanting to run trains obviously! If you have a fiddle yard on the left you have the essence of a branch line terminus there of sorts with a run round loop on the curve.

 

The loop line on the top right is non sensical as there is no line for a loco to run on to in order to reverse on to the point. It's also a repeat of the other loop so unlikely to exist in close proximity as it's increased maintenance for the track gangs.

 

You have the beginnings of a small branch line terminus, industry spur or freight railhead there but it needs to be thought through a bit more. Layout planning is an iterative process that throws up plenty of challenges of it's own and can be a hobby in it's own right.

 

Have you thought of a location or time period? Researching can provide a lot of inspiration and while i'm certainly more of a freelance modeller than one who recreates the prototype i do still find a lot of my inspiration comes from old maps, books and the internet. There are some very good books on layout planning out there too.

[Harlequin]

[Deleted duplicates after trouble posting.]

Edited January 21, 2019 by Harlequin

[Harlequin]

The run round loop top right is, as others suggest, not useful because there's no room beyond the right-most points.

 

The track layout looks a bit disorganised to me - but maybe that's just AnyRail. Station layouts tended to be quite rational unless there was a very specific reason for them not to be. And I see one radius that looks a bit tight.

 

I think it could be interesting and I like the curve incorporating the run round loop but I think it would be better if that part of the layout was just two parallel lines with a crossover at the far end (depending on what purpose that area is intended to serve.)

 

What are the various sidings for?

 

How big is the room? (Specifically, how long can the fiddle yard be?)

Edited January 21, 2019 by Harlequin

[hodgkinr]

Hi

 

The room is very small typically 11' x 8'.  The Fiddle yard was going to be a temporary attachment  as there is a door on the left side which does not give me much more room otherwise.  On the bottom right I was going to build a dock with dock buildings and loading cranes.  

I did look at the run round look and think it was a bit tight.  I think there may be some room to move it a bit to the left to give me a bit more room to run a small tank engine around.  I was planning to have a small station there.

I suppose i should really have put a bit more detail on the plan as to my thoughts.  I was more interested why there was such a difference between Anyrail and Templot points.

 

Thanks

Bob

[Harlequin]

I haven't used either package in anger but I guess that AnyRail lets you take more liberties with radii and angles than Templot will allow.

 

With your main board being 8ft long, and even if you include the length of the arm of the L, at 4mm scale a small station will more or less cover the entire board...

 

Could you extend the short arm of the L to the full 8ft width of the room? That would give you more space to fit in the things you want.

[martin_wynne]

Hi Bob,

 

Templot allows you to create anything you like, far more than is possible with straight C&L templates in AnyRail. So I think you must have been going wrong somewhere. If you post your Templot plan we can probably help you to improve it. What is the size of the AnyRail plan which you posted? If those are 6" squares I'm guessing 8ft x 5ft with boards 3ft and 2ft wide? Is that the finished size of the layout? Is there a fiddle yard on the left? How long?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hodgkinr]

Hi Guys

 

I should have guessed that there is no simple answer

Perhaps I should explain my thinking a bit more.  While I was browsing the web I came across a small layout plan for 0n30 and i thought "That looks interesting "  perhaps i could adapt it to my needs.  The scale was 16.5 in O gauge but i may be able to change it to 00 and fit it in the small bedroom. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the plans here, but I'm sure i will get told either way. 

I did make a mirror image of the plans so it fitted in the room easier and would give me a bit of room to work.  I planned on making a small fiddle yard that was going to have 3 tracks about 3 foot long that could be removed and the door shut when not in use.  I planned to use my Unlined GWR tank engines so 1942-47 era ish.  I did not plan to use any long passenger trains ..maybe a tank with 1 or 2 coaches ..if i could get it to fit that is.  But because of the dock I was going for small goods trains.  I first drew it up in anyrail using the C&L finescale templates and thought this looks like it may work.  With a little bit of rejigging I may be able to use it to be able to finally run some of my trains.

