Graham Radish Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 As we all know trying to fit sound AND any form of stay alive in n gauge trains is very hard work, sometimes impossible, i started to think outside the box a little, my freighliner 70 was running pretty good with the occasional flicker of the lights, this is very very common on n gauge due to the contact space of the wheels being roughly half the size of that in OO gauge, so i thought the problem is obviously lying in the power delivery to the train, i'm really not a fan of stay alive capacitors, especially when your setup is on train controller where precision running is key. So out came my soldering iron, flux and phosphor bronze, after looking at the wheelsets i immediately thought of a cure to this problem, more pickups is always better right? of course, so i soldered an extra 4 pickups to the train, each middle wheelset now has dedicated power going into the train, and its now all wheel pickup, doing this was the best thing i ever did! damn she runs good now, i mean really good, not even the faintest sign of any light flicker at all, and slow running has been improved to the point she crawls over every single part of my track including insulfrog crossings and points. (my insulfrogs are hidden in a tunnel) So in a nutshell, if you have any graham farish locos with less than perfect running, do it! that extra 2 pickups on each wheelset has made a massive difference! Take care folks. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Hi Graham Nice to hear your labours have bourne fruit. N gauge isnt alone in suffering these woes - the Bachmann 40 has benefited from mods similar to those you describe to give all wheel pick-up and the 43 from additional wiper pick-ups . I guess its additional cost for manufacturers to fit these in the factory and as a significant proportion of models are in boxes or cabinets and never run then the manufacturers never hear of problems with this on a lot of models. Great to achieve such an improvement though Phil Edited January 23, 2019 by Phil Bullock 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Is it just me or is anyone else troubled by the increasingly common use of the word train to describe an engine. John K 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2019 Train is a generic word covering locomotives - with or without rolling stock - and units. An engine ...in diesels... is the prime mover for them both. Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 No Phil it is not. noun noun: train; plural noun: trains 1. a series of connected railway carriages or wagons moved by a locomotive or by integral motors. "a freight train" 2. a number of vehicles or pack animals moving in a line. "a camel train" synonyms: procession, line, file, column, convoy, cavalcade, caravan, queue, rank, string, succession, progression, array "a train of elephants dragging logs" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 To get back on topic Graham a good idea and a nice photo - thank you. To those of you that waste our time on grammatical nit picking - I am sure there is a chat group for you some where. This is a model railway chat group! Gordon A 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprintex Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) To those of you that waste our time on grammatical nit picking - I am sure there is a chat group for you some where. This is a model railway chat group! Well said. There are many ways to improve pickup on various locos or power units, as Phil said these models are designed with cost in mind more than ultimate running qualities and if you are confident enough to modify things yourself you can get some great improvements as you have found I've had trouble with bogie-to-chassis connections on both Dapol and Farish items, whether it's copper wipers bearing on metal chassis or springs used to conduct power onto contact strips, both can be improved by running fine wires (spare decoder wire) directly soldered between the bogie pickups and the track pickup points on the chassis, or in the case of hardwired decoders directly to the red/black wires. Paul Edited January 23, 2019 by Sprintex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Is it just me or is anyone else troubled by the increasingly common use of the word train to describe an engine. John K I got somewhat 'told off' for using the word "train" when I meant "loco".Yet... everyone knew what I meant. Was hardly worth the correction. Plus, the word "loco" doesn't fit right with a MU... Can you give an exmaple of the bronze you have bought? I'd love to add extra pickps to some locos I have but haven't found the right material to use as yet. Edited January 23, 2019 by Sir TophamHatt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Dent Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Is it just me or is anyone else troubled by the increasingly common use of the word train to describe an engine. John K ... and this adds exactly what to this thread?? Nice work Graham Edited January 23, 2019 by Art Dent 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Dent Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Can you give an example of the bronze you have bought? I'd love to add extra pickups to some locos I have but haven't found the right material to use as yet. Here you go STH. Try these links ... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Markits-M1-Phosphor-Bronze-Pickup-Strip-3-32-X-7-1-4-2-38mm-x-184-15mm/332082384748?hash=item4d51a70f6c:g:veAAAOSwRF1b1ypw:rk:1:pf:0 or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phosphor-Bronze-strips/282230234026?hash=item41b63b9baa:g:u1YAAOxy2CZTY4US:rk:3:pf:0 Just typed 'Phosphor Bronze Strip' into Ebay's search Art Edited January 23, 2019 by Art Dent 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Is it just me or is anyone else troubled by the increasingly common use of the word train to describe an engine. John K Or the increased use of the word engine to describe a locomotive? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 No Phil it is not. noun noun: train; plural noun: trains 1. a series of connected railway carriages or wagons moved by a locomotive or by integral motors. "a freight train" 2. a number of vehicles or pack animals moving in a line. "a camel train" synonyms: procession, line, file, column, convoy, cavalcade, caravan, queue, rank, string, succession, progression, array "a train of elephants dragging logs" So is a single unit (GWR railcar, class 121, 122 or 153) a train? Way off topic. sorry. