Bachmann Class 221 - Super Voyager.

[atom3624]

Hi there.

 

I'm still new to this forum, so my apologies if I've posted in the wrong section.

I've a Bachmann Super Voyager.

 

It doesn't derail - as some have been known to do - but I cannot remotely compare it's performance with that of my Super Detail Hornby Class 43, or indeed Hornby Pendolino.

I believe I SHOULD be able to.

 

I received a replacement motor from Bachmann, ensured all is running smoothly, the 'dogbones' were correctly inserted, etc., perform some degree of running in, and to be honest ... extremely UNDERwhelmed!!

Bogies were greased and oiled, wheels oiled, etc. All running as well as possible.

 

Running 'light' I maxxed the new motor and it seemed quite reasonable - obviously faster than the old one.

 

It might reach a scale 60-80 mph all 5 connected using a HM2000, and on its own, the power car is definitely 8-wheel-drive and runs reasonably well, but ... sorry, the only phrase I can use is 'gutless'.

 

Are there any suitable motor transplants which can be considered ?

 

I prefer to have too much performance and tone it down, rather than have to set it on maximum, in the hope of keeping up with a 9F express freight!!

 

Yes, I understand the 'wipers' on the end cars will give some drag, it's not that much, and I'd certain anticipate a better performance than I'm seeing.

 

Al.

[Pete the Elaner]

I understand where you are coming from.

 

I have a 5-car 220 & did some timed speed runs on my layout about 2 years ago.

When running light, the motor coach managed a scale speed of 125mph forward & 130 in reverse.

When running as a 5 car set, it managed 70mph forward & 65 in reverse.

The trailer cars certainly create a lot of drag. This is fine for my layout, so I have not looked at a way to reduce this, but I would find it quite annoying if I wanted to run it flat out.

[No Decorum]

I’m hoping for a retool. If Bachmann does a retool, I’d hope that such things are attended to.

[atom3624]

I asked for and received a replacement motor - I didn't complain so it was at my cost.

Only difference was it had capacitors - I presume - soldered onto the motor which the original didn't have. The '5' remained stamped into the outer casing and all dimensions, weights, etc were identical.

 

As stated ... not what I would expect.

Viewing, its superb, of course, but I would like it to perform, basically like the Hornby Pendolino and Class 43 / HST's - the latter being the 8WD, non-tyred variety with opening doors.

 

Both Hornby items have lights, etc., so have the extra drag of blades yet can easily surpass prototypical speeds, hence I have no need to 'crank it to the max' - simply wind up to perhaps 80% throttle, giving just on scale operating speeds.

 

The idea of winding up to maximum throttle, just to approach operating speeds is not ideal - not just for the 'speed thing', but I never like to operate at full throttle anyway, for motor longevity.

 

I've got a Hornby Class 43 motor with weights and cups coming and will see if I can adapt it - and if the electronics will handle it, and if it will make any difference - a lot of what ifs, I know ... might get lucky!!

Mightn't even fit, which is probable!!

 

Al.

[GWR-fan]

I tried a remedy suggested by another member many years ago in that the spring tension on the brushes is too strong.  By reducing the spring tension I found that the motor revved higher and the set speed increased.  I tried this with success on several class 220 and 221 models.   Be careful though as the springs are minute and will vanish before your eyes when either removing or installing.  Over five sets none matched each other for speed from very slow to acceptable speed.

[atom3624]

Thanks for the tip, and understood regarding the springs - not really a serviceable item these days, the motors!!

 

I might have some luck with the alternative motor, 'though I'm not holding up much hope.

 

I would like it to be able to compete with the Hornby Pendolino and HST - they have performance to spare, which permits me to throttle back.

Taking to '11' just to approach a reasonably realistic speed is a joke, particularly considering how much they cost - and how good they look, which they definitely do!!

 

It does seem to be a 'trend' for many manufacturers to reduce the power of the motors, permitting lower power consumptions, etc., so a retool doesn't excite me too much, unfortunately.

 

Al.

[Ravenser]

The mechanisms in the Bachmann Voyager, Turbostar , and 158 were closely related , so my experiences with a Turbostar may be relevant

 

Bachmann Turbostar

 

I would be interested to know how much current your Voyager is drawing.

 

These motors ought to be drawing anywhere between 0.04A to 0.26A without lights /point motors loading the circuit. (Not much room for saving current there...)  A current draw of around 1A while static is startling ...

 

I would never have known there was an issue with my Turbostar if I hadn't given it a run on new rollers after having discovered the ammeter function on my NCE PowerCab . So I've no idea how long it has been like that - the mechanism appears to be running fine

 

My own Voyager was run hard and fast on a number of occasions when I was involved with a club project, and it did not seem sluggish in comparison with a full length Hornby Pendolino - in fact on one occasion I think we had them thrashing round in opposite directions. But it's been in storage for almost a decade as my current layout is only 8'6 long

Edited February 12, 2019 by Ravenser

[Paul13]

I had the same issue with a 220 voyager running slowly. I tried the brush spring fix but this made no difference so I then took the gear towers apart to find them full of horrible grease so I cleaned them out, applied a drop of oil and reassembled.  It now runs a lot better, faster and smoother (dcc hardwired using a lenz standard chip.  Was going to get a new motor so glad I didn't now, but they can be obtained from Bachmann spares dept for £25. Now need to get the lights working!

