VR model railways are now 'a thing' apparently...

[Lacathedrale]

This is a link from another forum, showing off 'Rolling Line', a VR-based model railway game. It's certainly in its infancy and not something I would spend much time with - but the cat is out of the bag now, so to speak:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rolling_Line/comments/aifwmw/after_25_years_trains_have_returned_to_the_exact/

 

Here's the software: https://store.steampowered.com/app/754150/Rolling_Line/

 

A HTC Vive or Oculus is way too expensive for the average person IMO but something like Samsung GearVR or Google Cardboard (which just require a modern-ish phone) makes it pretty appealing to those who have the time to tweak.

 

Note: please don't let this become another discussion about 'those kids and their nintendos' and/or 'the death of the hobby' !

 

[njee20]

That's pretty cool. For £13 I'm tempted to have a go!

[rab]

I suppose it has it advantages.

No problems with derailments or stalling locos.

No time wasted cleaning track or wheels.

[jonny777]

I know that most people seem to pooh-pooh the VR idea, but I see it as the way the future will go. The demonstration in the video is pretty simplistic stuff, but with the advancement of computer 3D technology and the merging of enhanced video with self created track layouts, I see no reason why (in maybe 20 years time) young railway enthusiasts will not be entertaining themselves by virtual modelling in a manner similar, but much more advanced, to the one shown. 

 

In fact they may be creating such ancient but historical representations as (say) the pre-electrification GWML between Paddington and Reading with trackwork based on old diagrams and using video footage filmed by their grandparents. 

 

And why dream of a time machine, when computer enhanced imagery combined from photos stills and cine footage, can take you back to the mid-30s and the running of The Silver Jubilee and Coronation expresses, just as their great great grandfather would have seen it?

[Edge]

For someone who spent a lot of time playing with Hornby Virtual railway because there wasn't enough space for a proper one in my house, I quite like the idea of a VR model railway. However, as a member of the 'younger generation' of the hobby, the thing i actually like about it is the tactile nature of construction and operation - so I (unlike many it seems) foresee that there will always be a place for the physical layout and that VR is likely to continue being an interesting 'branch-line' off the hobby rather than an outright replacement. 

 

After all, with such immersion, why wouldn't you just have a train sim, rather than a digital version of a model of the real thing? 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Edge

[HonestTom]

For someone who spent a lot of time playing with Hornby Virtual railway because there wasn't enough space for a proper one in my house, I quite like the idea of a VR model railway. However, as a member of the 'younger generation' of the hobby, the thing i actually like about it is the tactile nature of construction and operation - so I (unlike many it seems) foresee that there will always be a place for the physical layout and that VR is likely to continue being an interesting 'branch-line' off the hobby rather than an outright replacement. 

 

 

I take this view also. A lot of the pleasure of modelling comes from creating something. It's like how with a phone, you can take a photo and apply filters to make it look like a painting - but that won't give you the same satisfaction as actually painting a picture.

 

That's not to say there couldn't be a crossover. How many of us would love to model King's Cross or Carlisle or Edinburgh Waverley but don't have the space? This could be a compromise.

['CHARD]

 Carlisle or Edinburgh Waverley but don't have the space? 

 

...or Carlisle TO Waverley....  

[jonny777]

I fear that some contributors may be missing my point. I'm not saying VR is going to be a replacement for creative modelling; I am trying to project the technology 20-25 years into the future, where the youngsters who will want this as a Christmas present are now at infant school, or playing with Brio at nursery, or maybe not even born yet. 

[jonny777]

Deleted repeat post

Edited January 23, 2019 by jonny777

[The Johnster]

It could also have some use as a planning tool.

[Captain Kernow]

I noticed the carrot and parsnip trees.

[Mallard60022]

Looks like fun. My existing layout is VR as far as many are concerned

Duck.

[Nearholmer]

Any scope to interface VR/Sim technology to a physical layout?