 

I'll post some of the pictures I have.

 

I suppose I was trying to be a bit ambitious trying to build my own track on my 1st model.  And perhaps i should stick to keeping it as narrow gauge.  I do have some O narrow gauge engines.

 

Thanks for all your comments BTW it is appreciated.

 

Bob

[Pete the Elaner]

The station looks like it has been squeezed into the corner like an afterthought. Trains have to stop well short of the run round loop in order to actually run round, leaving only space for 1 coach on that plan. I have never seen a terminus this short.

There is no reason why it cannot take up at least half of that side of the layout. Most termini I have seen were way longer than the trains which usually served them.

There is a siding adjacent to the station's headshunt. I thought this was for storing locos until I saw the engine shed, which makes me wonder why it is there at all? Why not move the shed here & remove the siding where it is now?

This creates a space where the engine shed was. Either move the level crossing to here or replace it with a road bridge which is also your scenic break, the road providing access to the coal yard. An option is to make the backscene high level street with a retaining wall in front of the railway.

The coal depot & dock give the goods side some purpose.

If you want to make something a little different, the dock could be on a pier.

[martin_wynne]

Hi Bob,

 

I like Derek the crane.

 

That should be a Derrick Crane:

 

linked from http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/24000/24033/derrickcrane_24033_sm.gif

 

That's a cramped little layout in 7mm scale. Reduced to 4mm scale in the same area it could make a very attractive model.

 

Are you happy building track? I will see what can be fitted in Templot.

 

cheers,

 

Martin. 

[hodgkinr]

Hi Martin 

 

I'm happier to build it in 4mm scale and those are exactly the kind of Derrick cranes I want to use. 

Although I have never built my own tracks I would be happy to give it a shot.  I like to think I'm still an engineer having built a few 5" gauge steam loco's.  Also I think I may be able to find my way round a soldering iron.

 

Hi Pete

Thanks for your ideas.  I did guess I would have to move things around a bit.  That's why i started to try to put things down on Anyrail.  By the way the board i'm using is 6" wider on the top bit of the "L" I have allready made that one 4' x 2'6".  I was going to make another 2...1@ 2' x 2'6" and the long one down the right side @ 2' x 5'

 

Thanks

Bob

[Nick Holliday]

Since the passenger traffic seems to be subservient to the goods, it might be possible to dispense with the rather tight run round loop at the platform, and, after disembarkation, the loco can back the train out, and run round in the goods loop, and return the stock to the platform. Dursley worked a bit like this, although the loop was on the main running in line.

[mdvle]

The station looks like it has been squeezed into the corner like an afterthought. Trains have to stop well short of the run round loop in order to actually run round, leaving only space for 1 coach on that plan. I have never seen a terminus this short.

 

The thing that needs to be remembered if attempting to convert a narrow gauge layout plan to standard is that the narrow gauge, as a result of its sharper curves, has shorter rolling stock (and likely also fewer passengers / less goods).

 

Thus given the somewhat caricature nature of a narrow gauge layout that passenger station is likely perfect for fitting in, and would likely have 2 "short" coaches comfortably fitting at the platform.

[martin_wynne]

Although I have never built my own tracks I would be happy to give it a shot.  I like to think I'm still an engineer having built a few 5" gauge steam loco's.  Also I think I may be able to find my way round a soldering iron.

 

Hi Bob,

 

I don't think you will have any trouble building track!

 

Here is a stab at converting it to 4mm / 00 in Templot. Bear in mind that all the structures will be significantly smaller in 4mm scale:

 

 

I have eased some of the curves, added a proper length platform and run-round, a short spur in the yard, and one extra siding on the dock.

 

I'm happy to work this up into a proper design if you wish. But I need a bit more info -- what are the exact board sizes and where exactly are the board joins? It's ok to build a turnout over a board joint, but not through the point blades or the crossing (frog).

