Pace Yourself - photos of the final(?) Pacer countdown

[brushman47544]

I might actually use one when they're turned into razor blades.

[Market65]

Trouble with the 142’s is that they look so angry all the time owing to

the cab end design. Admittedly the 144’s are much more pleasant in that respect.

 

Rob.

[Reorte]

35 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

I might actually use one when they're turned into razor blades.

I won't, if the razors bounce around in a similar manner!

[Coryton]

On 18/02/2019 at 23:09, Ramblin Rich said:

Pretending to be an HST? 'Delusions of adequacy'

Did not know you could get seat reservations in a Pacer

 

Those seat reservations are for a 2x5 IET, surely?

[eastwestdivide]

As it turns out I didn't entirely ignore them when they were new - here's a few from the 2nd half of the 1980s, after which I stopped taking photos for a good few years.

 

142001 in orange at Manchester Victoria:

 

142004 also at Manchester Victoria, alongside a Bury unit:

 

Another orange one, possibly 142009, near Edale:

 

144 (early WYPTE Metro-Train livery)/142 (Regional Railways livery) combination probably on a Morecambe-Leeds working, at Hellifield:

 

Chocolate and cream on a 'Skipper' 142at Dawlish. Hope the doors were watertight:

Edited February 21, 2019 by eastwestdivide

[Bucoops]

It seems I did take some photos once. This was Hull mid 90s I guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Market65]

I don’t recognise exactly where in Hull those photo’s were taken. Have you anymore info about them please?

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

[Invicta]

On ‎19‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 13:44, Reorte said:

I don't hate them. There's something almost pleasantly unpolished about bouncing along in one. Just as long as it's only something done infrequently. Very infrequently.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a few end up rattling up and down preserved lines.

 

Maybe the NRM will claim one, if only as a warning to future generations....

[Northmoor]

37 minutes ago, Invicta said:

 

Maybe the NRM will claim one, if only as a warning to future generations....

They have already preserved LEV1; I like to think it should represent, "sometimes it's important to know when to STOP".

[Coryton]

4 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

They have already preserved LEV1; I like to think it should represent, "sometimes it's important to know when to STOP".

 

I think in taking a view as to whether building Pacers was a good decision or not it's necessary to look at what the alternative would have been.

 

Could BR have found the money to build the same capacity from something better (more Sprinters perhaps)?

 

Could they have just kept the 1st generation DMUs running for longer?

 

I don't know, though I expect there are people here who do have a good idea.

 

The only other country I'm aware of that went for 4-wheel railcars at (roughly) that time was Czechoslovakia (plus exports to Hungary). They are somewhat shorter wheelbase though, I think.

[Bucoops]

7 hours ago, Market65 said:

I don’t recognise exactly where in Hull those photo’s were taken. Have you anymore info about them please?

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

 

It would have been Paragon station - this was on the same film when I visited my brother at uni.

 

 

[31A]

9 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

I think in taking a view as to whether building Pacers was a good decision or not it's necessary to look at what the alternative would have been.

 

Could BR have found the money to build the same capacity from something better (more Sprinters perhaps)?

 

Could they have just kept the 1st generation DMUs running for longer?

 

I don't know, though I expect there are people here who do have a good idea.

 

The only other country I'm aware of that went for 4-wheel railcars at (roughly) that time was Czechoslovakia (plus exports to Hungary). They are somewhat shorter wheelbase though, I think.

 

I think had they not been built, there would have been line closures.  I'm sure BR would have preferred to build more Sprinter-type DMUs (or even the diesel-electric Class 210 type) but were prevented from doing so by Government budgetary constraints.  Despite some good refurbishment work a decade or so earlier, the first generation DMUs really were well past their sell by date by the time they finished!

[Owd Bob]

I suppose they filled a gap at the time and no matter how rough the ride was is they got you from A to B. Wonder if the preservationist would have any? Another from yesterdays efforts at Crows Nest Junc' Hindley Station is in the distance. 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by Owd Bob

[Steven B]

It will be interesting to see how many get preserved (and what the asking price is!).

 

I've often wondered how well they'd have done if they'd run as an articulated set on three bogies.

[Titan]

I always thought it was a shame they were not built as single car bogie units, similar to class 153. How do the running costs of a 153 compare to a pacer? Having half the engines and transmissions must help quite a bit!

