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New 2019 Class 31


Krieghoff
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You may well be right Keieghoff, that another run of the full fat 31 will yield some spare chassis'.  I wouldn't expect Hornby to be selling them through the likes of Rails and Hattons, but they may well turn up through the likes of Peter's Spares.  Ultimately, none of us know for sure and you'll frequently see opinion portrayed as fact.  You get used to it.

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On 2/2/2019 at 7:48 PM, caradoc said:

 

Can I ask where that information came from ? Not sure why a retool should be necessary, given that the early problem with the chassis was a material rather than design issue.

 

I spoke with my local retailer before they went to the Hornby open day. When they returned the said Hornby had said that the 31 has a retooled chassis and the original body would not fit. I assume this is because of different lighting / coupling  arrangements.

 

Luke

 

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2 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

I spoke with my local retailer before they went to the Hornby open day. When they returned the said Hornby had said that the 31 has a retooled chassis and the original body would not fit. I assume this is because of different lighting / coupling  arrangements.

 

Luke

 

 

Almost certainly in reference to the old Lima tooling, now the Railroad 31 I’d have thought 

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9 hours ago, Foden said:

 

Almost certainly in reference to the old Lima tooling, now the Railroad 31 I’d have thought 

In the old mazak thread, someone tried fitting a newer full phat post Sanda Kan chassis to an older full phat Sanda Kan body and said the casting had been retooled.

Edited by bigherb
Stil not sure how to spell sanda kan
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  • 2 weeks later...

In my past life I did repairs for local model shops, at that time Hornby had a published list of official Service Agents. The published service sheets showed all parts available as spares and the shops I dealt with had a substantial range in stock, or could get them at short notice from Margate. This of course is in the era of the Triang type of designs which continued for many years, up to the move to China really.

With the China production taking over, Hornby have outsourced there design/build such that they ask for a run of "Loco A" and, eventually that is what they get. It is difficult to get spares added to that run as well as costly**. They have abandoned the idea of stocking spares, this is now done by outsiders (such as Peters Spares). I am not privy as to their source, but suspect that they may break locos down for spares, or possibly have an arrangement with Hornby. (Maybe any "extras" from the build run are shipped over?). Hornby do not stock spares any more. In my experience however, I have managed to get some spares from them, but they freely admited they were from locos they were breaking (faulty returns from shops). I managed to get a 31 chassis block for my 31 from the 1st batch that way - foc too! - to which I then transferred all the bits from the one with Mazak rot.

I'm led to believe that all the "Hornby" 31 chassis (ie NOT the Railroad version) are basically the same design, but different models have different characteristics to suit each version, so are not immediately interchangeable as a complete running chassis.

** This concept of batch production runs, outsourced, (and possibly actually made in different factories) leads on to other problems. To take one example, if a Britannia has a suitable tender for another loco such as a Clan, they have to design another tender (identical type) along with its production tools, for the 2nd loco.

 

Stewart 

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It appears to me that Hornby have made a tooling error with this bodyshell by including the engineroom bodyside grilles  which only appeared on the re-engined examples of 31/0's from the mid sixties. However D5504, D5515 and D5519 did have these fitted beforehand to 'B' side whilst D5507 and D5517 had them on 'A' side, but only whilst they had the footsteps in the nose ends. The original tooling for this version R2420 & R2420A had the correct plain doors, so someone has clearly altered the tooling without checking the era.  What a shame!

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19 hours ago, BrushVeteran said:

It appears to me that Hornby have made a tooling error with this bodyshell by including the engineroom bodyside grilles  which only appeared on the re-engined examples of 31/0's from the mid sixties. However D5504, D5515 and D5519 did have these fitted beforehand to 'B' side whilst D5507 and D5517 had them on 'A' side, but only whilst they had the footsteps in the nose ends. The original tooling for this version R2420 & R2420A had the correct plain doors, so someone has clearly altered the tooling without checking the era.  What a shame!

 

Damn. Now I have to decide if I can live with the knowledge!

