Applying Modelmaster decals

[jamespetts]

I tried Modelmaster decals for the first time this evening after previously having used Fox/Railtec quite successfully for N gauge modern image. The Modelmaster decals were for 1930s era 00 gauge - a Bachmann Atlantic.

 

I was not able to get such a good finish with these as I am accustomed to getting with Railtec/Fox transfers; the backing paper seems thicker and more noticeable, and I found it difficult to get the transfers to stay in place when mopping up the excess water with a cotton bud which I do not find a problem with the other types. Even using MicroSol/Set and after a coat of matt varnish is the backing paper visible when viewed at certain angles.

 

Is this a known issue with these types of transfers; is there a different technique needed to make the most of these? Is this possibly a result of the transfers being larger than those to which I am accustomed in 1:148?

[jwealleans]

I've only used them in 4mm, but you get best results applying them on a gloss background.  As far as i remember you are also supposed to be able to pull the clear sheet away when it's dry, leaving the lettering behind.  I've never been brave enough to do it except accidentally, but I have found that you can dissolve it with white spirit and dab it away with cotton buds.

[jamespetts]

4 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I've only used them in 4mm, but you get best results applying them on a gloss background.  As far as i remember you are also supposed to be able to pull the clear sheet away when it's dry, leaving the lettering behind.  I've never been brave enough to do it except accidentally, but I have found that you can dissolve it with white spirit and dab it away with cotton buds.

 

Interesting - I was not aware of being able to pull away the backing, and the instructions do not, so far as I recall, refer to this.

 

I did apply them to a gloss surface: I use Brasso to remove the old numbers, which also shines the underlying surface: to that, I apply the decals, and then cover with a matt aerosol varnish afterwards.

[jamespetts]

Here is an illustration of what I mean: even after using Microsol and a fairly heavy coat of varnish, the backing paper is still quite visible.

[Snowdon Ranger]

For consistent results you should always apply transfer/decals over a high gloss surface, 2 or 3 light coats of Humbrol Gloss clear will do the job.

 

Use the setting solutions as you have done, When thoroughly dry, you can remove the carrier film (the backing paper is the bit you leave behind when you slide the transfer off), by either 'grabbing' it with a piece of low tack masking tape, or my prefered method, lifting the edge with a stiff brush enough to get a grip with some tweezers. Do this before sealing with varnish.

 

Seal with Gloss varnish, rather than matt. You can matt coat over the gloss, if that's you're preferred finish. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Darren.

 

(The image below is a ModelMaster transfer that has been applied using the method above)

[jamespetts]

Thank you for the tips - that is helpful. I did create a gloss finish, not with varnish, but by polishing with Brasso (which is also the method for transfer removal). May I ask why the decals should be sealed with gloss rather than matt varnish? I have not had problems sealing other decals with matt.

[Snowdon Ranger]

A polished surface and a gloss surface are not the same. Polishing will scour the surface which could cause problems with the transfer sitting onto the surface, which will cause silvering. Gloss varnish coat is the best option, several thin layers being the prefered method. It does help if you have an airbrush.

 

Transfers are sealed with gloss varnish because it flows better and is not prone to blooming (the white powdery finish) that matt varnish can be susceptible too. 

 

If you use a gloss acrylic varnish to seal your transfer and then use a matt enamel varnish, should the matt varnish bloom you can remove the enamel varnish with a brush moistened with enamel thinners. When used in small amounts enamel thinners will not affect acrylic, which means the transfers are not affected.

 

Sealing enamels with acrylic varnish is also how you seal and protect a top coat before weathering, or a layer of weathering before moving onto the next stage.

 

It's what the military modelers have done for years, and it works. 

 

Regards,

Darren. 

[MarkNJ]

Back in the day the rule was to match the sealing coat to the decal. Some decals had a matte finish and some a gloss finish. Once that has cured you can then use your preferred final finish.

A high gloss base is the only way to get a consistent quality finish with water slide decals be they matte or gloss.

 

Mark

[Right Away]

On 08/02/2019 at 14:00, Snowdon Ranger said:

For consistent results you should always apply transfer/decals over a high gloss surface, 2 or 3 light coats of Humbrol Gloss clear will do the job.

 

Use the setting solutions as you have done, When thoroughly dry, you can remove the carrier film (the backing paper is the bit you leave behind when you slide the transfer off), by either 'grabbing' it with a piece of low tack masking tape, or my prefered method, lifting the edge with a stiff brush enough to get a grip with some tweezers. Do this before sealing with varnish.

 

Seal with Gloss varnish, rather than matt. You can matt coat over the gloss, if that's you're preferred finish. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Darren.

 

(The image below is a ModelMaster transfer that has been applied using the method above)

 

Incredible weathering!

 

[tractor_37260]

On 04/02/2019 at 02:23, jamespetts said:

 

Interesting - I was not aware of being able to pull away the backing, and the instructions do not, so far as I recall, refer to this.