[brushman47544]

1 hour ago, Steven B said:

It will be interesting to see how many get preserved (and what the asking price is!).

 

Presumably scrap value as they have no residual value as a rail vehicle for use on the UK Network. I found a Leyland Olympian on sale for £4,500, so two of them equals £9,000. But that's a double decker, so perhaps less?

Edited February 22, 2019 by brushman47544

['CHARD]

12 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

 

Presumably scrap value as they have no residual value as a rail vehicle for use on the UK Network.

 

Transmissions and final drives in decent nick would have potential further use in the Sprinter fleet.

[Owd Bob]

SWMBO wanted to do some shopping in our local town of Westhoughton this afternoon, so i got her to drop me off at Daisy Hill station on the way for an hour. Here is one pic' i think a lot would want to see of these units on top of a pile of rubbish!  Actually it's platform lengthening works and there's a lot of tree lopping  going on all along the Southern embankments working Eastwards towards Hag Fold Station, Atherton .

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:

 

Presumably scrap value as they have no residual value as a rail vehicle for use on the UK Network. I found a Leyland Olympian on sale for £4,500, so two of them equals £9,000. But that's a double decker, so perhaps less?

 

Not so long ago, there were Bristol VRs on sale for £750.

[Northmoor]

20 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

I think in taking a view as to whether building Pacers was a good decision or not it's necessary to look at what the alternative would have been.

 

Could BR have found the money to build the same capacity from something better (more Sprinters perhaps)?

 

Could they have just kept the 1st generation DMUs running for longer?

 

I don't know, though I expect there are people here who do have a good idea.

 

The only other country I'm aware of that went for 4-wheel railcars at (roughly) that time was Czechoslovakia (plus exports to Hungary). They are somewhat shorter wheelbase though, I think.

I completely understand the context they were built in.  Government policy of 3 for 2 on DMU replacement was particularly short-sighted as by the time these units were ordered, Provincial Sector traffic was already rising.  There was an (out of date) assumption that rail traffic would continue to decline off the major routes.  This is probably why ordering Pacers was permitted, they were cheap so it was assumed that it wouldn't be too embarrassing to withdraw them after a decade when the rural routes they were built for, had closed.  There were still lots of 1st Gen DMUs around by the late 80s, because there was traffic for them.

What was also ridiculous was the insistence on multiple suppliers, which is why there so many different classes; really there should have been only three larger builds: 14x, 150/2 and 156 (and 158s a bit later).

 

[phil-b259]

On 20/02/2019 at 22:13, Mark Saunders said:

Given the amount of  work on the Northern 142’s by the leasing company on floors and suspension I can’t see them being scrapped in the near future!

 

Its important to note that in this environmentally conscious day & age - scrapping things (in the UK at least) is a pretty expensive exercise with all manor of materials (not just the hazardous / contaminated stuff) having to be separated out and recycled / disposed of correctly.

 

Thus it wouldn't surprise me if some of these pacers were sold overseas to a non EU country ostensibly for further use thus relieving the leasing company from having to pay the heightened scraping costs in the UK / EU

[south_tyne]

We've still got plenty of them up in the North East - I see them daily passing trough Boldon. 

 

They get a terrible press, and obviously have flaws, but to be fair they have been workhorses up here and have given fantastic service. 

 

They could become ideal low cost, low maintainance traction for some of the smaller heritage railways,  particularly out of the peak season...

 

I wonder who will be the first to suggest a Pacer Preservation Society! 

[Coryton]

8 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

I wonder who will be the first to suggest a Pacer Preservation Society! 

 

Actually there was one a few years ago (with that exact name) but it disappeared.

 

Make of that what you will.

 

There are preserved 141s already and indeed the 140 too so I'd hope we could hang onto some examples of Pacers as well.

 

Like them or not, they are an important part of railway history in the UK and it is to their credit that they are going because standards have moved on, not because they have become unreliable with age.

 

[Coryton]

12 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Thus it wouldn't surprise me if some of these pacers were sold overseas to a non EU country ostensibly for further use thus relieving the leasing company from having to pay the heightened scraping costs in the UK / EU.

 

Does Iran need any more trains, I wonder?

[Welly]

6 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

Does Iran need any more trains, I wonder?

I don't think they were thrilled with their last purchase....

 

By the way, if anyone wants a picture of Pacers on the Sheffield - Lincoln line, I think they only work this route on Sundays at the moment.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Welly