 

Alternatively I can post this Templot file as it stands and leave it for you to take it from there?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hodgkinr]

Hi Martin 

 

I'm really impressed with that.  I have been messing with Templot all day and I have got absolutely nowhere.  

 

My board sizes are from left to right 4' x 2'6", 2' x 2'6" and 2' x 5'.  So its six inches wider on the top part of the "L"  I think that can be seen on my Anyrail drawing it has 6" grid lines. 

 

Once I have joined all the parts of the boards together I don't plan on moving it so it should not matter putting a turnout over the join ( I think?"

 

Thanks

 

Bob  

[martin_wynne]

Hi Martin 

 

I'm really impressed with that.  I have been messing with Templot all day and I have got absolutely nowhere.  

 

My board sizes are from left to right 4' x 2'6", 2' x 2'6" and 2' x 5'.  So its six inches wider on the top part of the "L"  I think that can be seen on my Anyrail drawing it has 6" grid lines. 

 

Once I have joined all the parts of the boards together I don't plan on moving it so it should not matter putting a turnout over the join ( I think?" 

 

Hi Bob,

 

Until someone invites you to take it to an exhibition?

 

Thanks for the sizes, I will work round them and see how it looks. A 2ft-6in board is about the maximum you would want to reach across in the top right corner, so I will pull the tracks a bit further south.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hodgkinr]

Your prolly right it may be prudent to allow for moving.  

 

I'm pretty gobsmacked atm just sitting here looking at what you have done!  I really can't wait to get started.

 

Thanks again

 

Bob

[martin_wynne]

Hi Bob,

 

I don't know how closely you intend to follow the original scenically, but I thought it might be helpful to see the plan with the structures at the correct scale. So I have reduced various bits of the original drawing to 4mm scale. There is room for most of them to be full models instead of half-relief:

 

 

As you can see, your board joints are running through 4 of the turnouts, which is not ideal but I found it difficult to avoid. They should be ok if the joints are bolted up tight and not disturbed in normal use. (Ideally, the track plan is decided first and then the baseboards are built to suit. ).

 

What it does show is that there would be a rather large area of water in the dock, leaving insufficient space behind the tracks for the dock warehouse to be modelled in full instead of half-relief.

 

So I have tried shifting the plan on the boards a bit:

 

 

which you might prefer. It does reduce the number of turnouts across joints to 3, although one is at an acute angle and will need to be built with care, and the joint not disturbed too much. The tracks fit the dock area better, and are longer, but It left rather an empty area at the front of the layout. So I extended the goods siding and added a kickback. The loop end spur is lengthened, so there is now plenty of room for your largest loco to run round. It might be better to move the station building to the other end of the platform. The downside is that the engine shed road is rather shorter than before.

 

It does look rather densely packed with sharply curved tracks, but of course that is typical of docksides. Some of them could be omitted if not wanted. Or If some of the tracks are inset in the road surface, the number of them wouldn't be so noticeable.

 

If you say which of these two designs you prefer, I will post the Templot files so that you can print it out full size and try it on the boards. Or change it to whatever you want.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited January 23, 2019 by martin_wynne

[hodgkinr]

Hi Martin

They both look pretty impressive.  You have made some very important views to me.  The only reason i went with those boards sizes was I have already had the 4'x2.6" cut for me by Model Railway Solutions and i wanted to utilise this.  It may be better If i have another 4'x2.6" and 2'x2'6" and place the 2'x2.6" at the dock area.

 

Thanks for showing me what the effect the scaling will have on the buildings.  The Half relief seems to be the way to go I do propose to use back boards so it will look ok.

 

Thanks

Bob

[hodgkinr]

Hi Martin

 

I have been looking at your second plan for a bit now.  Utilising a second 4'x2'6" improves the point situation.  I'm certainly not thinking of sticking rigidly to the plan.   It was the docks and goods area that appealed to me.  I'm sure the rest will evolve once i give it a bit more thought.

 

Thanks

 

Bob