 

I did apply them to a gloss surface: I use Brasso to remove the old numbers, which also shines the underlying surface: to that, I apply the decals, and then cover with a matt aerosol varnish afterwards.

 

Not all Modelmaster transfers have a removal varnish coating - only those marked similar to below:

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by tractor_37260

[jamespetts]

Returning to this topic for a moment - may I ask what sort of gloss varnish that people recommend for pre-treating the surface to which the transfers are to be applied? I have some Phoenix Precision Paints clear gloss varnish, which I believe is enamel - is this suitable, or is there a reason to use an acrylic varnish?

[MarkNJ]

Hi there,

 

Yes it is suitable. Just make sure you let it fully cure before applying decals. I use an automotive acrylic hi gloss, this works very well.

 

Mark

[Ray H]

It's a bit ironic that this thread should pop up again today as I'm about to try yet again to put some decals onto an O gauge 1F where the bunker side is only just wide enough to take the chosen number - 41734.

 

I tried first to cut as close to the edge of the numerals as I could when removing them from the full sheet. There didn't appear to be enough strength left in the numeral/film to hold it all together and the numerals all split as I slid them off the backing "card" onto the bunker side.

 

I eventually managed to get two complete numbers onto the loco but only by cutting a rectangle around the numeral. That result is as mentioned above, still showing the uncovered bits of film. Am I correct in my interpretation of the above that the printed numeral can be removed from the backing film? I didn't completely understand how this is achieved from what was said above. Could someone please clarify this for me?

 

Many thanks.

[jamespetts]

4 hours ago, MarkNJ said:

Hi there,

 

Yes it is suitable. Just make sure you let it fully cure before applying decals. I use an automotive acrylic hi gloss, this works very well.

 

Mark

 

Thank you for that. I had wondered about curing time. Might it be better to use an acrylic varnish (Vallejo, for example) so that I am able to apply the decals on the same day as I apply the varnish? I imagine that the enamel varnish would take at least 24 hours to cure.

[tractor_37260]

For successful removal of the film, the transfers need to be applied to a gloss surface, either Gloss Varnish /Klear/Humbrol Clear Gloss - enamel or acrylic varnish can be used, and then left to fully dry for a day or more.

Then using a brush dipped in white spirit gently wipe over the whole transfer and then work the brush under the edge/corner of the film and the film should come away leaving just the image. Then seal the image by lightly spraying a varnish coat of matt or satin....

HTH

 

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by tractor_37260

[jamespetts]

27 minutes ago, tractor_37260 said:

For successful removal of the film, the transfers need to be applied to a gloss surface, either Gloss Varnish /Klear/Humbrol Clear Gloss - enamel or acrylic varnish can be used, and then left to fully dry for a day or more.

Then using a brush dipped in white spirit gently wipe over the whole transfer and then work the brush under the edge/corner of the film and the film should come away leaving just the image. Then seal the image by lightly spraying a varnish coat of matt or satin....

HTH

 

 

 

Thank you for that.

 

Do I understand from that that even acrylic varnish will need a whole day to dry and therefore that there is no drying time advantage to using acrylic varnish over enamel varnish?

[tractor_37260]

It's the transfers need to be fully dry BEFORE you attempt to remove the film. Acrylic varnish will dry much quicker than enamel varnish which is best left for 24hrs + to fully cure else it might react to the white spirit used to remove the transfer film.

[jamespetts]

5 minutes ago, tractor_37260 said:

It's the transfers need to be fully dry BEFORE you attempt to remove the film. Acrylic varnish will dry much quicker than enamel varnish which is best left for 24hrs + to fully cure else it might react to the white spirit used to remove the transfer film.

 

I had misunderstood - my apologies. I had not appreciated that you were referring to the removal of transfer film, but I see that I had misread your post.

 

Presumably, this applies only to those Modelmaster decals which are advertised as having removable film?

[tractor_37260]

2 minutes ago, jamespetts said:

 

I had misunderstood - my apologies. I had not appreciated that you were referring to the removal of transfer film, but I see that I had misread your post.

 

Presumably, this applies only to those Modelmaster decals which are advertised as having removable film?

 

Yep only the Modelmaster with Removal Varnish coating on the packet.

 

[jamespetts]

1 minute ago, tractor_37260 said:

 

Yep only the Modelmaster with Removal Varnish coating on the packet.

 

 

Splendid, thank you for the clarification.

[Ray H]

16 hours ago, tractor_37260 said:

For successful removal of the film, the transfers need to be applied to a gloss surface, either Gloss Varnish /Klear/Humbrol Clear Gloss - enamel or acrylic varnish can be used, and then left to fully dry for a day or more.

Then using a brush dipped in white spirit gently wipe over the whole transfer and then work the brush under the edge/corner of the film and the film should come away leaving just the image. Then seal the image by lightly spraying a varnish coat of matt or satin....

HTH

 

Thanks for that. I hadn't realised that film removal wasn't a common feature. At least I now know not to try it as my decals are from elsewhere.