Wagon hoist Huddersfield

[Brian Harrap]

I have had my attention draw to the old railway warehouse at Huddersfield and particularly the wagon hoist alongside. Does anyone happen to know how, or if, the wagons were moved from the top of the hoist into the building? By the look of the configuiration this would of meant the wagons either being turned 90deg of transfered sideways. Fascinating stuff, I'd love to know, Brian. Ps looking at it again I see there's no room for turning.

[jamie92208]

Hi

 

I once walked round the building some years ago. The 2nd floor that the hoist leads to is taller than the other floors and so tall enough for wagons to move around. There was a series of wagon turntables along the front of the building that allowed wagons to be taken to any of the tracks that lead up the warehouse. There was one track across the front at right angles to the goods yard with a series of further turntables leading onto the main goods handling tracks. I believe, but am not sure that there were a series of powered capstans that allowed the wagons to be shunted with ropes.

 

Cheers

 

Jamie

[eastwestdivide]

1960s photo of it at when it was said to be still in use, so maybe the flickr user or photographer might have more info.

More photos here, with interiors: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/phill_dvsn/sets/72157620917468275/

and here: http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/Heaton%20Lodge%20Stalybridge.htm

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... I believe, but am not sure that there were a series of powered capstans that allowed the wagons to be shunted with ropes.

...

That's the most likely. The capstan could also be used to turn the small wagon turntables, reducing the labour required for that operation. If the warehouse was built early enough, the capstans are likely to have been hydraulically powered. Any evidence of a pump house and accumulator attached or close to the warehouse?

[craigwelsh]

That's the most likely. The capstan could also be used to turn the small wagon turntables, reducing the labour required for that operation. If the warehouse was built early enough, the capstans are likely to have been hydraulically powered. Any evidence of a pump house and accumulator attached or close to the warehouse?

The photo caption for mentions the hoist is hydraulic with the accumulator nearby as i'd assume capstans on the same system.

[mozzer models]

That's the most likely. The capstan could also be used to turn the small wagon turntables, reducing the labour required for that operation. If the warehouse was built early enough, the capstans are likely to have been hydraulically powered. Any evidence of a pump house and accumulator attached or close to the warehouse?

 

the power for the wagon lift came fro the res up the valley just before you get to marsden called spar res

the hydraulic power can from the high difference from the res down to huddersfield

[plarailfan]

At the top of the wagon lift, there was a wagon turntable and capstan, inside the warehouse, on one floor - the one level with the hoist, there were sidings served by wagon turntables and capstans (no points).

The accumulator room that operated the hoist is empty, but still standing today.

The use of the wagon lift seems to have declined during the 1950's, it was used less frequently, and later, rarely used, but I've not met anyone who can remember when it was last used, my guess would be, as freight traffic gradually declined, Huddersfield goods yard sidings inside, and around the warehouse at ground level, were probably able to cope with the wagons, so there would be no need to get them upstairs out of the way.

Only short wheelbase, 4 wheel wagons could physically fit on the hoist and wagon turntables. Hope this helps, it would make an interesting model, for sure.

[Hammer]

I wonder if you could do it as a two level boxfile layout?

 

Two boxs connected together for the yard and a fiddle area, with a third box on top of one of the others for the hoist to lift to.

[Stubby47]

Now that sounds like a wonderful idea for a layout

[marc smith]

Now that sounds like a wonderful idea for a layout

 

Go for it Stu,

go for it....

...I challenge you

 

Seriously though, looks great, and would be a model with a difference.

Marc

[Stubby47]

Nah, this is Brian's idea (probably he'll do it with multigauge track and a catenery system) - I've got enough to do with Polbraze, the Cement Shed and possilbly an inside transhipment shed layout...

[Brian Harrap]

Thanks to all who have passed on info about the Huddersfield warehouse/wagon hoist. So there was a wagon turntable at the top, still doesn't look like there's room. Am I going to build a layout incorporating it? Perhaps not although I might try something a bit unusual for my next project. Watch this space as they say. It may be surprising what turns up. Thanks again one and all, Brian.

[macgeordie]

I've just come across this thread while I was searching the forum for information on the wagon lift. Does anybody know how the hydraulic (water powered) lift actually lifted the platform with the wagon. The chains at either end were for lifting and lowering the baulks at either end of the lift which blocked the track when the platform was at the top to stop anything falling into the hole left by the raised platform, they had nothing to do with the actual lifting or lowering action.

 

As the lift was hydraulic there was probably a large diameter cylinder of some description under the platform to carry out the lift but it couldn't really be a single cylinder as the total lift is about 26 feet. I can only think that the cylinder was built up of concentric cylinders like a telescope so the depth of the hole under the platform would then be much smaller.

 

Can anybody shed any further light on the subject and/or offer any evidence as to how the lift actually worked?

 

I'm currently working on a set of plans for my new layout and want to include a large section of the goods shed and wagon lift in one corner and I would like to make the lift operational so I need to know what was under the platform when it is raised.

 

The shed was built by the L&Y so I wonder if the L&Y society have any drawings, Do we have any forum members who are members of the L&Y society who could enquire if this is the case?

 

Ian

[uax6]

I'm guessing they looked a bit like the ones at Bishopsgate http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/b/bishopsgate_goods_station/index.shtml

 

Andy G

[RexAshton]

This thread has got the juices flowing. I've been pondering another Inglenook and something like this would add extra interest. I would be very interested if anyone did have info as to whether a wagon turntable was built into the lift to rotate the wagons through 90 degrees.

