New Terminus

[toot]

Hi everyone,

 

I’m just starting up my first proper layout. Im from Australia, but I love England as a setting.. I lived there for 7 years and married one of them! I had model trains as a kid but just the old loop under the bed. My wife has begrudgingly let me start up a ‘small’ shelf layout in the shed!

 

Ive been collecting model train magazines for years and have a few ideas, but I lack a lot of knowledge on running trains prototypically..

 

Im really keen to run both passenger and freight services and would like to model a quay/dock scene as well as another major industry like a diary.

 

I’ve put together my first track plan.. it’s got an industry on the left, the station with a smallish depot in the middle and a goods shed into a quay at the bottom and on to the right. 

 

I’d really appreciate some feedback / suggestions on what I’ve got wrong or how to improve on it so that it runs well / makes sense.

[Lacathedrale]

Hi Toot,

 

I'm not an expert by any means (and there are exceptions to every rule), but here goes:

• The running line should go into a platform directly, rather than into the loop. 
• Turntables at these branch termini would typically be small - and unlikely to have a loco shed coming off them. You seem to be pretty optimistic with regard to the loco shed's siting and the curves leading into the engine roads.

Both of these to me suggest ditching the turntable and having a much gentler curve into the top platform road by flipping those two lines. The old line to the turntable is now a stub of the middle road could be a pilot loco pocket. If you really wanted the turntable, I would suggest placing it at the front-left and ditching the industry there

• Separation of the goods yard and passenger area is excellent, and the double slip is pretty typical of early 20th century practise. 
• The quay looks tiny and unless it's meant to be the start of a linkspan onto a barge, seems fairly unusable.

Rather than modelling a tiny quay (you'll be able to fit what, one or two wagons on those sidings?) I would suggest having it come off as a branch off the mainline to the left - that way you can have dock/private locos coming on and off-scene and exchanging wagons with mainline trains that are made up at the station yard. This would free up the right hand side to be a scenic break - there are a number of examples of termini stations where one set of tracks continues over a level crossing and into a big industrial complex. You wouldn't need to model the whole thing, just have the loco make up the train in the yard and shunt it across the level crossing (from where some imaginary man/horsepower moves it around the complex). 

• A single platform station of this size implies that the route is there for another reason

As per the above, it may be worth focusing on freight traffic with the occasional passenger working (for inspiration, look at the London & Blackwall Railway) - it would work equally well with polished victorian pre-grouping locos as well as a smoggy east London diesel remnant.

 

Hope that helped! 

[Zomboid]

What's the objective? You seem to have defined a space and filled it with railway, which may work, but may not lead to satisfaction. Have you worked out which elements of this hobby you enjoy? The turntable suggests you want to run steam, but have you gone any deeper? For example, are you a GWRist (or a particular one of the others)?

 

There looks to be plenty of fun to be had there if you're into shuffling freight wagons around, but if not then that plan probably won't satisfy you for long.

[toot]

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

zomboid, I’m new to running trains but enjoy modelling and tinkering with things so I’m not too sure what part of running trains will end up being my favourite but I’m drawn to freight operations and shunting.

 

my favourite part of the uk is the west and southwest but my wife got me  a Hornby east coast express train set which is LNER so I don’t think I’ll nail down an area.. maybe I’ll run a mixture of stock, at least until I’ve collected enough of each region to swap them out.

 

although I love catching them, I’m not into modelling modern trains. So I’ll be sticking to the transition era I’d say.

 

the space is fairly defined, it’s an L shape and I plan on keeping the shorter end as a fiddle yard. That being said I’ve actuqlly got space for a short fiddle yard in the far end in the doorway which I may expand into using lacatherdales suggestion of a suggested larger industry / port beyond.

 

lacatherdale: thanks for the detailed reply!

 

I really like your idea of a suggested larger industry. I was hoping to be able to use the port as an inglenook (th tracks might be too short at the moment but I ran out of track on the free design software). Running with your idea I may have the entrance to a larger industry at the end of the longest spur with a gate that can close of a short fiddle yard or casset in order to set up the inglenooks limitations / allow for the industry. Plus like you said I can shift trains from the branch to here also which sounds fun.

 

I’ll have a play around with the track work and see if I can make the more typical approach work and delete the engine shed off of the turntable. Maybe I can put a single shed at the end of the pilot loco spur. Would it be typical to have a few short tracks running off a turntable for storage or were they only used to turn trains?

 

i like the idea of having the TT as if I have a dairy on scene it seems right to send the trains off facing in the right direction?

 

Thanks again guys !

