south_tyne Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I'm searching for information about a small O gauge layout built by the late Dave Cannon. I don't know the name of the layout but I understand it was included in the Second Small Layout publication produced by The Guild (unfortunately I don't have access to this book at present, so I have been able to see the said article). The plan was evidently based around a loop with two sidings facing in alternate directions. A system of cards was used to determine which 'spots' wagons needed to be shunted to as part of the operation. I appreciate it is somewhat of a longshot, but does anyone have any further information anout, or photographs of, the layout? I would love to learn more about it as it sounds as though it could provide inspiration for my own small project. Thanks in advance for any assistance or help anybody is able to provide. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) Was it "Wild Swan Yard" you were thinking of? Excerpt from GOG Small Layouts: http://www.gauge0guild.com/small_layouts_1-02.pdf Edited February 10, 2019 by hartleymartin Source of image noted and linked. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 2 hours ago, hartleymartin said: Was it "Wild Swan Yard" you were thinking of? Excerpt from GOG Small Layouts: http://www.gauge0guild.com/small_layouts_1-02.pdf Hi Martin, Many thanks for your reply. I was aware of Wild Swan Yard and I think the other layout is very similar! I have a hard copy of the first Small Layout Book with the above layout, but it's useful to be reminded of it. Ultimately there are only a few ways you can arrange four points I suppose! I am going to do some planning on paper with some point templates - the Peco setrack points should allow the Wild Swan design to be squeezed a little more. I have read in The Gazette recently that a third volume is currently bein prepared. It will be great when that is published. Thanks again for your help! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I had made plans for a light railway layout based on this design, but all model railway projects had to be shelved about 2 years ago due to unfortunate changes in life circumstances. The up side, is that if everything goes well in 2019, I'll be right back into it! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 There was a 4mm scale layout which was similar and used a card system to allocate wagons to different locations. It was based on an industrial location. Shunting puzzles can be lots of fun, but sometimes they can be a little contrived. All that said, rule #1 applies. It is YOUR layout, and YOU run it the way that YOU like it! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 hours ago, hartleymartin said: There was a 4mm scale layout which was similar and used a card system to allocate wagons to different locations. It was based on an industrial location. Shunting puzzles can be lots of fun, but sometimes they can be a little contrived. All that said, rule #1 applies. It is YOUR layout, and YOU run it the way that YOU like it! Enigma Engineering? Gordon A 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 5 hours ago, hartleymartin said: I had made plans for a light railway layout based on this design, but all model railway projects had to be shelved about 2 years ago due to unfortunate changes in life circumstances. The up side, is that if everything goes well in 2019, I'll be right back into it! It's a lovely design. There was a layout called Ivydale (All Hallows) which featured in the December 1996 Railway Modeller that used the same basic trackplan. It was Gauge 3 standard gauge and was absoutely superb! My favourite layout of all time and still an inspiration more than two decades later. That was also a light railway terminus and had so much atmosphere. I hope that 2019 sees you able to return to modelling. I also had a terrible time last year but am looking forward and planning a new project following a severe illness - it should aid my recovery! I hope you get started soon and can share your progress on the forum. Are you planning an Australian light railway project? 5 hours ago, hartleymartin said: There was a 4mm scale layout which was similar and used a card system to allocate wagons to different locations. It was based on an industrial location. Shunting puzzles can be lots of fun, but sometimes they can be a little contrived. All that said, rule #1 applies. It is YOUR layout, and YOU run it the way that YOU like it! 1 hour ago, Gordon A said: Enigma Engineering? Gordon A Thanks both. Yes it is Enigma Engineering - there was an article in RM a few years ago detailing how the layout was operated. I am sure there was a thread in here too. I'll try and find it! Thanks very much for you input. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted February 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2019 Funnily enough, there’s a layout just started running a thread in the Continental section using the same layout, only one siding disconnected, a Czech TT passenger station, 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ELTEL Posted February 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Gordon A said: Enigma Engineering? Gordon A Please any idea what the board dimensions would be in 4mm ? I fancy building a small industrial shunting layout other than the normal Inglenook track plan. Eltel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Northroader said: Funnily enough, there’s a layout just started running a thread in the Continental section using the same layout, only one siding disconnected, a Czech TT passenger station, Thanks for that link, I'll have a peruse.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ELTEL said: Please any idea what the board dimensions would be in 4mm ? I fancy building a small industrial shunting layout other than the normal Inglenook track plan. Eltel See a link here: Enigma Engineering - Layout & Track Design - RMweb If I remember correctly it was about 120cm in length in 4mm scale. Smashing little layout. I am sure others will be able to give more input. The builder (Paul) definitely posts on here! It definitely offers something different to the standard inglenook design. Edited February 11, 2019 by south_tyne Spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ELTEL Posted February 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, south_tyne said: See a link here: Enigma Engineering - Layout & Track Design - RMweb If I remember correctly it was about 120cm in length in 4mm scale. Smashing little layout. I am sure others will be able to give more input (the builder definitely posts on here!) Many thanks At a touch under 4ft in old money sounds like a possible candidate. Eltel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, ELTEL said: Many thanks At a touch under 4ft in old money sounds like a possible candidate. Eltel Yes that sounds about right (apologies for the metric). As ever with a stinging puzzle, the length and capacity of the sidings and headshunt is critical to successful operation. As I mentioned, there was a good article in RM a couple of years ago explaining the drain and operation. I'm sure someone can point in the right direction. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpio7uk Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I've only just come on to this topic...... is this the one you're looking for? Porthwain http://s386633784.websitehome.co.uk/bpmrc/layout9.shtml The layout is still going strong and it was at the Bristol show a couple of weeks back. I used to be a member of the Barry & Penarth club with Dave Cannon - happy days! Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted February 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2019 I see you’re thinking of using the O gauge Peco setrak points. It’s well worth checking the geometry first, as they’re laid out similar to the OO ones more intended for a 6 x 4 oval type of layout. The radius of the diverging track continues on through the crossing, so that although they’re short, trying to fit them on a “plank” type of layout is problematic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 The layout was built by 5050 on this group. I can vouch that it was definitely a mental challenge to shunt. Paul used two sets of cards shuffled and dealt face down so you could not cheat. The first set specified the location, and the second set identified the wagon to go to that location. There was also, another three cards dealt face down for the train to go off scene. The train arrived from off scene right; engine leading, three wagons then a brake van. The train departed to the right engine leading, three wagons then the brake van. The track was to P4 standards, with I think Paul said the points were 2ft radius. Couplings from memory were three link. I had a few enjoyable hours at a number of shows playing on this layout, including an attempted cheat with two locos which really tangled me up. A variety of 0-4-0 locos and an 0-6-0 Hudswell Clarke diesel shunter were the usual motive power. Gordon A 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Scorpio7uk said: I've only just come on to this topic...... is this the one you're looking for? Porthwain http://s386633784.websitehome.co.uk/bpmrc/layout9.shtml The layout is still going strong and it was at the Bristol show a couple of weeks back. I used to be a member of the Barry & Penarth club with Dave Cannon - happy days! Jeff Thanks Jeff that is great! That is the one indeed. Those are great photographs of a super little layout. Inspirational stuff. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Northroader said: I see you’re thinking of using the O gauge Peco setrak points. It’s well worth checking the geometry first, as they’re laid out similar to the OO ones more intended for a 6 x 4 oval type of layout. The radius of the diverging track continues on through the crossing, so that although they’re short, trying to fit them on a “plank” type of layout is problematic. Thanks that's useful advice. I'm going to print off some of the Peco paler templates to assist in planning but I see what you mean about the geometry. Actually the Peco standard Y-point might be a better bet - they are not that much longer and they might work better on a narrow plank. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 You can shorten the diverging track using a razor saw. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 3 hours ago, hartleymartin said: You can shorten the diverging track using a razor saw. That's useful Martin. Presumably bringing the track centres much closer together and also reducing the length I the points? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Yes and yes. Find yourself the printed templates and use those to figure out where best to shorten for your needs. As I recall, I think I was going to truncate the diverging line where the long point timbers end, or maybe just one sleeper after. Template PDFs here: Right Hand Point: http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/peco/track/ST-U750 plan sheet.pdf Left Hand Point: http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/peco/track/ST-U751 plan sheet.pdf This image from Tower Models website: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted February 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2019 David - have a look at my thread on here for Duddon Bridge - under 7mm scale section. We’ve used the Peco settrack points on there and shortened the diverging road quite a bit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 8 hours ago, hartleymartin said: Yes and yes. Find yourself the printed templates and use those to figure out where best to shorten for your needs. As I recall, I think I was going to truncate the diverging line where the long point timbers end, or maybe just one sleeper after. Template PDFs here: Right Hand Point: http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/peco/track/ST-U750 plan sheet.pdf Left Hand Point: http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/peco/track/ST-U751 plan sheet.pdf This image from Tower Models website: 16 minutes ago, NeilHB said: David - have a look at my thread on here for Duddon Bridge - under 7mm scale section. We’ve used the Peco settrack points on there and shortened the diverging road quite a bit. Thanks both, that is really useful. I'll print the templates you linked to Martin. I have found them invaluable in layout planning in the past. Neil, thanks for the top off. I'll have another look at your thread to see what you've done! Cheers, David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Paul is now planning successor to engima ive just sent my entry in for the small layouts vol 3, hopefully be succesful 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, sir douglas said: Paul is now planning successor to engima ive just sent my entry in for the small layouts vol 3, hopefully be succesful I look forward to seeing Paul's new layout. I am really looking forward to the third volume - I am sure you layout will be included, I have been admiring it and following here over the last couple of years. Fantastic plan for a limited space and really inspirational for us space starved modellers. Enjoy following your workbench thread too. Keep up the good work! Edited February 13, 2019 by south_tyne Spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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