 

I’m thinking ‘disappear off-scene under road bridge, and continue all the way to wherever in VR/Sim’.

 

A kind of infinite software fiddle-yard.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Nearholmer

[NIK]

It could also have some use as a planning tool.

 

Hi,

 

The layout planning software 3rd Planit has for a number of years an extra 3D viewing mode using very cheap Anaglyphic glasses.

 

So you can look at your planned layout from different places as trains run around as before but in 3D.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited January 23, 2019 by NIK

[Harlequin]

VR has it's place and it could certainly fix many of the problems that are almost impossible to solve in a physical model, such as realistic steam and smoke.

 

But there's still something special about a physical model and perhaps the music world provides an analogy - it looked like streaming and digital downloads were going to take over but physical vinyl records are becoming more popular.

 

Where the technology could interact with physical models is in the area of AR - "Augmented Reality".

For example, imagine your favourite Hornby/Bachmann/whatever model express loco pulling into the station hauling an excursion train of expensive model coaches that you've laboured over to get just-so. If put on your AR glasses, you can see your model and overlaid on top of it:

• Steam blowing out of the safety valve and being whisked away on a breeze
• Horses in a nearby field startled by the train and cantering away
• Porters on the platform sorting out trolleys
• The driver waving an oily rag at the station master
• Passengers throwing the doors open and pouring off the train before its even stopped
• Distant level crossing gates being opened to traffic and cars and bikes crossing the track behind the train

Or whatever you want... In other words it could add some life and movement to the model scene.

 

Just needs the software to be able to track a few fixed and moving points in the model and transform some 3d animations relative to them... (Ahem, "Just"...) Oh, and understand the relative depths of things in the scene...

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Harlequin

[Captain Kernow]

What I don't quite understand is this.

 

If VR is getting so good, I'd much rather have a representation of a real railway location from history, the kind of place that we seek to replicate in our models.

 

If replicating 'The Past' is one of the purposes of our modelling, why not then go straight to the 'main event' in VR?

[Corbs]

What I don't quite understand is this.

 

If VR is getting so good, I'd much rather have a representation of a real railway location from history, the kind of place that we seek to replicate in our models.

 

If replicating 'The Past' is one of the purposes of our modelling, why not then go straight to the 'main event' in VR?

 

Whilst possibly not destined to be VR, there’s a project on the go at the moment to recreate Nottingham Victoria station in 3D, which is quite stunning.

[Vanguard 5374]

Glad to see Rolling Line on here, given how simple it is to use £13 is a bargain. Been using it myself recently and currently looking at modding some british stock into the game itself.

[Nearholmer]

There must be multiple 'models' in digital form within various Sim programmes and other applications, representing multiple bits of railway ........ can the datafiles be accessed 'in common', allowing the various bits/things to be effectively 'travelled through' as one?

 

If not already ....... just wait, because its an obvious thing to do, thereby (eventually) allowing one to travel the whole country (and fantasy ones), and to/fro through history at a given location.

 

If you can get Network Rail and the TOCs & FOCs to join in, it would be really good, because their digital models are pretty fine!

[Corbs]

Whilst possibly not destined to be VR, there’s a project on the go at the moment to recreate Nottingham Victoria station in 3D, which is quite stunning.

 

I was on my phone before but back on the computer now, here's the link to the facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/NottsVic3D/

 

There's a couple of posts on there that allow you to pan the camera and look around the station, like this one:

https://www.facebook.com/NottsVic3D/photos/a.2234442080115079/2363548750537744/?type=3&theater

 

(this link should work even without a facebook account)

[jonny777]

There must be multiple 'models' in digital form within various Sim programmes and other applications, representing multiple bits of railway ........ can the datafiles be accessed 'in common', allowing the various bits/things to be effectively 'travelled through' as one?

 

If not already ....... just wait, because its an obvious thing to do, thereby (eventually) allowing one to travel the whole country (and fantasy ones), and to/fro through history at a given location.

