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I will stand to be corrected here, but....

 

...unless the facing points did get track-circuits at a very late date, then there would have been mechanical lock bars for each FPL, so the rodding for the FPLs would go to the lock bar and not directly to the lock plunger.

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51 minutes ago, RailWest said:

I will stand to be corrected here, but....

 

...unless the facing points did get track-circuits at a very late date, then there would have been mechanical lock bars for each FPL, so the rodding for the FPLs would go to the lock bar and not directly to the lock plunger.

 

How  would that look in practice chris ?  Am I right in thinking the lock bar would often run parallel to the rail head? 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

 

 

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On the inside of one rail as you approach the point.  Approx 1 coach long, rod from signalbox onto the outer end of the lock bar and drive to the FPL off the inner end.

Paul.

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1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

On the inside of one rail as you approach the point.  Approx 1 coach long, rod from signalbox onto the outer end of the lock bar and drive to the FPL off the inner end.

Paul.

Right so as per the instructions they are getting you to set up and economical fpl which is missing the locking bar. Looks like I'll need to play around a bit more.

 

Cheers 

 

Pete 

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3 hours ago, PeteN92 said:

economical fpl

An economical FPL is something different: it saves a lever in the box by operating FPL and point together all of the one (heavy!) rod.

Your ‘cable trunking’ photo shows lock bars for the double slip: one beyond for coming out of the platform, and another (split into two) for going in.  Disused stations also has a similar photo which shows the crank arrangement of the departing FPL a little better (immediately above the maroon Warship photo).

Paul.

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@5BarVT @RailWest after having a look further into this point lock conundrum. It's interesting. As you guys day there is definitely a locking bar coming from the facing points in platform 2. Although it goes forward from the toe of the point.

 

IMG_20210305_105834__01.jpg.0d1f8d3d28f38ff0bc6313413a5ef040.jpg

 

The same seems to apply on the points going into the goods yard.  Although the locking bar appears to be in rear.

IMG_20210305_112026__01.jpg.349bb4a79c7fc7aa6afbb67ae3cd9ee2.jpg

Oddly though there seems to be some other rodding ahead of the v any ideas ? 

 

Screenshot_20200508-012842__01.jpg.cca76666f22d2a259d5ea56604fbb674.jpg

 

What's stumping me of that there doesn't seem to be locking bars on some of the other points where you'd imagine there should be such as the first crossover unless the single track circuit provided somehow interlocked ? 

 

IMG_20210305_112504__01.jpg.46d515966ab2f7e4582d1cc7a94241f9.jpg

 

Again this is the end of the double slip in the loco shed which should have an fpl attached but no locking bar seems to be present.

 

IMG_20210305_105743.jpg.650f0b11ba67b68516cdd30d26d653ad.jpg

 

However one end of the down double slip  may possibly have a locking bar. Possibly behind the left rail I'm guessing that's where the cranks and rodding would connect to.

 

IMG_20210305_111910__01__01.jpg.7f4943f05cf4efb091114b001c476a16.jpg

 

Another possible locking bar ? 

FB_IMG_1549532408998__01__01.jpg.c9382ba869fa8f29c6e118d63a0170e4.jpg

 

Although there is definitely some locking bars on some of the FPL's others seem to be missing. Could this be a case that there is a lack of photo evidence or possibly just that locking bars were only provided on certain FPL's. On the main possibly ? 

 

Any further ideas folks ?

 

Pete

 

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Actually having had a further look it seems I've now got most of them bar one.  Am I correct into thinking that where some an FPL such as 16 lever locked the end of the crossover and the up double slip there would only be one locking bar provided even though it ended in 3 places?  

 

1660532097_fpllockingbars.jpg.cae73d05369495be7da9501df42c31bb.jpg

 

 

The only one I cant find any photos of is for 32 FPL coming out of the carriage sidings/ run round.  Because of all the point work in that tight space am not even sure where a locking bar would have space to go. 

Suggestions welcome ? 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

 

 

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50 minutes ago, PeteN92 said:

Actually having had a further look it seems I've now got most of them bar one.  Am I correct into thinking that where some an FPL such as 16 lever locked the end of the crossover and the up double slip there would only be one locking bar provided even though it ended in 3 places?  

 

1660532097_fpllockingbars.jpg.cae73d05369495be7da9501df42c31bb.jpg

 

 

The only one I cant find any photos of is for 32 FPL coming out of the carriage sidings/ run round.  Because of all the point work in that tight space am not even sure where a locking bar would have space to go. 

