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Best Bachmann donor for one-flush end class 47?

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I have found a few class 47s (sector livery) I would like to model but they had only one flush end. Given the Bachmann 47 cab end is part of the moulding/not replacable, what is the best Bachmann donor to model these?

 

All the Bachmann 47 models i find seem to have no flush ends, or both ("Pectinidae"), never just one.

Edited by faa77

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Guest teacupteacup

You would maybe be better getting hold of a Lima shell and grafting the flush panel on?

 

Another detail to be wary of is that a lot of flush fronted 47s had cut away buffer beams too

Edited by teacupteacup

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50 minutes ago, teacupteacup said:

Another detail to be wary of is that a lot of flush fronted 47s had cut away buffer beams too

 

Hi, thanks for your reply. Could you possibly elaborate on this? I'm not entirely sure exactly what you mean. Could you show a photo?

Edited by faa77

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On 01/02/2019 at 16:20, faa77 said:

I have found a few class 47s (sector livery) I would like to model but they had only one flush end. Given the Bachmann 47 cab end is part of the moulding/not replacable, what is the best Bachmann donor to model these?

 

All the Bachmann 47 models i find seem to have no flush ends, or both ("Pectinidae"), never just one.

 

This sort of question comes up time and time again and it’s very, very difficult to answer unless you specify an exact loco and time frame you are modelling.

 

The detail differences are so numerous that only by specifying your preferred loco can you get an acceptable answer.

 

The knowledge is out there, but you have to help.

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Guest teacupteacup
4 hours ago, faa77 said:

 

Hi, thanks for your reply. Could you possibly elaborate on this? I'm not entirely sure exactly what you mean. Could you show a photo?

This pic shows the modification made to quite a few 47s

 

Have a look on class47.co.uk, pick a loco and study the detail differences, as said about there a numerous differences between 47's, most noticeable being...

 

  • Flush cab fronts
  • Cut away bufferbeams/lower cabs
  • Underbody fuel tanks and battery boxes

 

Make sure you check which end the flush front is at too!

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only Bach 47 that I know of that has flush one end only is 47835 Windsor Castle - this one Bach had bodyshells re-supplied as the original lower bodyside was wrong colour - they were never released this way as was corrected on release - however Bach must have sold off the defective bodyshells separately at some point as they do pop up for decent prices (I paid £10 for mine).

 

The other alternative is to go Vitrains route where both 47347 & 47197 in triple grey metals / petroleum both had flush one end / normal other.

 

All of the above don't have cutaway buffer beams

 

Hope this helps,

M

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40 minutes ago, teacupteacup said:

This pic shows the modification made to quite a few 47s

 

Have a look on class47.co.uk, pick a loco and study the detail differences, as said about there a numerous differences between 47's, most noticeable being...

 

  • Flush cab fronts
  • Cut away bufferbeams/lower cabs
  • Underbody fuel tanks and battery boxes

 

Make sure you check which end the flush front is at too!

 

Hi, I have checked flush/ends and fuel tanks, I was just struggling to see the difference between a cut-through beam (and a non-cut through)?

 

Regarding fuel tanks, I found Bachmann provide three different configurations (sorry I don't know the different names) across their 47 models (see images below). Are there any more? 

 

image.png.557306cfd162b48383a16ac5cd7c4fed.png

image.png.3788d4c768c195e963ef5ab7c7e62c2a.png

image.png.0b848355f714c80cfe9ae699249629b4.png

 

 

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Ah, is this a "cut away" buffer beam? There is no protruding part immediately-below the yellow frontage? 

 

image.png.c4cccc1f83afc81b9abb7a9ab022018d.png

Edited by faa77

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Guest teacupteacup

Yep thats it, the easiest way to tell is the line along the bottom of the bodyshell - if it steps up at under the cabs, then that loco has the bufferbeam cowling removed.  Have  a look at the picture of 47365 you posted above and you'll see what I mean

 

If my memory serves me correct, not all loco's had both ends done (just to throw yet another spanner in the detailing works)!

Edited by teacupteacup

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2 hours ago, teacupteacup said:

Yep thats it, the easiest way to tell is the line along the bottom of the bodyshell - if it steps up at under the cabs, then that loco has the bufferbeam cowling removed.  Have  a look at the picture of 47365 you posted above and you'll see what I mean

 

If my memory serves me correct, not all loco's had both ends done (just to throw yet another spanner in the detailing works)!

 

Yeah, I found another photo where you could clearly see the "missing" component. 

 

Are there any more tank configurations I missed above/has Bachmann covered most of them across those three models?

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The only other variation is the white painted pipework, just above the fuel tanks, that was fitted to the original Scottish Push-Pull 47/7s (not sure if it was fitted to any others ?). 

 

Can I direct you to this discussion which covers you question about tanks and battery boxes....

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/110886-class-47-fuel-tankbattery-box-arrangement/

 

 

Edited by wirey33
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Just to give you a clue what you're up against...

 

Fuel Tanks/Battery Boxes

Buffer Cowlings

Flush Ends

ETH Receptacle Position

Headlight Position

Marker Light Position

Boiler Port Variations

Liveries

Variations of Liveries

Number Position Variations

Number Size Variations

Depot Plaques

Depot Embellishments (i.e Dogs, Castle, Stags etc.)

 

and one that never gets mentioned....

 

Brush or Crewe built.