[timbowilts]

Looking at the OP's picture, with walls on three sides the turntable was most likely inside the warehouse through the doors?

[Fat Controller]

Looking at the OP's picture, with walls on three sides the turntable was most likely inside the warehouse through the doors?

That wouldn't work, as you'd have to find a way of making the wagon move sideways into the warehouse to turn it.

[uax6]

That wouldn't work, as you'd have to find a way of making the wagon move sideways into the warehouse to turn it.

Not so, the track into the hoist runs parallel to the main railway, so to pull (with rope and capstan) the wagon into the covered building and then onto a turntable is quite easy. Once on the turntable the wagon then turns 90* to allow it to be pulled into the main warehouse, were presumably the is a raft of turntables to get it to where it was required....

 

Andy G

[Fat Controller]

Not so, the track into the hoist runs parallel to the main railway, so to pull (with rope and capstan) the wagon into the covered building and then onto a turntable is quite easy. Once on the turntable the wagon then turns 90* to allow it to be pulled into the main warehouse, were presumably the is a raft of turntables to get it to where it was required....

 

Andy G

I think we're saying the same thing; the wagon enters the lift at 90 degrees to the exit track on the first floor, so would have to be turned before leaving the lift.

[macgeordie]

According to one of the L&Y books I have the wagon was taken into the top of the lift and then moved via a traverser to the selected line with associated platform inside the main building. A friend of mine (sadly now deceased) worked in the shed in the 1960's and told me the same thing. According to him by this time almost all of the traffic going into the building was animal feed.

The only turntables he mentioned were the ones at ground level at the side of the building.

 

Ian

[RexAshton]

According to one of the L&Y books I have the wagon was taken into the top of the lift and then moved via a traverser to the selected line with associated platform inside the main building. A friend of mine (sadly now deceased) worked in the shed in the 1960's and told me the same thing. According to him by this time almost all of the traffic going into the building was animal feed.

The only turntables he mentioned were the ones at ground level at the side of the building.

 

Ian

That makes sense. It'd be a challenge to move the wagons without the hand of God though. High Level Kits Flyshunter would work on the lift and into the upper floor but not easy to push around at ground level with a loco. Maybe simulated capstans would be the only way.

[macgeordie]

That makes sense. It'd be a challenge to move the wagons without the hand of God though. High Level Kits Flyshunter would work on the lift and into the upper floor but not easy to push around at ground level with a loco. Maybe simulated capstans would be the only way.

Hi Rex

 

I looked at the option of the 'High Level Kits' flyshunter chassis kit myself, but at nearly 50 quid a pop I'm a bit reluctant to go down that route. I was thinking of shunting as normal with Kadee couplings on the wagons and fitting a couple of those small circular but very strong magnets to line up with the wheel position on the platform, buried under the sleepers. That should hold the wagon in position as the lift goes up. If you use the Flyshunter chassis you would need to electrify the track on the lift to allow it to move, not a big deal, but another job to sort out.

I'm exhibiting Kirkby Stephen at Chapel-en-le-Frith next weekend, so I might see you there and we can have a chat about it all.

 

Ian

[RexAshton]

Hi Rex

 

I looked at the option of the 'High Level Kits' flyshunter chassis kit myself, but at nearly 50 quid a pop I'm a bit reluctant to go down that route. I was thinking of shunting as normal with Kadee couplings on the wagons and fitting a couple of those small circular but very strong magnets to line up with the wheel position on the platform, buried under the sleepers. That should hold the wagon in position as the lift goes up. If you use the Flyshunter chassis you would need to electrify the track on the lift to allow it to move, not a big deal, but another job to sort out.

I'm exhibiting Kirkby Stephen at Chapel-en-le-Frith next weekend, so I might see you there and we can have a chat about it all.

 

Ian

HI Ian

 

Look forward to the conversation. See you at weekend.

[macgeordie]

I still haven't found out how the lift mechanism operated on this lift, but in an earlier post, I said it was built by the L&Y, this is wrong, it was built by the LNWR, the L&Y shed stands adjacent to this one and is much smaller and is made of Yorkshire stone rather than brick. It is clearly visible in the first of the photos below. Once the sheds were built, the L&Y and the LNWR carried out shunting work in the yard itself on a six month on and six months off rota.

 

Perhaps one of our members who is in the LNWR Society could shed some light on how this lift worked.

 

Below are some photos I took of the lift in 2010 when I first mooted the idea of building a layout based on this shed. There is no obvious method of how the lift worked, the remains of the trackbed and platform have completely disappeared.

 

 

 

The above two photos show the space where the platform would have ended up once lifted. These were taken from the windows of what is now an office, but would have been the space into which the wagon would have been drawn where the traverser sat.

 

 

 

The above two photos show what I believe to be one of the guide rails for the platform, note the hardened grease all the way up the face.

 

 

 

The last two photos show the heavy wooden baulks which were used to stop a wagon either falling into the hole where the mechanism was situated when the platform was raised, and the last photo shows the baulk which would prevent a wagon rolling off the traverser and into the open space when the platform was down. All the Baulks seem to chain operated and the large frame carries the chains for the latter baulk.

 

Ian

[Judge Dread]

Take a look at www.britainfromabove.org.uk/ , reference Title The town centre, Huddersfield, 1934

Image reference EPW045315

Date July 1934

You get a clear view of the hoist.

I hope this helps.