Track Feeds

[markpt1]

Hi all,
I have just returned to railway modelling, after some years away from it. My Dad would have helped me with the wiring, but he is no longer with us, so have no one to ask for help any more. As you can see I have a new layout plan and track is down. Plan reads from right to left if plans were placed side by side. A end-to-end layout. Blue is isolating sections and Red & Yellow are points. Wiring up the points I have no problem with, its the track power feeds and where to place them. The layout is DC analogue run with Insulfrog points.

Can anyone mark on the plans where i should pace the power feeds ?

Thank you for any help you can give me.

Mark

[Pete the Elaner]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to the chaos..I mean forum.

 

You could get several different answers from as many people. At the end of the day, it is your layout so the more you understand it, the better it will run.

 

Is this effectively a first layout? A trap many of us fall into is to build big. It is challenging, takes an age & many lose interest before they get something running.

 

Are the sidings in the top left fully isolated & re-fed? It is fine to do this & I prefer it because it does not rely on point blades for conductivity, It creates more wiring though.

Partially isolating then re-feeding will cause sidings to be live when they shouldn't be. I got involved with a club layout when someone had used common return on a set of sidings like this, which caused runaways.

 

The section at the bottom looks very complex. I have seen that relying on minimal power feeds & insulfrogs can allow shorts to be created often by a point which you think is totally unrelated to the problem area.

So why not split it into many smaller sections? It will allow you to understand what is going on. If you get a short on that, it is very unlikely that you will get an accurate answer as to where the cause is.

 

Adding lots of sections breaks is helpful. It will break the layout up into smaller, more manageable sections which will be easier to troubleshoot if so

It is much easier to connect the tracks together at a later date than it is to isolate sections which have been joined with metal rail joiners.

It will also allow you to build it bit by bit. You will get a lot of motivation & encouragement in seeing trains run which will spur you on to build more.

[markpt1]

Hi Pete,

 

Not my first layout.  First one was with dad, so had the help.

 

The layout is one big TM Depot so I can show off my collection.

 

Top right is a fiddle yard so I can run a train with a few wagons.  Yes they will be isolated.

 

All Blue sections will have a isolating switch attached, so I can only have one engine run at a time.

[DCB]

It makes little sense to use DC for this type of layout.  You need so many short sections it gets ridiculous, and I am someone who has absolutely no plans what so ever to go DCC before hell freezes over.   There are three wiring systems, Insulfrog DC, Electrofrog DC and DCC which pretty much works the same whether Insulfrog or electrofrog.   I will upload a suggestion for DC Insulfrog later

 

See Pic. the  feeds should give power everywhere.

Edited February 7, 2019 by DavidCBroad
Bored

[Pete the Elaner]

On 07/02/2019 at 15:49, DavidCBroad said:

It makes little sense to use DC for this type of layout.  You need so many short sections it gets ridiculous, and I am someone who has absolutely no plans what so ever to go DCC before hell freezes over.   There are three wiring systems, Insulfrog DC, Electrofrog DC and DCC which pretty much works the same whether Insulfrog or electrofrog.

 

 

It is interesting to see David recommend DCC it even though he does not use it.

With DCC, it is normal to leave all sections live so you can leave loco lights on or leave engines ticking over when parked. If you ever get tempted to go down the 'sound' route. I was sceptical about sound at first but it has drawn me in.

The amount of wiring is reduced significantly & it is surprising how quickly decoders seem to multiply when you buy them 1 or 2 at a time.

DCC also allow you to easily do things you never planned: stop locos in places you never thought & still control them independently. Add signals or building lighting without masses more wiring; just connect them up to the bus with a decoder & you can control them.

 

As for Insulfrog/Electrofrog wiring, it is normal to let insulfrog points feed their sidings. I choose the 'electrofrog way' (isolate & re-feed) regardless of what points I use for several reasons:

It makes wiring very similar to that for electrofrog & DCC so you don't have to use different techniques for different layouts. This particularly handy when working with others, like at a club.

It is very scalable. You can electrically break the layout into small chunks making problams far less likely & easier to troubleshoot if they do occur.

High resistance track joints & poor connections from point blades have caused me enough trouble in the past that I distrust them. What works well when the track is first laid may not work so well a few years later after weathering & ballasting have helped oxidation to get into to all the track joins. Isolating & re-feeding provides much better conductivity.

 

 

[The Bigbee Line]

Good morning

 

Whichever style of wiring you decide upon, you need to check at every stage...  Fault finding is a b@stard...

 

I use red and black for track feeds, with the 'black to the back' to decide which rail it goes to.  I like to wire up an old Doverbeck controller, as each wire is added I run a loco up and down to check progress and to show any shorts, trust me they will happen... For frogs/crossings I use another coloured wire..

 

Any just my thoughts,

 

Have a nice day

 

Ernie

[Chimer]

I agree with David .  A layout which is primarily a depot is the one thing that would send me down the DCC route.  Any other way, and you'll get blisters on your thumbs from throwing isolating switches while you move locos about.

 

Feeds to each track going round the 90 degree bend, and the end of each siding, would then be my wiring starting point, though you might need a few more where you've created passing loops.

 

But if I was doing it DC, I would go against all current conventional wisdom and not feed any of the sidings beyond the isolating breaks directly, and probably rely on the point blades doing their job of conducting or isolating as intended (leaves Brownies to pounding of drums).  The thought of wiring it as individual sections just makes my brain hurt.

 

Cheers, Chris

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, Chimer said:

I agree with David .  A layout which is primarily a depot is the one thing that would send me down the DCC route.  Any other way, and you'll get blisters on your thumbs from throwing isolating switches while you move locos about.

 

Feeds to each track going round the 90 degree bend, and the end of each siding, would then be my wiring starting point, though you might need a few more where you've created passing loops.

 

But if I was doing it DC, I would go against all current conventional wisdom and not feed any of the sidings beyond the isolating breaks directly, and probably rely on the point blades doing their job of conducting or isolating as intended (leaves Brownies to pounding of drums).  The thought of wiring it as individual sections just makes my brain hurt.

 

Cheers, Chris

Relying on points to power sidings gets complicated & becomes difficult to troubleshoot more quickly than you can imagine. It can easily test your patience to the point when you just give up.

The trouble is that you will end up having to run another feed somewhere, then this will cause a short until a seemingly unrelated point is thrown the wrong way.