South Gallions, sarf of the London River in the 50's

[Nearholmer]

There were a lot of industrial lines and sidings off the NK line, even as recently as the 1970s, and a lot of industrial locos tucked away behind gates working on them. But, I can’t readily think of an instance where said locos got beyond the exchange point. Further down in Kent, in the Medway valley, there were cement works locos that were allowed to move within station limits over the mainline.

 

One seemingly very unlikely loco you might consider having poke it’s nose in is a L&Y pug, because one of those was used by United Glass at Charlton. 
 

 

 

[Ian Blenk]

22 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

There were a lot of industrial lines and sidings off the NK line, even as recently as the 1970s, and a lot of industrial locos tucked away behind gates working on them. But, I can’t readily think of an instance where said locos got beyond the exchange point. Further down in Kent, in the Medway valley, there were cement works locos that were allowed to move within station limits over the mainline.

 

One seemingly very unlikely loco you might consider having poke it’s nose in is a L&Y pug, because one of those was used by United Glass at Charlton. 
 

 

 

Thanks for that, I hadn't seen any pics of industrials out on the mainline, I was really looking for an excuse to run something up from the River to S.G., probably the B4 in Corall guise. Speak soon!

 

[Ian Blenk]

Last three from Friday's photo session.

This one; looking down O'Neill Terrace, the area suffered badly in the Blitz, the supports are shoring up the Excelsior Hotel and the docks lie behind the wall at the end. The bridge had extra girders added during the conflict

Edited October 26, 2021 by Ian Blenk

[Ian Blenk]

The stub end of the East London Line branch to Deptford. Now closed, track reclamation is taking place, girders will appear soon!

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ian Blenk

[Ian Blenk]

Cath's Caff, business is thin, maybe it's the food poisoning?

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Ian Blenk

[wainwright1]

On 24/10/2021 at 19:28, Ian Blenk said:

I have today completed the girders for under the Cable Street bridge!  Pics to follow, then will do lead flashing on the Station hut.

I wanted to display the movements (timetable is too grand a word) just in case anyone is interested in what's going on. Doubtful as usually folks only spend a few minutes in front of a layout.

 

I've gone for this; produce a slide on Powerpoint, keep it brief, save it as JPEG, run them on electronic photo frame using a remote control so it can be advanced when ready. Examples below.

 

Any ideas or comments would be really welcome 

Hi Ian.

 

I like this layout, right up our street and oozing with atmosphere.

 

Our club looked at making a model of Deptford Wharf with its may connections early on in its life (35 years ago). It was very attractive with the Grove Street Tramway attached and other extensions into the Surrey Docks or the Royal Victoria Yard at various time.  In the end we decided not to proceed as although it would only have scaled up in 4mm at around 12ft for the main river frontage section by about 8ft depth to where the running line came in over the canal bridge, the layout of the yard where the tracks crossed Grove Street then mostly turned to the North up to maybe 45-50 degrees made it very difficult to design the baseboards as the tracks crossed the joints at awkward angles. Also, locomotives were only allowed to shunt up to Grove Street, with its three level crossings and enormous footbridge and everything beyond that was done using capstans powered by the wharfs own hydraulic power station. There were also about 14 traveling cranes, plus the Goliath crane and a a few of the earlier hydraulic cranes still in use. The two storey covered warehouse which spanned the eastern end of the main dock, originally Dudman's or Deadman's Dock, which predated the railway, had around 12 overhead cranes inside.

 

Getting back to shunting locomotives, I think that the usual Brighton C2/C2X, E4, E5 or ex SECR 01, C would have brought the trains into the yard and then the traffic on the tramway was worked mostly with D1 0-4-2's (SEF kit). I think that the exit from the yard was a bit humpy, although this was altered twice over the years and these tanks held the road better than other locos. There is a picture of an 08 which was tried, but was found to be unsatisfactory.

Don't forget, there was a metre gauge system in the Victualling yard and I think an 18 inch gauge system in the Foreign Cattle Market/Army Depot/Convoys Wharf at the end of the Tramway. I believe that some of the tracks for the latter remained in use for moving materials around the site right up until closure in the not too distant past.

