Triang wheels and points

[AndrewP]

I'm new to this so sorry if this is an old topic re-visited. My son (4 year old) is just starting a layout and we were given some Tri-ang coaches. Unfortunately when we run them they derail on the points and I have been told that the wheel profile (flange depth) is not compatible for the track, i have also been told that a simple replacement of new wheels won't work because the new axles have points where they run in the bogies whereas the Tri-ang ones have a through axle. Has anyone found a way to run this type of coach? Thanks

 

[RexAshton]

You can replace the wheels but if they are really old the axles will go through the axle boxes and be visible on the outside of the bogies. If this is the case it's not necessarily the end of the world but you will have to remove the old axles and wheels and fit 2mm top hat bushes to the inside faces of the bogies to allow for the pin point axles of more modern wheels. You may need to work a bit trial and error to get the distance between pairs of bushes correct for free running.

[AndrewP]

Thanks Rex, where might i get 'top hat bushes' from?  by-the-way nice to see a modeler from 'High Peak'.

 

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, AndrewP,

 

Here's a link to the step-by-step instructions posted in my club's web page.

http://stlukeschurch.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Wheel-Replacement-in-Old-00-gauge-models.pdf

 

The bearings used in that approach were not top-hat ones, but those similar to those listed here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alan-Gibson-G4M63F-4mm-Flangeless-Bearings-x-40-00/401525926017?hash=item5d7ccf6881:g:8VYAAOSwPcVVln-q:rk:25:pf:0

 

The plain bearings were used to avoid the need to bend out the (possibly brittle) Tri-ang frames so as to insert the top-hat variety.

 

I've had lots of success replacing old Tri-ang wheels with the modern Hornby equivalents - both coach and wagon. The only issue with them that I have come across is making sure that the back-to back distance between the wheels is 14.3mm. Check and adjust them if necessary. On my layouts which use Peco Code 100 track, 0.1mm can make a difference between a "troublesome truck" and a reliable one.

 

I hope this is of some use to you.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[RexAshton]

1 hour ago, AndrewP said:

Thanks Rex, where might i get 'top hat bushes' from?  by-the-way nice to see a modeler from 'High Peak'.

 

Alan Gibson or Markits are probably the best bet for bearings. There's quite a few of us in the woolly backwoods of the High Peak

[The Johnster]

Wizard Models, who market Comet coach kits, also supply brass bearings.

 

These coaches must be very old, though, if they have the open end axle bearings that you can see the end of the axle through.  The wheels are plastic and integrally moulded with half axles which fit over the metal full axle  They presumably pre-date the Triang shorty clerestories, introduced in I believe 1962, which I have some of.  These do not have the open axle bearings but I was surprised to find that they will run through modern Peco Streamline pointwork; I have, however, replaced the wheels with modern ones and improved both the appearance and the running.

 

The problem is that the plastic half-axle wheels have very deep and crude flanges and these will not run through modern flangeways on pointwork without lifting, at which point the thing will derail even if you are going slowly enough to prevent it from bouncing off the track because the flanges will override the check rails and mount the crossing vee, 'splitting' the points.  

 

The original Rovex Black Princess train set came with 2 very short and rather crude 'LMS' coaches, and the next development was an 8 inch long 'Stanier' composite coach in crimson/cream and malachite liveries, not as crude but by no means scale models!  Following this were 9 inch BR mk1s, including a BSK and Restaurant Car, but IIRC these featured the enclosed axleboxes that I have on my clerestories.  Next stage was the 10 inch long 'scale length' mk1s which were in production for several decades.  

 

The original very short coaches suffered from warping of the roofs, which curled up at the ends, but later models tend to last a bit better.

[Il Grifone]

Old Tri-ang wheelsets consist of two wheel/half axle units, one of which is rigidly attached to the splines on the axle, while the other is free to rotate on the axle. Age and gunge may have fixed both to the axle however. To remove the wheelset you reguire a suitable piece of metal to push the axle through. The blunt end of a 2mm drill bit is fine. Push from the side with the loose wheel and the axle will drop out. Fitting top hat bearings (available on eBay) will resukt in a free running vehicle. To avoid the risk of damaging the bogies (they never were very flexible and won't have improved with age) use plain bearings rather than top hat (or one and one) and fix with  a drop of cement.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=pin+point+wheel+bearings&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=pin-point+wheel+bearings&_sacat=0

 

A cheap solution would be to turn the original wheels down in an electric drill with the aid of a file

 

Use 12mm wheels as Tri-ang stock sits about 2mm too high and the correct size coach wheel will only make this worse.

 

(There used to be a Peco conversion kit with replacment nylon wheels, but these are like hen's teeth now.)

[AndrewP]

thanks for the tips and comments, really helpful and good to know these items of stock will be of use.

 

[kernowtim]

There are some videos on youtube covering this, search for.. replacing Triang wheels!

[DCB]

I use Triang stock both on a fixed layout with modern Bachmann  stick etc and code 100 Peco Track and also on a "Floor Layout" with Triang Super 4 Track

 

The Triang wheels are two main types, 1) Pin point wheels with two plastic wheels and a metal axle with pin points clearly visible between them and closed axle boxes.  Modern Hornby wheels drop straight in these coaches..

2) Two half wheels which hide the round ended axle and open ended axle boxes.    These can be removed but often break the bogies in the process. Once removed a small washer can be inserted between the two "Wheel Halves" to increase the back to back measurement to suit most Code 100 track,Peco Streamline. Set track etc. while still running fine on Triang Super 4.    They won't run on some dodgy foreign made code 100  track  unless you turn the flanges down. Just a few especially Transcon  have massive flanges  which hit the sleepers even on Peco.    These can be put in a drill chuck with a file held against them and made a bit smaller.   

If you break the bogies later/ current Hornby bogies fit if you can drill,out the old rivets.

The Loco wheels are awkward, Nob see through steam flanges can be reduced using a file, spin the loco wheels by applying power through a file held against the flange.   Knurled Transcon wheels can't be altered, far too hard  they wont file down, you have to get the later ones.   You can fit  Hornby Castle/County or Airfix Castle wheel tyres to the B12 and Hall locos, possibly the Britannia fairly easily with a small screwdriver and a pair of pliers, A1A/ 37 and Hymek wheels should be OK on code 100, maybe push the back to back out a bit, later 0-6-0s and 0-4-0s are tricky, the back to back is too tight.  I fit Romford Markits or chage to the early wheels

[Il Grifone]

 

Replacing the bogies might be an option (rather expensive probably), but removing the old ones can present problems. I usually prise up the rivet with a screwdriver (taking care!), as a drill bit tends to jam in it and then melts the plastic!

 

Apart from the very early wheels, I've not had great problems running Tri-ang on code 100. Peco Streamline was originally designed to accept wheels from scale to Tri-ang profile, though the best results are with Hornby Dublo* standard wheels (as adopted by (Tri-ang) Hornby from about 1970, though their latest wheels are finer). It's not so much the back to back dimension (though this tight) as the flange depth.

 

* These are a mean between the two. About the only things adopted after the take over were the wheel standards and the name.

 

Wheel and track standards are a thorny subject, but essential to good running. The NMRA site has  a good explanation. The critical dimension is the check gauge (back to back plus flange thickness).

 

Do the Tri-ang coaches have tension lock (Mk III) couplings or the earlier type (Mk II) with the open loop couplings?

Edited February 11, 2019 by Il Grifone
Additional query

[Il Grifone]

Are