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On 16/02/2019 at 00:46, BrushVeteran said:

It appears to me that Hornby have made a tooling error with this bodyshell by including the engineroom bodyside grilles  which only appeared on the re-engined examples of 31/0's from the mid sixties. However D5504, D5515 and D5519 did have these fitted beforehand to 'B' side whilst D5507 and D5517 had them on 'A' side, but only whilst they had the footsteps in the nose ends. The original tooling for this version R2420 & R2420A had the correct plain doors, so someone has clearly altered the tooling without checking the era.  What a shame!

 

You mean the engine room body side doors ?

British Railways Brush Type 2 D5500 (Class 31, 31018)

Vs

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/10701/Hornby_R2420_Class_31_D5512_in_BR_green/StockDetail.aspx

 

against the new one..

https://www.hattons.co.uk/430665/Hornby_R3661_Class_31_D5509_in_BR_green/StockDetail.aspx

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3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

D5500 there does not appear to have the nose end footstep holes shown on Hornby's D5509 and D5512

 

Would Hornby's body  be accurate for D5507??

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On 02/02/2019 at 23:30, richierich said:

This is in my opinion the super detailed tooling, is a superior model to the former Lima, now Hornby Railroad Class 31 released in recent years. 

 

The great thing about this hobby is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, luckily some of us may disagree!

 

Mike.

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49 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

D5500 there does not appear to have the nose end footstep holes shown on Hornby's D5509 and D5512

 

Would Hornby's body  be accurate for D5507??

Yes I would clarify that I meant the grilles in the bodyside doors.

 

D5507 did receive a grille in its 'A' side engineroom door from approx 1962 whilst it carried the later green livery with half yellow panels and no grey relief around the cab windows. It had by then also had the cab front footsteps added by then. These were added quite early on in the loco's life, possibly 1960-1.

To answers Ravensers question then Hornby's latest release could be made into D5507 by adding the end footsteps and filling in 'B' side grilles. You would also need to add the extra cabside numbers that were added after about a year in service.

 

What I was trying to point out in my original post is that the original Hornby release of 2003 (R2420) was more accurate than the latest release.

 

D5500 was a bit of an oddball in that it never received the cab end footsteps at all, nor the windscreen washer covers/'ears'. It did receive the engineroom bodyside door grilles but only when it was re-engined and painted into blue livery.

 

I've attached my photo of D5509 taken in 1967 illustrating the differences. Hope this all helps!

6246313464_6f4a5beceb_o.jpg

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2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

The great thing about this hobby is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, luckily some of us may disagree!

 

Mike.

I always believe in the law of ebay. It’s a direct demonstration of Charles Darwin in action

 

if the price is higher for one over another or there’s a glut or shortage there is a reason.

 

Lima class 31’s are not overwhelming present on ebay and their relative sales price is higher than peer classes modelled by Lima.

 

so there must be something in that.

 

personally Lima 31’s (and 92’s) are a fleet I’ve not downsized. Where as I’ve no Lima 66’s.

 

That said I’ve a few Hornby 31’s when the price was <£100 and they were not biodegrable, but at the £170 level the urge isn’t their when the variety offered is very slim.

 

I think demand is there for 31’s but the supply isn’t and what’s being offered isn’t as desirable as other potential options that could be. Given the models history and perceived issues, potential for liveries and popularity, especially in the early 1990’s, that combination of reasons I see a class 31 as prime poaching candidate by another vendor, especially given the railroad equivalent has its own issues.

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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On 23/02/2019 at 19:37, adb968008 said:

I always believe in the law of ebay. It’s a direct demonstration of Charles Darwin in action

 

if the price is higher for one over another or there’s a glut or shortage there is a reason.

 

Lima class 31’s are not overwhelming present on ebay and their relative sales price is higher than peer classes modelled by Lima.

 

so there must be something in that.

 

personally Lima 31’s (and 92’s) are a fleet I’ve not downsized. Where as I’ve no Lima 66’s.

 

That said I’ve a few Hornby 31’s when the price was <£100 and they were not biodegrable, but at the £170 level the urge isn’t their when the variety offered is very slim.

