Empty box ethics

[47137]

I just sold an empty box. This came about because I broke a new model for parts, and sold on the unwanted parts and eventually the box as well.

 

Is selling the box an ethical thing to do? I keep my models and their boxes apart because I imagine, selling a stolen model without a box is tricky. But of course if a thief can buy an empty box for a model taken from wherever and then their sale looks more legitimate.

 

This cardboard box made me as much money as a wagon or indeed a second-hand coach, but should I have put it out with the recycling?

 

- Richard.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There 's no ethical issue, no one is twisting the arm of the purchaser.

[Dunsignalling]

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it, if I were you.

 

There are plenty of legitimate used models sold without boxes or in plain replacements, either because the previous owner ditched them or they got badly damaged.

 

OK, a loco in the right packaging is worth a bit (sometimes a lot) more, but I doubt many thieves would take the time and trouble to hunt down and acquire the correct box to help cover their tracks. I'd think most probably want to turn their ill-gotten gains into cash a.s.a.p.

 

John

Edited January 24, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

I don't see an ethical issue here at all, unless you are claiming the box to be a rare collectors item when it isn't.  This is likely to be tempting to sellers of 'retro' models who claim that their tatty old box which has been dog eared and torn since 1956 is a 'classic' item; a box for a model bought recently and broken for spares does not come in to this category.

 

I also keep my boxes separate from the models, but not to deter thieves so much as that the space I have to keep them in is not near the layout!

[Mike Buckner]

It's a bit like selling a carving knife. SOMEBODY might use it for nefarious purposes. But that's not reason to suspect all customers.

[kevinlms]

I just sold an empty box. This came about because I broke a new model for parts, and sold on the unwanted parts and eventually the box as well.

 

Is selling the box an ethical thing to do? I keep my models and their boxes apart because I imagine, selling a stolen model without a box is tricky. But of course if a thief can buy an empty box for a model taken from wherever and then their sale looks more legitimate.

 

This cardboard box made me as much money as a wagon or indeed a second-hand coach, but should I have put it out with the recycling?

 

- Richard.

You have a few choices

 

1/ Keep the box

2/ Destroy the box

3/ Sell the box.

 

With 3/ Short of asking them what they are going to do with the box (they will only give one answer anyway - I lost/damaged mine and want a replacement), you have to take it on face value. The exception is if you know of a collection was stolen nearby!

[MJI]

I just ended up recycling all my old ones as stock has been moving into Really Useful Boxes as sets.

 

When ONE vehicle design has three different boxes they look messy. Airfix GMR Mainline

['CHARD]

Fill your boots, absolutely nothing to worry about here.  I sometimes like to destroy the box and stick it in with the cardboard and paper recycling, but only when it is potentially collectable and its former contents have been 'repurposed.'

 

That way I'm doing a favour to the owners of the dwindling stock of said item by increasing its scarcity value.  In reality I simply can't be bothered putting tat on Ebay for the length of time it takes to sell 

[dvdlcs]

Not unusual. I've both sold and bought empty boxes, either to offload something that I don't have the contents for or to pick up a box for something that I had previously acquired unboxed, or in the wrong box.

 

As someone else said, the box is yours to sell should you so wish. If someone wants it, they will bid for / make an offer for / buy it.

[ELTEL]

Think of it this way.

 

You are recycling it for money.

 

I would

 

Eltel

[47137]

There 's no ethical issue, no one is twisting the arm of the purchaser.

As I write, your post has 8 likes.

 

Well ... to my mind, ethics extends beyond force, to include for example facilitation. However, given the number of likes here I see myself very much in the minority.

 

I am glad I made the post, and grateful for all of the replies.

 

- Richard.

[Captain Kernow]

You have a few choices

 

1/ Keep the box

2/ Destroy the box

3/ Sell the box.

 

Or let James May dispose of it.

[kevinlms]

Or let James May dispose of it.

He might make a huge one, like for his Spitfire kit!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... to my mind, ethics extends beyond force, to include for example facilitation...

If you start considering the consequences of all your actions in terms of what they potentially facilitate, that's a swift path to paralysis. Responsibility for your own actions, and direct example and advocacy of the ethical stance you believe correct is as much as you can do.

[Clive Mortimore]

Model railway boxes are great for getting a garden bonfire going, all that foam or expanded polystyrene soon gets the heat up for burning all those green cuttings. 

[hayfield]

I am a great believer of recycling parts and boxes to either a collector or someone who likes to keep things boxed up can in the former instance greatly increase the value of the item or latter provide something not commercially available

 

I have quite a few kit built locos which either I bought unboxed or the box the kit came in is unsuitable/ unable to keep the loco in. I quite often buy boxes from Southeastern Finecast or Cheltenham Models, I do however refuse to pay what I believe to be extortionate rates by some sellers

[Guest CLARENCE]

All arguments and comments aside, are we not talking about an empty cardboard box? I truly do not understand  what you are all fussing about. With my models, if  I keep them in their boxes as received, I keep boxes. Otherwise, I throw 'em out, they're no good, useless packing.

 

It's the model that counts!

[Mike Storey]

The reason that boxes are valuable is because it makes the original model more valuable. Others are making quite a few sovs out of this, but out of goodness knows whom. No reason why you should not cash in?

 

Caveat emptor.....

[hayfield]

Or if like me you buy second hand kit built locos or kits that come in packages smaller than the finished item boxes are very useful.  Yes I could go out and buy small parcel/packet boxes, but those designed to hold rolling stock usually afford far more protection.

 

For the collector it can make a lot of difference to its value, whilst I am not interesting in that side of collecting whatever the item condition and boxes make an awful lot of difference to somethings value

[timbowilts]

I’m afraid that most of my boxes end up in recycling. Without them, together with the acompanying plastic, they takeup half the volume!

I don’t sell them as I can’t be bothered with all the hassle of online auction sites. Others obviously have more patience

 

Tim T

[Peter Kazmierczak]

As long as you clearly state that you're selling an EMPTY box, then no problem.

[Talltim]

As long as you clearly state that you're selling an EMPTY box, then no problem.

Was just coming to say that

[47137]

My reasoning behind posting this topic is this. Models get stolen - from people's homes and from exhibitions. I acknowledge some of these are stolen to order and their boxes are irrelevant, but others are stolen for sale. A model in a box sells more easily and gets more money than a model without.

 

I do a shift in a charity shop most weeks, and it is here I first encountered "career thieves". The people I am thinking of steal to fuel their addiction; but other people steal to make money. It's their business model. Such people can invest a few pounds in an empty cardboard box to help their stock sell.

 

I can imagine some boundaries: perhaps a box given given to a friend, or sold to a known dealer. It is easy enough to see the dangers of giving the keys to a Ferrari to a 17-year old; but what are the limits for an empty, innocuous, but nevertheless original and branded cardboard box? Or, how do we find these limits? Maybe the limits are set by personal judgement of the scarcity and desirability of the model in question. I don't know.

 

- Richard.

[Andy Hayter]

I understand the point you are making and understand your angst; but an anaolgy would be that I will not sell my old car in case someone then had too much to drink and drove it causing damage or worse.

 

Responsibility has to stop somewhere, and a sale in good faith is just that point.  It ends your responsibility.  

[trustytrev]

Hello,

      The ideal would be boxes and packaging that flatpack for storage when the contents are in use. Then when we die the inheritors would have to match all those items with their appropriate boxes to shift them on..

It could create a whole new industry with jobs for those doing it known as box matchers. Or they could just sell them seperately I suppose.

Or not maybe.

trustytrev.