Suggestions welcome ? 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

 

 

Also 'missing' perhaps is a lock-bar for 18 on 17.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure really why there were any FPLs at all on 32 or 14 etc, given that there would be no passenger movement over them. I can only assume that they were provided to give greater assurance against any 'mishaps' when shunting.

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3rd picture down is of a Treadle. Electrically locking the points to stop a side swipe if anything were to head down the road on the left and possibly to indicate a loco etc standing at that position on the end of the platform.

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1 hour ago, 73c said:

3rd picture down is of a Treadle. Electrically locking the points to stop a side swipe if anything were to head down the road on the left and possibly to indicate a loco etc standing at that position on the end of the platform.

Strictly speaking, it was an Electric Depression Bar (although the electrical locking table described it as a 'fouling bar', which was usually something different), treadles were different things and served different functions :-)  There used to be one at Barnstaple Town in late years too.

Edited by RailWest
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1 hour ago, RailWest said:

Strictly speaking, it was an Electric Depression Bar (although the electrical locking table described it as a 'fouling bar', which was usually something different), treadles were different things and served different functions :-)  There used to be one at Barnstaple Town in late years too.

Thanks Chris, I stand corrected. 

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15 minutes ago, 73c said:

Thanks Chris, I stand corrected. 

No need...you can do it sitting down :-):-) To be honest, there are many things like that which you will find called by different names at different times in different places, so there is probably not so much a 'correct' name more a 'generally accepted' name.

  • 'Fouling bars' normally would be clear of the flangeway, but raised to foul the line when the relevant lever was operated, so the presence of an engine or item of rolling-stock in the 'wrong' place would prevent that movement.
  • EDBs always stood normally foul and would be depressed when an engine/stock moved or stood over them, thereby operating the appropriate electrical circuit.
  • Older forms of treadles varied quite a bit, but were usually attached to the side of, or underneath, a rail and were activated by the depression of the rail under the weight of a passing engine/stock, thereby operating the appropriate electrical circuit. Modern versions are usually (?) a form of large microswitch (is that a contradiction in terms?) mounted in the 4-foot with a 'bent wire' operating arm that fouls the flangeway, so it is struck by a passing wheel.  There were also some older forms of treadle which operated mechanical linkages to serve some purpose.
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7 hours ago, RailWest said:

Also 'missing' perhaps is a lock-bar for 18 on 17.

Directly, yes, but probably there indirectly through the locking.  Those mechanical guys were nothing if not inventive.

The only passenger move over 26 FPL facing also goes over 18, so if you make 26 released by 18, the pulling sequence is 23, then 18, then 26 (O.K. A bit of backwards and forwards on the frame) and the bar for 26 also holds 18.  Yes, not as absolute as we might want in modern ‘instant’ electric signalling, but there are two levers to operate before 17 becomes free and that takes time which generally will mean that the train has cleared 17 before they are free.

You might also be able to make 16 released by 18 and use the second lock bar too, but I haven’t been able to think that through to make sure there are no unintended consequences.  (“Locking relaxed at request of operators” usually means someone’s tried to be too clever and has missed one scenario that is found when tested by reality!)

 

9 hours ago, PeteN92 said:

having a look further into this point lock conundrum. It's interesting. As you guys day there is definitely a locking bar coming from the facing points in platform 2. Although it goes forward from the toe of the point.

It is isn’t it!

You can get lock bars forward from the toe, especially where the signal is right on the toes but it’s mechanically more difficult, so in rear (i.e. on the approach) is preferable.  The linkage can only go on where the rail is solid so you need cranks that move with the switch to get the motion back to ‘dry land’ and that makes the points very heavy.

Paul.

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So I had a go at 44fpl with locking bar and here is my first attempt. I designed a 3d printed the straight adjusting cranks as I didn't have any plastic or etched ones and used the rest of the components from the wills kit and some evergreen strip.

 

IMG_20210305_182627.jpg.09bb0505907d83edddddb8ef85d66e96.jpg

 

It's looks neat and doesn't foul anything when the points move however its miles away from the running rail. Also taking Paul's comments onboard and finding another reference photo I realised that the locking bar would only go as far as the end of the switch blades. 

 

IMG_20210308_132827.jpg.7901fcd8d3aa186beb5dc105dee3dff6.jpg

 Mk 2 arrangement is now attached to the switch rail and the whole lot moves as the points move. I've attached a video to show them in action. I'm much happier with how this looks and will consider it as good as it's going to get without complicating construction further. 

 

 

Now just the rest to do. 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

 

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Were there any locations at Ilfracombe where the lock bar was ON the points rather in in rear? If so, are you sure that the bar was not in two parts, one on the fixed rail and one on the moveable switch rail?