 

 

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On 05/02/2019 at 09:44, wirey33 said:

Just to give you a clue what you're up against...

 

Fuel Tanks/Battery Boxes

Buffer Cowlings

Flush Ends

ETH Receptacle Position

Headlight Position

Marker Light Position

Boiler Port Variations

Liveries

Variations of Liveries

Number Position Variations

Number Size Variations

Depot Plaques

Depot Embellishments (i.e Dogs, Castle, Stags etc.)

 

and one that never gets mentioned....

 

Brush or Crewe built.

 

 

 

Hope you don't mind I have a few questions:

 

1. Brush or Crewe-built: surely this isn't an actual difference, it just explains some of the aforementioned differences?

2. Are battery boxes completely different to fuel tanks ? I understand there are 3 fuel tank arrangements- does this mean I have no more to learn regarding battery boxes?

3. Could you please elaborate upon Boiler Port Variations and Marker Light Position?

 

The rest of your list I have a good understanding of.

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On 06/02/2019 at 22:36, faa77 said:

 

Hope you don't mind I have a few questions:

 

1. Brush or Crewe-built: surely this isn't an actual difference, it just explains some of the aforementioned differences?

2. Are battery boxes completely different to fuel tanks ? I understand there are 3 fuel tank arrangements- does this mean I have no more to learn regarding battery boxes?

3. Could you please elaborate upon Boiler Port Variations and Marker Light Position?

 

The rest of your list I have a good understanding of.

 

Some answers...

 

1.         Nope – there are differences between the BR and Brush built versions and these are a detail difference in their own right. Just because a loco was built at Crewe or Loughborough does not exclude it from having any of the other                  differences already listed.

2.         Well apart from Fuel tanks being full of fuel and battery boxes being full of batteries ?!?! I do not claim to be an expert on this subject – the photos above seem to cover the variations but observation is the best way to learn.

3a.       Three different boiler ports for three different boilers (although two are fairly similar).

3b.       Marker light positions varied due to different works/depots carrying out the work. Some are higher in the headcode box, some are close together.

 

The “tell” for a Brush v Crewe loco is the eyebrows above the front windows. Look at the two shots linked below and you’ll see. The Loughborough built locos eyebrows meet in the middle. The Crewe locos do not meet in the middle. It’s subtle, but it’ll be clear but when you see it.

 

Brush Built : https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/13002007453

 

BR Crewe Built : https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/37771665952

 

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19 hours ago, wirey33 said:

 

The “tell” for a Brush v Crewe loco is the eyebrows above the front windows. Look at the two shots linked below and you’ll see. The Loughborough built locos eyebrows meet in the middle. The Crewe locos do not meet in the middle. It’s subtle, but it’ll be clear but when you see it.

 

Brush Built : https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/13002007453

 

BR Crewe Built : https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/37771665952

 

i never knew that!  What's more, neither did my mate who worked for Brush at Loughborough in the early 60s! 

 

Thanks for the info.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry to hijack this thread. I'm looking to model 47326 in its late 90's condition. Would 47306 be a decent donor? I've had a look, and it seems right, except the real loco has different marker lights at each end, and I'm not sure if the model does or not? Are there any other differences? 

(not my photos)

47326_090298

 

47326 pulls into Didcot Parkway Station while working a Newport ADJ to Wembley service when seen on 11-4-97. Copyright Ian Cuthbertson


Thanks in advance for any help!

Rich

Edited by richscylla

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Well if you have got a class 37 then you need to do a lot of work on it . To make it look like a class 47 :rolleyes:

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Oh goodness! It's been a long day, 47326 and 47306! - I'll edit the original post!

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Posted (edited)

Bachmann's 47306 is a good match for 47326. Both Brush built examples. All the 47/3's had sealed boiler ports, so no issues there. The era you're looking at, almost all of the them had had the "Crewe Cut" i.e. skirts removed.

 

A brief glance at a Flickr shot of 47306 shows the liveries match; just the multiple working receptacle on No.2 end may be a slightly different position ? But that's being really picky.

 

 

 

 

47306.jpg

Edited by wirey33
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On 01/02/2019 at 15:20, faa77 said:

I have found a few class 47s (sector livery) I would like to model but they had only one flush end. Given the Bachmann 47 cab end is part of the moulding/not replacable, what is the best Bachmann donor to model these?

 

All the Bachmann 47 models i find seem to have no flush ends, or both ("Pectinidae"), never just one.

 

Bachmann's L/E 47 461 Charles Rennie Mac has a flush No 1 end with original BB cowls - but these can fetch silly money now...........as already stated 47 835 has a flush No 2 end but with cut away BB's.  VI trains and Heljan also produced a few 47's with flushed ends.

HTH

 

 

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4 hours ago, wirey33 said:

Bachmann's 47306 is a good match for 47326. Both Brush built examples. All the 47/3's had sealed boiler ports, so no issues there. The era you're looking at, almost all of the them had had the "Crewe Cut" i.e. skirts removed.

 

A brief glance at a Flickr shot of 47306 shows the liveries match; just the multiple working receptacle on No.2 end may be a slightly different position ? But that's being really picky.

 

 

 

 

47306.jpg

 Thanks very much for the info.

The other option I was looking at was 47200 - but I believe this has Class 37 buffers at one end. Do you know if the buffers are interchangeable between Bachmann's 37 and 47 models?

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