[The Johnster]

You seem to be thinking along the right lines in general, but if I may make a few (hopefully constructive) observations, after saying that I am in agreement with the points already raised:-

 

.Personally, I would advise against 3 way points and a double slip for a first layout, as I reckon you will benefit by keeping things as simple as you can and these are apt to introduce complications in track laying, wiring, and possibly operation.  On real railways, they were only used where lack of space and traffic levels warranted the increased maintenance demands they made, and this doesn't seem all that cramped...

 

.Decide on a standard and keep to it; are you going to be using train set track sections or flexible track and larger radius turnouts, for example?  You will need to establish what the minimum radius curve is and the clearances needed to get stock around it.  Current RTR models usually specify a minimum recommended radius on the box; you will benefit by not going as tight as that!  You are probably going to be using tension lock couplings, but again this needs to be an early decision.

 

.It may be a bit confusing at this stage, but you will spend a lot less money than you otherwise might if you decide as early as you can on a period and prototype railway, and a geographical location, because this will in itself discipline you by limiting your spending to compatible items.  Your LNER train set might be an indicator, but have a bit of a think!

 

.I would say the S bend on the approach to the station is a bit tight, and anything you can do to ease it will be beneficial.  

 

.The curved turnout to access your industry will have a very long dead frog if you are going to use setrack insulated frog turnouts, and smaller locos may will object to it.  There is no reason it can't be a straight on the industry access road, but the siding needs a 'trap point' to protect the main running line.

 

.At the risk of stating an obvious, the longest trains you can run will be determined by number of vehicles you can have clear at both ends of the run around loop and the biggest loco you can run will be determined by the length of the loco release headshunt.  The latter seems big enough for any UK prototype short of Beyer Garratts, but the run around loop could beneficially be extended further out towards the fiddle yard.  

 

.There is no such thing as too many fiddle yard roads and no such thing as having them too long, but remember when you are laying it out to leave space for you fingers to get down in between rakes to lift vehicles off when needed.

 

The plan is workable, though.  Passenger trains can arrive, the loco run around and be turned/serviced if necessary, freight likewise, the industry and quay possibly generating their own traffic; there is plenty of shunting to do, and you will have to think ahead to avoid blocking the loop when a passenger is due or delays will be caused!  Plenty potential for fun here if you like operating, but if you're more a 'watch the trains go by' type you may need something different.

 

Don't skimp on the baseboard; it must be rigid and level, and if it's in an upstairs room or standing on floorboards attach it by brackets to the wall rather than standing it on the floor.  Lay your track carefully, making sure that the underneath is clean so it lays flat and that the pieces adjoin smoothly; you will be rewarded with reliable running and only driver error derailments.

 

Welcome to the insanity, I mean hobby.  You'll soon be one of us.  One of us, one of us...

[DCB]

On 05/02/2019 at 10:34, toot said:

Hi everyone,

 

I’m just starting up my first proper layout. Im from Australia, but I love England as a setting.. I lived there for 7 years and married one of them! I had model trains as a kid but just the old loop under the bed. My wife has begrudgingly let me start up a ‘small’ shelf layout in the shed!

 

Ive been collecting model train magazines for years and have a few ideas, but I lack a lot of knowledge on running trains prototypically..

 

Im really keen to run both passenger and freight services and would like to model a quay/dock scene as well as another major industry like a diary.

 

I’ve put together my first track plan.. it’s got an industry on the left, the station with a smallish depot in the middle and a goods shed into a quay at the bottom and on to the right. 

 

I’d really appreciate some feedback / suggestions on what I’ve got wrong or how to improve on it so that it runs well / makes sense.

Looks good basically

The curve is un necessarily sharp on the approach and I would ease it as much as possible by pushing the turntable back and maybe getting a smaller table,

The run in to the platform over a reverse curve is ugly and UK practice would have been for the platform line to be straight in. All trains passenger and goods would normally arrive on the platform line, on a goods  the loco would run round pull the train  back clear of the cross over and shove it back into the yard.

I added a crossover to allow this but kept the old main line as a handy headshunt and kept the 3 way as I thought it looks good and might make shunting easier.

UK wise most of the traffic would be goods, but dealt with by one or two trains per day while depending on the length of the branch there could be 3 to 12 passengers. Rule of thumb the  Longer the branch the less frequent the passenger trains. Usually one loco an coaches would form all the passenger trains and the same loco could well haul the goods as well.   One loco, one set of coaches and one brake van per day on a branch was far from unusual.

 

Turntable 65 ft is big enough for 99% of UK locos yet RTR almost everything seems to be 75ft.  55ft was quite common on secondary routes where 0-6-0s and 4-4-0s were the usual power and lots of branches did not have turntables at all as locos were allowed about 40 mph tender first, Tank locos were not restricted and could run equally fast both ways.  I think Bachmann made a smaller table for 00/H0 badged as 0 scale narrow gauge at one stage.

See bsuggested dodle