Edited by RailWest
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5 hours ago, RailWest said:

Were there any locations at Ilfracombe where the lock bar was ON the points rather in in rear? If so, are you sure that the bar was not in two parts, one on the fixed rail and one on the moveable switch rail?

I've only managed to find one clear colour picture that shows this particular point and the bar seems to only be on the switch rail. 

 

It could very well extend further but I've not managed to come across anything showing it being any longer. 

 

For now I think I'll just leave it as is unless another photo crops up that shows any difference. That is before I put down the ballast which will make things much more permanent.

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

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18 hours ago, PeteN92 said:

I've only managed to find one clear colour picture that shows this particular point and the bar seems to only be on the switch rail. 

 

It could very well extend further but I've not managed to come across anything showing it being any longer. 

 

For now I think I'll just leave it as is unless another photo crops up that shows any difference. That is before I put down the ballast which will make things much more permanent.

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

The only photo that I could find was plate 114 of the Middleton Press book, which clearly shows it on the point, but sadly the switch toes are not visible. However given the proximity of the point to the Up Starting signal, I'm not surprised by its location.

 

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1 hour ago, RailWest said:

The only photo that I could find was plate 114 of the Middleton Press book, which clearly shows it on the point, but sadly the switch toes are not visible. However given the proximity of the point to the Up Starting signal, I'm not surprised by its location.

 

Photo ref  341514  on https://colourrail.co.uk/gallery/steam gives you a better picture of the point down to the toe and its in colour which is nice to see.  

 

Cheers

 

Pete 

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Work has continued on the rodding runs first up was to draw a plan as trying to work out the runs based on my signalling diagrams was a pain. This diagram gives me a general idea of where they should be going and how many runs I'll need in each place.

 

 

IMG_20210312_224213.jpg.d8c0489d208e80eca778fffbe3e8558f.jpg

I've then built up a long run for 9FPL and part of 10 points for the crossover. I've used off cuts of the sprue material to strengthen the it all and keep it straight. 

 

 

IMG_20210312_162316.jpg.886f425541dda25a303c2abcdc78ada6.jpg

After previous trials with neodymium magnets had been unsuccessful I did a little more research and found that using round magnets wasn't going to cut it as they were attracting the kadee pins down. What you want is to attract them sideways, this allows the knuckles to disengage.

 

 

IMG_20210312_162251.jpg.24ab5c01c092b01236caf87775b35d97.jpg

In January I ordered a packet of 100 3mmx3mmx3mm cube magnets  from China on eBay. These finally arrived however I was shocked to discover a tube of glue not magnets....:mad:

 

That will teach me to use those Chinese sellers on eBay to get a bargain. The worst / handy thing was I found packets of 50 magnets on amazon for around £9 with next day delivery. Happy days. 

 

The magnets are arranged in groups of 4 between the sleepers in some places I have had to dig the ballast out and places where I've yet to scenic they were simply stuck onto the cork with super glue. The important thing to check is that your poles are facing the same way or they will cancel each other out(which I did a couple of times).

 

 

IMG_20210312_162211.jpg.4909a0b5cb4f13e03b2b7f2e7f1eac4c.jpg

I've got with two rows of 4 you can fit 5 in-between the tracks but it seemed unnecessary and a waste of an extra magnet.

 

When I initially had a single row I found that you would need to stop the train too precisely to uncouple, a second row meant there was a little more room for error. There would be nothing stopping you from adding more rows of you wanted a larger uncoupling space.

 

I've now added uncoupling magnets in many of the places on the layout where I frequently need to attach or uncouple and still have a few more places that need magnets added. I will then add ballast back over the magnets to cover them and will probably use a dot of paint on the sides of the rails to show where the magnets are. Below is a video showing how reliable they are as I shunt some stock around in the carriage sidings. 

 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

 

Edited by PeteN92
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  • 2 weeks later...

Having already drawn the engine shed once and then lost the file due to corruption I have been putting off having a second crack at it. With my imminent return to work after getting my second jab the other day I decided it was time to have another go.  

 

I have used the drawings in Southern Nouveau and the Lineside and a Historical Survey of Southern Sheds which are a combination of original plans and line drawings of what was actually built. I have then checked against photos as well and in some places counted bricks in order to find the missing measurements required.  

 

On my version of the shed the mess rooms are flipped to the other end of the shed for space reasons and I will be bricking up one end of the shed as opposed to the open design of the original however these plans can now be used as a 4mm to the foot version of Ilfracombe shed. 

