jonny777 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) I have acquired some spotting notes from the 1960s, but the first pages I looked at seemed very unusual (if not highly unlikely) to me. The date is given as August 1964 and the location is 16A Nottingham, and the handwriting is very clear and neat. However, some of the locos seen are not quite what I would expect. I repeat the list here in the order they appear in the notebook:- 48635 48127 92019 75064 45277 63806 44132 78020 44158 48639 48064 44472 48666 43870 44223 48205 44248 90391 43835 75062 48604 92094 45649 44658 42587 75022 75055 42054 75063 78028 45454 46100 44030 42140 92076 45561 40079 40165 92124 76044 42790 48065 48696 48323 48099 48675 48377 43888 44577 43953 44195 43928 48170 48624 48217 44578 43917 43918 48069 48393 43958 78021 44033 48763 47631 Now, I understand that at this time there was a wholesale withdrawal of steam locos as diesels (especially the EE3s and Brush4s) took over; and that many sheds had multiple lines of redundant engines awaiting a tow to scrapyards - as seems to be the case with 8Fs here; but the number which surprises me is 46100. There is no difference between this and any other entry on the page, and yet according to all official records 46100 had been on static display at Butlins Skegness for a year. I am aware that it swapped identity in the 1930s, but I would not have thought anyone would see 46152 and write down its original number without putting the cabside number in brackets; and anyway in Aug 64 46152 was a Holyhead loco so unlikely to be at Nottingham. This is something of a mystery, and I don't know what the answer is. The Nottingham visit seems to be part of a trawl around sheds in that area, and would anyone get the year wrong by late summer? January maybe, but not August. Edited March 5, 2019 by jonny777 heading change Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 46100 was a Nott'm engine from August 1961 to its withdrawal in October 1962. Maybe in store pending a decision on its future. Edit -Oops, forgot about the Butlins connection. Could it've been 46500, which was a Derby engine at this period? Edited February 17, 2019 by Peter Kazmierczak 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) It is shown on the BR database as allocated to Nottingham, 16A in 1961 and withdrawn from there in 1962 (and according to Wiki went to Butlins in 1963). Could the number have been an error for one of the GC 'Scots' which were still at Annesley in 1964. Or could the date be wrong as 63806, definitely an Annesley engine was also withdrawn in 1962 Edited February 17, 2019 by The Stationmaster Update re 63806 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I think Mike might've cracked it, as the Standard Class 4s (75XXX) were transferred away from Nott'm in September 1962. So maybe this is August 1962. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just another thought. Nottingham was recoded from 16A to 16D in September 1963. By August 1964, Toton was 16A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Thanks folks. You could be right, because 40079 was cut up in Dec 1962. Mind you, some of the locos don't fit for either year. 47631 was Agecroft in 1962 and Skipton in 1964 (I tend to look at the smaller locos because they were unlikely to stray too far). 75022 was Oxford in 1962 and Bristol Barrow Rd in 1964, and there is no evidence it was allocated any closer to Nottingham in its 12 year life-span. Basically, I am going to have to treat these notes with a high degree of suspicion - which is a shame as they probably contain some useful info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Oh dear, this is not good at all. The next depot after the Nottingham visit is Staveley GC, but that is listed as 38D; which it had been up to 1958. From then until closure in 1965, it was 41H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 47631 was a Nottm engine until July 1958. 46100 (which I think it now is) was at Nottm from November 1959 until withdrawal, except for a couple of months at Derby in 1961. Good job they didn't think 44472 was the "Flying Scotsman"..... Edited February 17, 2019 by Peter Kazmierczak 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Maybe these are not list of locos seen on a particular visit, but ones seen at each shed since this person took up trainspotting? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Well, in for a penny - in for a pound; as they say. Here is a list of locos purportedly seen at Bo'ness Docks Scrap Line in June 1964. This list includes engines which were said to have been cut up a year or more earlier. (Could it be that the withdrawal and scrapping dates listed on the internet are all wrong?). 67619 68479 40158 62496 68119 69014 64472 64545 57314 67676 67632 68454 64515 64518 64535 57287 62052 57366 69183 57338 62031 57245 64477 57470 64532 67625 40200 57285 68472 40154 57576 40177 69126 62691 69163 68448 67626 69131 69181 69137 65230 62693 67655 67622 69191 67611 67614 65280 90436 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Royal Scot sat unused alongside Nottingham shed for many months, almost like a gate guardian. The story was it had cracked frames and, as such, couldn't be used. No idea if that was true or just spotters rumour. It's possible that various Annesley locos could turn up at Nottingham for repair as it was the major shed for the district since Annesley was subsumed in the great LMR line grab, previously the major shed had been Colwick. Interesting about Bo'Ness docks as well. As a 10 year old in 1963 I went, along with my parents, on a massive shed bash around Glasgow and Edinburgh. We travelled in a friends Bedford CA minibus and stayed in a hotel which introduced me to the 'nice' way the Scots do porridge, with salt Yuck! As part of this expedition our friend was chasing his last Duchess 46230 Duchess of Buccleuch (SP?) which he had heard was at Bo'Ness dump. When we arrived there was nothing at all, this makes me wonder if we were even in the right place? We did see may stored locos along the way including the first five Clans and the 'final' batch of 8Fs including 48773 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Thanks Great Central, that is most interesting. I have looked through the rest of the notes, but so far have found nothing on stored Clans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, jonny777 said: Thanks Great Central, that is most interesting. I have looked through the rest of the notes, but so far have found nothing on stored Clans. They were at a shed, I forget which one, which seemed to be out of use otherwise. I still have the notes, written by my dad, somewhere Also recall watching an ancient 0-6-0 pushing coal wagons up to a coaling stage, several attempts and retreats back down the yard before they got to the top of the ramp. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, jonny777 said: Thanks Great Central, that is most interesting. I have looked through the rest of the notes, but so far have found nothing on stored Clans. 14 minutes ago, great central said: They were at a shed, I forget which one, which seemed to be out of use otherwise. I still have the notes, written by my dad, somewhere The Polmadie Clans were first stored at Polmadie itself, then at Parkhead shed, which no longer had an allocation of its own. Edited February 17, 2019 by pH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagrizz Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Regarding the incorrect shed codes, perhaps he was using an old Ian Allan book where the shed codes were not up to date. Not everyone used the latest editions. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 14 hours ago, jonny777 said: Well, in for a penny - in for a pound; as they say. Here is a list of locos purportedly seen at Bo'ness Docks Scrap Line in June 1964. This list includes engines which were said to have been cut up a year or more earlier. (Could it be that the withdrawal and scrapping dates listed on the internet are all wrong?). 67619 68479 40158 62496 68119 69014 64472 64545 57314 67676 67632 68454 64515 64518 64535 57287 62052 57366 69183 57338 62031 57245 64477 57470 64532 67625 40200 57285 68472 40154 57576 40177 69126 62691 69163 68448 67626 69131 69181 69137 65230 62693 67655 67622 69191 67611 67614 65280 90436 The date is definitely wrong. I count 49 engines in that list. I can't find any information I would consider reliable for 16 of them. Information that I think is reasonably reliable says that 33 were at Bo'ness at some time. 20 had left before April 1963. 