 

I think demand is there for 31’s but the supply isn’t and what’s being offered isn’t as desirable as other potential options that could be. Given the models history and perceived issues, potential for liveries and popularity, especially in the early 1990’s, that combination of reasons I see a class 31 as prime poaching candidate by another vendor, especially given the railroad equivalent has its own issues.

 

 

 

I’d agree, the 31 has a lot of mileage and covers a long time period. Super  detailed model is very good. But they’ve not capitalised on the liveries possible, especially during the mid 80s to the end of the 90s, and there is plenty to go at too! Instead choice of obsecure liveries like BAR. Even the BR Blue skinhead 31, is quite a restricted choice, when the more common head code box variant would be more logic! A re-furnished BR Blue 31/4 would be a pretty logic model to issue several times with different running numbers. 

 

As you, it a model where someone else might produce an even better super detail model, who understands the demand for 31s. 

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I have contacted Hornby regarding the issue of spare class 31 chassis blocks and there reply was the new chassis would not be compatible with the old mazak rot chassis, therefore the chassis is deemed to be a brand new tooling, we wait tosee as i will purchase one of the new locos to see if its just an effort to fob me off ??

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19 hours ago, napierdeltic18 said:

I have contacted Hornby regarding the issue of spare class 31 chassis blocks and there reply was the new chassis would not be compatible with the old mazak rot chassis, therefore the chassis is deemed to be a brand new tooling, we wait tosee as i will purchase one of the new locos to see if its just an effort to fob me off ??

Not sure I buy that response. But not seen a chassis from the latest production.

 

Edited by richierich
Grammer error.
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21 hours ago, napierdeltic18 said:

I have contacted Hornby regarding the issue of spare class 31 chassis blocks and there reply was the new chassis would not be compatible with the old mazak rot chassis, therefore the chassis is deemed to be a brand new tooling, we wait tosee as i will purchase one of the new locos to see if its just an effort to fob me off ??

 

Can you post some pictures on here please.

Edited by phil-b259
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  • 7 months later...

There’s a couple of professional reworks of Railfreight non red stripe 31’s on an internet auction site at the moment and they are at some serious big money with 4 days still to go. It shows me the demand for this livery and others previously not released would be big. A blue 31/4 for example. Or Intercity Mainline 31/4. Same goes for another release of the HST power cars in Executive livery. (Correct white not silver lettering) One going for £499 on the same internet site. Come on Hornby. There’s cash waiting here! 
66738

Edited by 66738
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12 minutes ago, 66738 said:

There’s a couple of professional reworks of Railfreight non red stripe 31’s on an internet auction site at the moment and they are at some serious big money with 4 days still to go. It shows me the demand for this livery and others previously not released would be big. A blue 31/4 for example. Or Intercity Mainline 31/4. Same goes for another release of the HST power cars in Executive livery. (Correct white not silver lettering) One going for £499 on the same internet site. Come on Hornby. There’s cash waiting here! 
66738

They did not do themselves any favours before.

Hornby were never too good at changing the running number between batches. They also seem to like picking unusual examples, like the engineers' dutch 31 which was a skinhead with upside down roof cowling.

There were loads more 31/1s with headcode boxes. If they had done one of these in dutch I may have bought 2 or 3 then got the transfers out.

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On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 19:16, BrushVeteran said:

What I was trying to point out in my original post is that the original Hornby release of 2003 (R2420) was more accurate than the latest release.

 

I suspect all options are still available as part of Hornby's tooling suite. It's just that after the first production run, there seems to be less control or checking to ensure that the correct tooling options are specified and used by the factory.

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The other two 2019 Class 31's arrived this morning, and look fantastic. So much so, a BR Blue version may have just been popped into my bag, heading back too Crooked Lane this evening!

 

49137044787_c21a7ce7c3_c.jpg

R3746 BR Blue Class 31 - 31102 by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

49137044747_29f8f19410_c.jpg

R3746 BR Blue Class 31 - 31102 by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

49136358218_fa1ee98152_c.jpg

R3745 Network Rail Class 31 by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

49136847866_e6a85d6a51_c.jpg

R3745 Network Rail Class 31 by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

49136847781_6b052945e2_c.jpg

R3745 Network Rail Class 31 by Derails Models, on Flickr

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