 

There has been a lot of change in the last 30-40 years and much of what had remained has now disappeared under blocks of flats and other developments.

 

I would certainly like to see the layout make a visit South.

 

All the best

Ray

[wainwright1]

On 25/10/2021 at 09:28, Nearholmer said:

There were a lot of industrial lines and sidings off the NK line, even as recently as the 1970s, and a lot of industrial locos tucked away behind gates working on them. But, I can’t readily think of an instance where said locos got beyond the exchange point. Further down in Kent, in the Medway valley, there were cement works locos that were allowed to move within station limits over the mainline.

 

One seemingly very unlikely loco you might consider having poke it’s nose in is a L&Y pug, because one of those was used by United Glass at Charlton. 
 

 

 

Surprised that Hornby have never done a model of this.

 

All the best

Ray

[Nearholmer]

14 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

traffic on the tramway was worked mostly with D1 0-4-2's

 

The tramway was pobably initially worked by horses, but it definitely then had a very early petrol loco (built c1902 IIRC), but that was only capable of handling a small number of wagons at a time (the testing of it under load was reported in detail in I think 'Commercial Motor' magazine). There was a very sharp curve, and tiny little exchange yard where the tramway interchanged with LBSCR.

 

This meant that the throughput capacity was very low, and I think it was during the First World War that the connection was eased by realigning the curve (one house in a terrace was demolished to let it through) and getting rid of the tiny exchange yard. It seems to have been at this stage that D1 came into use, because they could accomodate both fairly tight curves and the humps and bumps you mention, and despite trying I have never been able to discover what happened to the petrol loco.

[wainwright1]

2 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

The tramway was pobably initially worked by horses, but it definitely then had a very early petrol loco (built c1902 IIRC), but that was only capable of handling a small number of wagons at a time (the testing of it under load was reported in detail in I think 'Commercial Motor' magazine). There was a very sharp curve, and tiny little exchange yard where the tramway interchanged with LBSCR.

 

This meant that the throughput capacity was very low, and I think it was during the First World War that the connection was eased by realigning the curve (one house in a terrace was demolished to let it through) and getting rid of the tiny exchange yard. It seems to have been at this stage that D1 came into use, because they could accomodate both fairly tight curves and the humps and bumps you mention, and despite trying I have never been able to discover what happened to the petrol loco.

Hi Nearholmer.

Not sure when the tramway actually opened. Probably first horse, then the petrol locomotive then possibly back to horses for a while before steam was used. The petrol locomotive was owned by the the Corporation of London who also owned the Foreign cattle Market. They also bought a few vans at the same time, just two or three. There is a picture of the petrol locomotive which I have seen in a copy of the Southern Railway Magazine and more recently in a book on industrial railways. There is also another picture showing the locomotive and the vans on the tramway, but I cannot remember where I saw that.

In its first form, the trains for the tramway had to go into the Deptford Wharf yard then reversed on a track which crossed the incoming tracks on one of the level crossings then proceeded along Grove Street. (That would make for an interesting model). I met an old boy about thirty years ago who could remember this and also said that where the track came back out of the wharf yard there was some kind of arch over the track. Not sure if that was an a brick opening or maybe a metal structure of some sort. Unfortunately there are no pictures of that, but if you have a copy of a book on the signal boxes of the LB & SCR, there is a signal box diagram from one of the two boxes at the wharf which shows this track formation.

I also seem to recall seeing another picture showing an 0-6-0 or 0-6-2 working the tramway.

 

All the best

Ray

[Oldddudders]

Hamilton Ellis recorded Deptford Wharf as an ominous place - old locos were sometimes scrapped there!

[Ian Blenk]

2 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

Hi Ian.

 

I like this layout, right up our street and oozing with atmosphere.