13 on that list were still there in April 1963, but I don't know how long they would have stayed after that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 And yet, why would someone walk around a scrap line group of locos writing down numbers which were not there? It all seems bizarre. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 These notes go back quite a way. This purports to be the result of an hour or two at Harrogate on 14th May 1956 61086 61310 61421 61431 61478 62736 62740 62752 62759 62762 62763 62773 62774 64706 64818 64821 64835 64845 64847 64855 64857 64859 64866 64867 64942 64944 65673 68392 69430 90014 90044 90465 E79502 E79002 This may have included a Starbeck visit, although there is no mention on the page. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) On the same day; 14th May 1956, my man visited Doncaster. The station produced, 13131 64209 47300 47429 60131 60539 61026 61047 61155 61174 61194 61213 61318 61327 61374 61452 61652 61804 61945 62660 63698 63722 63775 63800 63943 63945 64344 64451 64906 67391 68491 68527 69277 69535 69800 68974 70003 90066 92035 92042 92071 E79021 E79613 E79062 E79278 Next was The Plant, 11894 43076 60010 60019 60020 60033 60039 60047 60064 60078 60092 60120 60129 60155 60156 60523 60527 60538 60842 60870 61087 61097 61120 61125 61166 61203 61208 61231 61243 61331 61600 61602 61606 61633 61647 61840 61846 61948 61951 61974 61997 62034 62043 62044 62069 62070 63930 63947 64188 64196 64234 67384 68022 68181 68845 68903 68906 68912 69477 69529 69581 76020 Finally the loco shed, 41779 43069 43139 48090 60016 60048 60055 60067 60109 60112 60117 60142 60149 60157 60533 60700 60841 60849 60852 60856 60859 60870 60872 60876 60896 60911 60935 60956 61107 61121 61122 61124 61127 61128 61158 61170 61171 61193 61196 61247 61250 61417 61424 61477 61804 61826 61886 61945 62023 62051 62767 63653 63935 63952 63956 63962 63964 63974 63976 63977 63978 63981 63987 64193 64232 64236 64258 64261 64285 64296 64376 64407 64737 64757 64825 64838 64966 64972 67367 68020 68507 68621 68761 68778 68811 68835 68836 68853 68869 68938 69474 90042 90083 90085 90224 90305 90383 90394 90469 90532 90537 90603 90636 90674 92068 92070 92073 92076 Those were the days.... Edited February 20, 2019 by jonny777 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Withdrawn engines could live on scrap lines for quite a while. The case I have in mind is De Robeck, a Jubilee which did not show up in my "Combined" - and there was a lag between those being prepared and them appearing in one's hand. Anyway, I saw the engine and was deeply puzzled by its absence from the printed data. It lived on Edgeley's scrap line for what seemed like an eternity - maybe a couple of years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Ah, the famous 45678, one we all coveted for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Log from SW England Saturday 7th July 1962 Note: Many of the locos are steam (I have added any names here to avoid any confusion) and not all had reporting numbers. The early hydraulics were without 4-character headcodes. I can’t vouch for all the headcodes/ train destinations being correct. I have simply transcribed what is written down. Comments/corrections are welcome. PAIGNTON D840 2C91 Kingswear 0930 5154 Paignton pilot D6329 + D818 1N37 Devonian 0935 Our anonymous spotter seems to have travelled on this train as far as Newton Abbot. TORQUAY 0945 D831 NEWTON ABBOT arr 0957 D6349 D4160 D823 PWM652 D4014 D3513 D841 1M91 0640 Penzance to Liverpool 6826 ’Nannerth Grange’ 1V86 Manchester to Penzance - D6339 added as pilot. 34107 ‘Blandford Forum’ arr 1014 D824 on through service to Paddington pass 1021 D7026 dep 1023 on 1018 Newton Abbot to Bradford D811 reporting no C58 passed at Dawlish Warren 1050 Exeter arr 1111 EXETER ST DAVIDS 3659 D2182 D4129 1466 1470 5944 5555 7316 5412 4037 W50090 W59090 W50132 D7015 dn main 1113 D802 up main 1116 D846 1C25 to Penzance 1117 4933 ‘Himley Hall’ Cardiff to Plymouth 1124 34080 ’74 Squadron’ from SR 1125 deg 1134 to Barnstaple D7027 1F30 1015 Paignton to Carmarthen 1126 D831 1A49 1040 Torquay to Paddington 1129 D850 1C60 to Paignton 1133 34020 ’Seaton’ local to Ilfracombe 1137 D7017 1H22 1005 Kingswear to Wolverhampton 1139 D7003 1C64 1142 D805 Plymouth to Manchester 1146 34096 ’Trevone’ Surbiton to Okehampton Car Carrier 1147 (a new one for me) D863 1A51 1100 Paignton to Paddington through 1149 D843 Paddington to Falmouth 1150 34081 ’92 Squadron’ Exeter to Waterloo - banked by 30956 1155 34108 ‘Wincanton’ to Plymouth 1158 D817 1C70 to Paignton through 1206 34033 ‘Chard’ Plymouth to Portsmouth - banked by 30954 1207 D7021 1V26 to Paignton 1209 D7000 1M93 1045 Kingswear to Manchester 1210 D816 1A65 to Paddington 1211 30955 + 30956 return 1213 34106 ‘Lydford’ up ACE - banked by 30956 1220 D870 up through 1227 6919 ’Tylney Hall’ 1C23 Cornishman 1230 34078 ‘222 Squadron’ up ACE - banked by 30955 1233 D7006 1M23 to Nottingham 1234 D840 1A66 1240 D862 1C29 to Newquay 1241 34058 ’Sir Frederick Pile’ up Brighton 1245 D817 1C59 to Paignton 1251 1466 dep to Dulverton 1252 D7018 1V27 to Paignton 1256 D845 to Paddington 1257 34024 ’Tamar Valley’ to Plymouth 1305 31843 to Central 1307 6025 ‘King Henry III’ are 1311 service terminated D811 to Paddington 1316 D851 to Kingswear 1324 34023 ‘Blackmore Vale’ Ilfracombe to Waterloo - banked by 30955 + 30956 1325 D7016 to Cardiff 1326 D828 up Cornish Riviera 1334 D800 to Paddington 1338 D854 1V48 1341 34002. ’Salisbury’ to Waterloo - banked by 30956 1347 D809 1C35 to Penzance 1349 D7011 1M97 Kingswear to Manchester 1350 D7007 to Kingswear 1352 34076 ’41 Squadron’ local to Ilfracombe 1353 D855 up Cornish Riviera 1356 5034 ‘Corfe Castle’ 1C34 to Penzance through 1400 D848 1V31 to Plymouth 1409 34081 ’92 Squadron’ to Padstow 1410 D7015 1H31 Paignton to Wolverhampton 1413 34015 to Waterloo 1416 1466 from Tiverton 1417 4087 ‘Cardigan Castle’ A83 Paignton to Paddington 1420 D865 1C78 to Paignton 1421 D1003 1C33 to Penzance 1431 D827 1C36 to Penzance 1433 D836 1A86 to Paddington 1437 D7008 1V33 to Paignton 1442 31834 to Waterloo 1447 9633 arr parcels, loco to yard 1450 34074 ’46 Squadron’ to Ilfracombe 1456 D829 1C91 Torbay Express through 1457 D835 1M96 to Manchester 1458 34058 ’Sir Frederick Pile’ from Plymouth 1504 D850 1A92 to Paddington 1508 D7019 1C79 Wolverhampton to Paignton 1510 D818 1H34 to Wolverhampton 1514 D838 1C37 to Newquay 1521 D822 1H37 to Wolverhampton through 1529 D820 1V88 Manchester to Plymouth 1530 D7003 + D867 1N87 to York 1531 1466 from Tiverton 1535 D839 1F59 to Swansea 1539 D849 1A03 to Paddington through 1553 30956 + 34068 to Ilfracombe and Torrington 1600 5001 ‘Llandovery Castle’ C39 to Plymouth 1601 D817 1A11 to Paddington through 1607 D7026 1V89 to Paignton 1609 31833 to Central 1611 D864 1C84 to Paignton 1618 D807 up Royal Duchy 1619 34051 ‘Winston Churchill’ to Waterloo 1625 34015 ‘Exmouth’ Brighton to Plymouth 1626 D826 1V92 to Paignton 1629 D837 1H44 Paignton to Wolverhampton 1629 34096 ’Trevone’ Okehampton to Surbiton Car Carrier - banked by 30956 1633 D805 Newcastle to Paignton 1635 D869 1T41 to Cardiff 1639 30125 l/e to Central 1642 34011 ’Tavistock’ to Plymouth 1648 D7017 1V39 Devonian to Paignton 1653 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 What surprised me from the above, were the number of Hymeks around in South Devon at that time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Peter Kazmierczak said: What surprised me from the above, were the number of Hymeks around in South Devon at that time. They were all based at Bath Road or Canton. Many trains from the Midlands and north changed locos at Bristol. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Enthusiasts Society visit to Crewe Works 5th April 1956 12005 12009 12012 12034 12046 12048 12051 13019 13034 13055 13100 40069 40080 40108 40461 40646 41000 41180 41225 41241 41249 41283 41901 42148 42227 42267 42309 42312 42415 42442 42452 42487 42492 42546 42562 42566 42595 42615 42629 42814 42856 43231 43286 43308 43839 43876 44027 44490 44492 44517 44694 44709 44740 44771 44819 44832 44873 44982 45004 45052 45062 45109 45111 45143 45144 45196 45299 45304 45311 45344 45353 45385 45422 45439 45563 45584 45636 45646 45648 45717 46104 46110 46209 46232 46238 46242 46246 46423 46458 47286 47384 47431 47592 47649 47653 47862 47992 48089 48120 48438 48453 48659 48671 48922 49105 49122 49198 49229 49275 49330 51412 51444 51446 52207 52312 52439 56032 58178 58182 70049 72004 73072 80065 90201 90206 90265 90267 90326 90392 90673 90711 92020 92021 92080* 92081* 92082* 92084* 92098# 92099# M79642 M28248M M28280M M28290M *= under construction #= new frames only Edited February 23, 2019 by jonny777 forgot to add extra detail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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