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Radish Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Yea and how many times do people here say "im gonna play trains tonight" they never say "im gonna play locos" Still... You will go loco down in Acapulco if you stay there too long. Here you go, and you get some free decoder wire: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Gauge-Phosphor-Bronze-strips/282117385427?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Edited January 23, 2019 by Graham Radish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffTheRails Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Train, engine, locomotive, loco.....they all look pretty cool rumbling gently through a landscape, or running smoothly over points Thanks for the great tip! OTR 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffTheRails Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Train, engine, locomotive, loco.....they all look pretty cool rumbling gently through a landscape, or running smoothly over points Thanks for the great tip! OTR 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffTheRails Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 And look.....I posted twice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Radish Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 Is it just me or is anyone else troubled by the increasingly common use of the word train to describe an engine. John K When i was a small child, i was given a Trainset for christmas, not a locoset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) Is it just me or is anyone else troubled by the increasingly common use of the word train to describe an engine. John K If you want to be pedantic you need to get your terms right. Whilst engine can be synonymous with locomotive, strictly speaking it refers to the power plant, not the vehicle, rail or otherwise, in which it is installed. Locomotive is the correct term. But that wouldn't be right if someone was referring to programming the decoder in a multiple unit, and most people wouldn't refer to "the engine" in one. Power car or motor car or carriage migbt work better in those cases. As for the title of this topic, the OP probsbly meant loco as I'm sure it now runs better no matter what it's hauling or even running light. Edited January 27, 2019 by GoingUnderground Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted January 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2019 When i was a small child, i was given a Trainset for christmas, not a locoset. ...which no doubt included some rolling stock? i.e. a train... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) Going back to the topic, adding more pickups will improve current collection which will make for smoother running as there is less chance of an interruption of the current to the motor/decoder due to dirty track or wheels or dead frogs. But there is a trade-off in that extra pickups add extra friction. So there comes a point where all that extra pickups do is slow down the loco. The extra friction can be mimimised by keeping the spring pressure as low as possible and making the point of contact with the wheel as close to the axle as possible. That's what made the old split chassis such a clever design in theory as it eliminated wiper pickups and reduced the friction. Instead the point of contact between the half axle, which was electrically part of the wheel, and the half chassis was the pickup. Those points of contact are there anyway whether there were pickups or not. Edited January 27, 2019 by GoingUnderground Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryj Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 well it has certainly made the choo choos run better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Quote Well this always inspires me when I'm out in my shed...…………. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dougjuk Posted February 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) great post, I did the same with my Bachmann OO class 44 and Class 40. They were only picking up off of four wheels so I added another set of pickups for the rear axle of each bogie as well as a good clean and both locos run excellent now. Doug Edited February 3, 2019 by Dougjuk 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 On 27/01/2019 at 15:00, GoingUnderground said: Going back to the topic, adding more pickups will improve current collection which will make for smoother running as there is less chance of an interruption of the current to the motor/decoder due to dirty track or wheels or dead frogs. But there is a trade-off in that extra pickups add extra friction. So there comes a point where all that extra pickups do is slow down the loco. The extra friction can be mimimised by keeping the spring pressure as low as possible and making the point of contact with the wheel as close to the axle as possible... On powered wheelsets, modern can motors with a multistage gear train easily overcome the drag of pick up wipers. The old assessment of holding the loco back to see if it can slip its driven wheels as a precaution against weight stalling a loco when given power, applies to pick ups too. I set pick up wipers on my OO firmly enough to positively recentre wheelsets when the loco is off track, and they still slip the driven wheels when held back even at dead slow, so there's no traction loss even there and they still make full scale speed too. On 27/01/2019 at 15:00, GoingUnderground said: ...That's what made the old split chassis such a clever design in theory as it eliminated wiper pickups and reduced the friction. Instead the point of contact between the half axle, which was electrically part of the wheel, and the half chassis was the pickup. Those points of contact are there anyway whether there were pickups or not. Executed with superior materials choices and constructions than were seen on the likes of the Mainline and Bachmann split chassis steam mechanisms it is ideal. Some current mechanisms still use it most effectively 'unannounced'. For example I cannot fault the pick up and resulting running of the several Hornby Brush 2 and Bachmann Cravens DMU mechs on my layout. But where this technique really shines is on unpowered wheelsets, where any incremental friction is a thief of traction. Check out the rollability of Bachmann's coaches with internal lighting, picking up current via split axle pinpoints. That's the way to do it, and I wish this technique could be standardised on steam loco tenders, if pick ups are to be fitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 May I ask what specification (i.e. thickness and width) of phosphor bronze that you used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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