 

Our club looked at making a model of Deptford Wharf with its may connections early on in its life (35 years ago). It was very attractive with the Grove Street Tramway attached and other extensions into the Surrey Docks or the Royal Victoria Yard at various time.  In the end we decided not to proceed as although it would only have scaled up in 4mm at around 12ft for the main river frontage section by about 8ft depth to where the running line came in over the canal bridge, the layout of the yard where the tracks crossed Grove Street then mostly turned to the North up to maybe 45-50 degrees made it very difficult to design the baseboards as the tracks crossed the joints at awkward angles. Also, locomotives were only allowed to shunt up to Grove Street, with its three level crossings and enormous footbridge and everything beyond that was done using capstans powered by the wharfs own hydraulic power station. There were also about 14 traveling cranes, plus the Goliath crane and a a few of the earlier hydraulic cranes still in use. The two storey covered warehouse which spanned the eastern end of the main dock, originally Dudman's or Deadman's Dock, which predated the railway, had around 12 overhead cranes inside.

 

Getting back to shunting locomotives, I think that the usual Brighton C2/C2X, E4, E5 or ex SECR 01, C would have brought the trains into the yard and then the traffic on the tramway was worked mostly with D1 0-4-2's (SEF kit). I think that the exit from the yard was a bit humpy, although this was altered twice over the years and these tanks held the road better than other locos. There is a picture of an 08 which was tried, but was found to be unsatisfactory.

Don't forget, there was a metre gauge system in the Victualling yard and I think an 18 inch gauge system in the Foreign Cattle Market/Army Depot/Convoys Wharf at the end of the Tramway. I believe that some of the tracks for the latter remained in use for moving materials around the site right up until closure in the not too distant past.

 

There has been a lot of change in the last 30-40 years and much of what had remained has now disappeared under blocks of flats and other developments.

 

I would certainly like to see the layout make a visit South.

 

All the best

Ray

Hi Ray,

Thank-you very much for the kind comments.  Deptford Wharf and it's associated railways are very interesting and as you say would make a good model. I am pushed for space (aren't we all?) and as much as I would like to expand S.G. it is not possible. I have a few other layouts which also take up room.

I was in the Merchant Navy in the collier trade for quite a number of years, running coal from N.E. ports down to the London River and the South Coast in general. We never got to Deptford Wharf, most of the household coal we shipped went over to Ireland. I did get to Deptford Power Station, which as I understand it had changed from oil fired back to coal fired albeit for a short period.

Another tramway that I have long been interested in is North of the river at Silver Town, Another company I worked for were frequent visitors there with sugar for Tate & Lyle.

I'd love to see a track plan of Deptford Wharf as a model.

 

Speak soon

 

Ian B

[Ian Blenk]

Hmm, getting ready for the gig this weekend at Workington, first time I've been out since 2014. I don't usually go to such lengths to ensure good running etc. but here we go.

The exhibition is at Energus Lillyhall CA14 4LW, say 'Hi' if you're there.

[Ian Blenk]

Had a very enjoyable weekend at the Solrail exhibition in Workington. I was pleased with the way the railway ran, no stalls or derailments. Thanks to Mrs Me for helping out. Next outing is Tynebank at Birtley in March, no rush then!

[johndon]

3 hours ago, Ian Blenk said:

Next outing is Tynebank at Birtley in March, no rush then!

 

 

I look forward to seeing it...

 

[Ian Blenk]

8 hours ago, johndon said:

 

I look forward to seeing it...

 

No pressure then!!

[Ian Blenk]

 

[Multigauge]

Really lovely layout and great modeling; the detail is wonderful. 

[DLT]

Lovely layout, have to get to see it sometime.

Workington exhibition looks pretty good as well!

Cheers, dave.

[ianblenk]

Hi All,

S,G, was booked to appear at Newcastle show in Nov. However due to spiralling van hire costs it has not made the cut. I see it is advertised to appear in some publications. I know this is devastating news and how upset you must all be. All is not lost my micro layout (don't blink, you'll miss it) Hallbankgate / Tarnhouse / Hallbank or whatever name it has this week will be there. It's in the seldom frequented Standard Gauge Industrial forum if you are curious.