[TravisM]

I wonder with the retooled 158’s and 170’s with revised mechanisms due soon, I wonder if Bachmann will re-release the Class 220’s and 221’s with the same?

[Kelly]

1A stall current is a bit like the Heljan 47 in a sense.

 

a new 220/221 (maybe 222 too?) might be on Bachmann's radar for the future, but I'd expect it in a good few years or more, not anytime soon.

 

I'd also love it if they did an electrostar to complement the turbostars.

[atom3624]

Hi guys.

 

Thanks for the additional material during Sunday.

I've actually travelled temporarily to hotter, and often much wetter climes - Zambia for a couple of weeks - work, not parks!!

 

One thing I can definitely attempt is to remove the grease and lightly oil - I know I have a fair amount of grease there.

I cannot see it remotely getting close to my Pendolino's speed - that actually has had coaches flying off it's that fast, on 3rd radius!!

 

For reference I use a HM2000 which doesn't supply THAT much power, just more-than enough.

For my Super Detail HST and the Pendolino, I take them up to the step before max, which is definitely approaching a scale 125 on both - both are superb flyers.

 

Back to the top, I'll try a good clean up, ensure the driveshafts / dogbones engage well, then see if it improves.

That HST motor should have arrived at work over the weekend, so MIGHT be an option - Hornby do seem to have better motors in many locomotives.

 

Al.

[SouthernMafia]

On 12/02/2019 at 02:19, GWR-fan said:

I tried a remedy suggested by another member many years ago in that the spring tension on the brushes is too strong.  By reducing the spring tension I found that the motor revved higher and the set speed increased.  I tried this with success on several class 220 and 221 models.   Be careful though as the springs are minute and will vanish before your eyes when either removing or installing.  Over five sets none matched each other for speed from very slow to acceptable speed.

 

I wonder if this could be the problem I'm currently having with hot motors, see my post in this thread:

Can anyone share their experiences with regards to warm motors?

 

[charliepetty]

On 19/02/2019 at 10:18, atom3624 said:

Hi guys.

 

Thanks for the additional material during Sunday.

I've actually travelled temporarily to hotter, and often much wetter climes - Zambia for a couple of weeks - work, not parks!!

 

One thing I can definitely attempt is to remove the grease and lightly oil - I know I have a fair amount of grease there.

I cannot see it remotely getting close to my Pendolino's speed - that actually has had coaches flying off it's that fast, on 3rd radius!!

 

For reference I use a HM2000 which doesn't supply THAT much power, just more-than enough.

For my Super Detail HST and the Pendolino, I take them up to the step before max, which is definitely approaching a scale 125 on both - both are superb flyers.

 

Back to the top, I'll try a good clean up, ensure the driveshafts / dogbones engage well, then see if it improves.

That HST motor should have arrived at work over the weekend, so MIGHT be an option - Hornby do seem to have better motors in many locomotives.

 

Al.

The H & M 2000 Controller is a very poor controller with spikes in the current which some motors do no like.

[atom3624]

This is an old post you dug up.

There have been several versions of the HM2000 I believe.

 

The main problem is encountered by coreless / brushless motors - the 221 is most definitely an old-school brushed.

 

The power supply was not the problem here.

The 221 is known to be a poor performer and cannot approach the performance which should be expected of it.

 

Al.

[TRAILRAGE]

Strange thing is my 221 (original release) runs perfect through all speed ranges and is plenty fast enough. My 220 (also original release) is a bit slower but more so in one direction.  Never had a problem with the Motors overheating or getting hot.

 

Biggest problem is the inside bearing axles also usd on the older 158/166/168/170 Models as it causes enormous drag. Fit actual bearings to the bogies instead of relying it to run in plastic slots would help but not something i've done.  would be interesting to see if someone has though!

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

[atom3624]

Thanks TR.

 

Some have said they've not observed that much of a problem.

Perhaps I should have spend more time on the AB's of the connected carriages - I did observe quite substantial drag, particularly with the front / rear dummy power cars, with their pickups.

 

Some had mentioned to totally clean up the geared power car bogies and very lightly grease, as this is a source of drag.

 

Retrospect is a fine word, but had me thinking perhaps I could have had it moving better - never routinely saw it obtain more than perhaps 80mph scale, all 5 connected.

 

There was no comparison between my 221 and the SD Hornby HST and the Pendolino - obviously much faster, and with substantial reserves of extra power and speed.

 

Al.

[SouthernMafia]

Pleased to report that after adding the thermal pad previously mentioned in another thread there has been some improvement in the motors running hot. The motor still runs warm but it's nowhere near as bad as it was. A success I'd say. I may in time tweak the motor brushes as suggested.

 

 

Also experimenting with Hornby VEP couplings for through wiring for lighting in the driving coaches.