 

I can now also turn these drawings into a laser cut design by separating elements in order to make a kit of parts. This will also require drawing the support beams however these are included in the Southern Nouveau drawings so shouldn't be too much of a bother.  I will probably print my design out and mock it up into a card model like the signal box so I can further visualise it all.

 

2021-03-22.png.3640bdbc57d3d4fa93a5b9be1f977857.png

 

Cheers 

 

Pete 

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Having mocked up three sides of the shed I'm pretty happy with how that's looking.

 

IMG_20210323_132446.jpg.49c3b4fe1e19f6269bae56336873f180.jpg

N class comes on shed 

 

IMG_20210323_132503.jpg.fd393b1b88f36c2c7596dd666c76e320.jpg

The end that I will probably brick up.

 

IMG_20210323_132517.jpg.b5b0182ebfa3976466d3c789cb655aa5.jpg

Excuse the clutter 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

Edited by PeteN92
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I have just posted an update on my workbench page on a little 3d printing project I have been working on. To create a merchant navy series 3 replacement tender top. If interested my other page can be found here: 

 

  

Cheers 

 

Pete

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have been drawing up a scale plan of the goods shed at Ilfracombe. This has been the hardest of all of the buildings as I don't have any scale drawings to go from. I therefore have used measurements taken from scale plans of the site and compared them with the engine shed I have already drawn.  By studying photos I have then tried to ensure that it is all looking correct. 

 

2021-04-04.png.ebff8e0f59f1055f9098aa650b6326f3.png

 

 

I hope to again turn this into a laser cut kit but for now will print it out and stick onto a cardboard mock up of the shed to double check all my dimensions are looking right considering this has had a lot of guesswork.  

 

Thanks again 

 

Pete

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Today I used my drawing to do an initial mock up of the goods shed in card.

 

IMG_20210405_164123.jpg.6c0a0a9a99fb8ddfc8c05a450580ba88.jpg

 The offices will step in on the actual shed I just couldn't be bothered to model it on the mock up. 

 

IMG_20210405_164139.jpg.f38f40574d0f41ff20bfb742d08064fd.jpg

 

Looking along the back of the goods shed.

 

IMG_20210405_164153.jpg.f4dd0908421655e30cf22be793d0714e.jpg

 

Front of the shed showing the windows.

 

IMG_20210405_164324.jpg.4d7fe14d6fb06bc7efa53cd07bceb5d3.jpg

 

The Ilfracombe station skyline is now complete... At least in mock ups. Guess I ought to get round to actually making the buildings. 

 

Cheers 

 

Pete

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  • 7 months later...

The Signal Box

 

IMG_20211104_155435.jpg.6241600242c56488b4a2f6e39dc3f346.jpg

 

Safe to say progress has been very slow on Ilfracombe over the past 6 months or so. This has been due to my return to work and then buying a house. Currently the layout remains at my parents until such a time that a space can be made to accommodate it. This means that work has been very infrequent and often involved working on stock as apposed to the layout itself. 

 

One big step that has  been in the works for some time now is that me and Andy at Rail Model Laser Cut Model Railway Kits have been designing and building a laser cut kit of Ilfracombe box. This has  been a long process of tweaking elements but as you can see it is looking amazing to me. 

 

I started by taking the scale drawings of the box and then scaling them to 4mm scale I provided Andy with photos of the box and he then use these and combined them with other designs of signal boxes he had already produced.  

Lots of back and forth emails a recut front wall and a redesigned roof thanks to some odd dimensions and we are nearly there. 

 

The Box includes floor trusses supporting the operating floor, Roof detail and full interior window detail too.  I now have just the roof tiles to add, sign to add to the front, signal box interior and to full bed it into place. 

 

See below some photos of the process: 

 

The design stage

 

IMG_20210701_214617.jpg.462fb73d89b8f4c39639d0f6054781ef.jpg

 

Mk1 signal box 

 

IMG_20210713_164827.jpg.a56ec55a0161a779a16d3e5a8e2fceef.jpg

 

Roof detail

 

IMG_20211024_120803.jpg.8602fa7f4ca63e24547373a62c4f8fc6.jpg

 

Nearly finished 

 

IMG_20211104_155429.jpg.2a07b86b826786054157d9bc9d1e5951.jpg

 

Once me and Andy are happy with everything the kit will go on sale as I know there is a good few other people who are building Ilfracombe based layouts, or just want a signal box of this type.

 

I hope to get things moving again now the house move has calmed down a bit and will try to post some more updates as I go

 

Cheers 

 

Pete 

 

 

 

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