 

If you can get Network Rail and the TOCs & FOCs to join in, it would be really good, because their digital models are pretty fine!

 

 

Although this may seem strange, given the ability of computers to tackle almost anything, I believe the restrictions on this kind of VR production are simply the sheer level of computing power needed to simulate this 4D experience in real time while calling up the next video or VR sequences in advance, in order to make the whole experience seamless to the human viewer. 

 

Which really only goes to demonstrate (if any more proof was needed) just how miraculous the human brain is, because it is capable of processing all our sensory  information in an instant; whilst at the same time keeping track of all our body functions. (Sorry, I'm drifting O/T again). 

[Mike Buckner]

Any scope to interface VR/Sim technology to a physical layout?

 

I’m thinking ‘disappear off-scene under road bridge, and continue all the way to wherever in VR/Sim’.

 

A kind of infinite software fiddle-yard.

 

 

Now that's an interesting idea. Train disappears off to Northampton / Southampton / Hampton Wick / wherever. Some hours later it comes back.

 

Meanwhile your physical train is re-marshalled in the fiddle yard with the engine having run around, so as to mesh with the incoming train. If it's a DMU/EMU, you don't even have to do that.

[Nearholmer]

Indeed, easier with an EMU, and if you stick on RFID tag on it, it can auto-call the right train from the virtual library (a scan of itself?) to travel through VR-land and back, alerting you to its return to your FY.

 

It could even travel to your mate’s layout (provided he bought the same thing from Hornby) as part of its journey. Several layouts seamlessly linked via The Cloud.

 

Virtually re-marshalling a train would be possible too.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Nearholmer

[melmerby]

 

 

But there's still something special about a physical model and perhaps the music world provides an analogy - it looked like streaming and digital downloads were going to take over but physical vinyl records are becoming more popular.

 

Latest figures show that vinyl has already peaked and is still only a fraction of digital music.

 

Keith

[Harlequin]

Nearholmer said: It could even travel to your mate’s layout (provided he bought the same thing from Hornby) as part of its journey. Several layouts seamlessly linked via The Cloud.

 

 

Yes, I've thought a bit about that kind of idea.

 

This idea does not use VR but is just an app that connects layouts together in a virtual network in the cloud and allows the participants to run a train on a long virtual journey through several layouts.

 

You would register your layout name with the app and give a bit of information about the topology, e.g. how many stations, station names, how many tracks, termini or through, etc. and info about any junctions.

 

Then you could insert your station into any virtual network you fancy. Networks could be set up by anyone using the app, covering different regions, periods, real or fictional.

 

Once you had joined your layout to a network, appropriate traffic would get routed between your layout and the other layouts. Ideally you'd have stock exactly matching that on all the other layouts on the network, but a reasonable approximation would be acceptable, at least at first.

 

This could all get a lot more organised, with timetables and each app effectively being a signal box and sending bell codes to your neighbours up and down the virtual lines.

 

It would also be good to set up webcams (or use smartphone cameras) to share footage of the trains passing stations along the virtual line.

 

For example: Person A with the big terminus layout at the head of the virtual line, sends out the 9:43 express passenger service to location Z and person B gets a message saying it's on it's way. Everyone on the network, including Person B, can see the train leaving station A on the shared video feed. When he's ready Person B claims the shared video feed so everyone can see his layout, runs the express through his layout and warns Person C that it's on it's way. Etc., etc. all the way down to location Z where the train terminates.

 

 

The beauty of this idea is that the app can be standalone. It doesn't need to be electronically connected to a layout or for anyone to modify their layouts in any way to take part. It doesn't need any fancy hardware, just a smartphone, tablet or computer because it's just a communication system between people and people still run their layouts however they want. It's also completely agnostic about scale and control method.

 

The difficult part is writing the app and setting up the sophisticated cloud infrastructure to support it...

 

I commend this idea to the house - even though it is slightly off-topic. Sorry.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Harlequin